CanadianSoccerFan Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 F' the CFL! The Argos made their bed and now they've gotta sleep in it. I don't wanna see this stadium have massive space behind the goals just so there's room for CFL endzones. Let's have a a stadium like tynecastle in scotland where you can almost touch the back of the net from the front row and maybe throw in a little bit of terracing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Funny that Jay Onrait made a joke about MLS stating that they were going to show the top 10 MLS Teams. The problem was that they all folded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Funny that Jay Onrait made a joke about MLS stating that they were going to show the top 10 MLS Teams. The problem was that they all folded. I didn't find that funny at all, with the exception of his total lack of knowledge of the MLS that was comical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 When I got home and heard this story on the radio, then televsion, and this morining in the newspapers; each time the the central point of each report was the awarding of an MLS franchise to Toronto. Yet the focus of the stories posted here is the impoosing of the deadline. MLSE and TO has been awarded a franchise in MLS and its now official. Interesting bit of news in todays report in the Star. Its states that the TO team may be given more manoevering room as far as Salary cap because of the smaller talent pool in canada. That is really good news given the number of players that we have in the places like tier 2 england. This means that the teams will have a better chance to lure some of them back. That was what I was hoping for after the yteams is awarded to canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by matthew How does MLS look bad if Toronto can't produce a stadium with a massively rich owner/operator apparently looking to chip in if needed and a good chunk of change from two levels of government and a major international event to host? I don't recall ever suggesting that they would look bad. Are you sure this question wasn't meant for somebody else? Its all down to the City right now according to today's Toronto Star article, if they screw it up the City of Toronto will be the ones to look bad, and nobody else. Everyone else has done there bit. quote: There has been a lot of talk of Philly, Seattle, Houston, Cleveland and Milwaukee (and SA and Rochester) as expansion sites, so it's not like this is out of the hat and I think Houston and either Philly or Seattle could take Toronto's spot by 07 without too much trouble. I'm skeptical of that for the moment, but I guess we'll see soon enough. The deadline may be real but I think its artificially imposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary Boomer Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by CanadianSoccerFan F' the CFL! The Argos made their bed and now they've gotta sleep in it. I don't wanna see this stadium have massive space behind the goals just so there's room for CFL endzones. Let's have a a stadium like tynecastle in scotland where you can almost touch the back of the net from the front row and maybe throw in a little bit of terracing. Bang on GL! And screw the idea of putting a "stage" at one end. It's all good for soccer. The deadline will allow (and force) MLSE to pull some strings and get it done, the stadium will get done and Toronto will pave the way for Vancouver and Montreal. Having a big sports company like MLSE investing in soccer is a GREAT thing. Go Metro Blizzard FC! But, no matter what the stadium looks like...it won't be anything close to Vancouver's. Had a wee look last night... WOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Free kick When I got home and heard this story on the radio, then televsion, and this morining in the newspapers; each time the the central point of each report was the awarding of an MLS franchise to Toronto. Yet the focus of the stories posted here is the impoosing of the deadline. MLSE and TO has been awarded a franchise in MLS and its now official. Interesting bit of news in todays report in the Star. Its states that the TO team may be given more manoevering room as far as Salary cap because of the smaller talent pool in canada. That is really good news given the number of players that we have in the places like tier 2 england. This means that the teams will have a better chance to lure some of them back. That was what I was hoping for after the yteams is awarded to canada Well the media have certainly painted the story as a much more positive development than the panic-stricken posters on this board, that's true, but none of them have gone as far as saying that its "official" that we have the team. That will happen once the stadium is finally official. I also found that comment in Jim Byers article to be very interesting, not sure how much the rest of the league is going to like that. Also that Peddie was apparently worried that the Toronto team might be a bit weaker than the rest of the league initially with "11 out of 18" players Canadian until that extra spending money was confirmed for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 What exactly is this "Salt Lake example" that is supposed to help the Lynx? quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca IIRC the only thing up for debate still is the City's pledge of cash which has to be voted upon by council on October 26th. Not a lot of room between then & Halloween, so I guess this is extra pressure for the governments to not dick-around. No-one wants to be the cause of the loss of the stadium, the MLS team & the WYC in the city, so they have to work things out now or suffer humiliation & embarassment. Let's be honest, there's about a billion things more important than a soccer stadium. Besides the 100 people on this board, nobody else cares about the stadium. Nobody is going to "suffer humiliation & embarassment". But they will suffer if they get into an other SkyDome deal. quote:Originally posted by Andrew W MLS one step closer to Toronto Canadian Press The Exhibition Place board of governors has to approve the project, and several levels of City Council have to give a green light to $9.5 million in promised funding at meetings that start Oct. 26. As land-owner, the City of Toronto would own the stadium. The City would own the land, not the stadium. And actually, if they did own the stadium, that's an other huge roadblock cause who would cover the annual losses and upkeep? quote:Originally posted by Andrew W MLS one step closer to Toronto Canadian Press ''Don's been great,'' said Peddie. ''He gave us a deadline in June, July, August, September, Oct. 1. And I think he's given us his final deadline. He's not trying to play brinkmanship. From what I can tell, he's got other choices.'' So much for deadlines. quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Well the media have certainly painted the story as a much more positive development than the panic-stricken posters on this board, that's true, but none of them have gone as far as saying that its "official" that we have the team. That will happen once the stadium is finally official. I was actualy going to ask you people who believe this, um stuff, nowhere does it say that MLSE and MLS have an official agreement, obviously based on the stadium being a done deal. Why not announce it? Granted, they don't want to make it look like it's an other publically funded stadium for MLSE, but that's how it looks like anyway (you don't need a whole new stadium for 3 weeks). And, um, they still need to come up with more money. Unless they already have found it. But once again, then it would make sense to announce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I just read the Byers article online. It's simple but does lay out a good timeline in terms of the city's deliberation process. It will be an interesting month. Star article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachesl Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Oct. 12, 2005. 01:00 AM Toronto gets green light from MLS for franchise in 2007 Ball in city's court to build stadium Deadline Oct. 31 or `deal off the table' JIM BYERS SPORTS REPORTER Toronto will have a Major League Soccer franchise in April, 2007, if city officials approve a new stadium deal for Exhibition Place by Oct. 31, the head of the league said yesterday. But there's no guarantee that Toronto politicians will fall in line, Deputy Mayor Joe Pantalone told the Star. MLS commissioner Don Garber yesterday put a good deal of public pressure on the city by holding a teleconference call with Toronto media. Garber said he's tremendously excited about the 12-team league opening a Canadian franchise that would feature about two-thirds Canadian players in a bid to boost the country's sagging national team. Garber has been talking with Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment about an expansion team in Toronto for the better part of a year and the framework of a deal is in place. "We are close to finalizing a deal for '07," he said. "We've given MLSE an exclusive window through the end of the month to negotiate a deal for an expansion team." But Garber said the board of governors of MLS would have to approve the deal at its meeting Nov. 12 in order for a Toronto team to be in place at the start of the 2007 season. And that means the city has until the end of the month to provide its stamp of approval. "It's a firm deadline," Garber said. "After the deadline the deal's off the table. It's dead." Garber said an expansion team in Toronto would cost "slightly more" than the $10 million (U.S.) paid to put teams in Los Angeles and Salt Lake City this year. He also said another team would be added in a U.S. city at the board of governors Nov. 12 meeting. Likely cities include Cleveland, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Houston and Philadelphia. "This would be good for the city and good for Canadian soccer," Garber said. Before the MLS came into existence in 1996, the U.S. national team was ranked 35th in the world. But with the league providing American players with a place to play high-level soccer on their own soil, the U.S. side jumped to No. 7. Canada is currently ranked 84th, but Garber said that could change dramatically if Canadian players had a place to play at home. MLSE president Richard Peddie said he's been told that 11 of the 18 players on a Toronto squad would be Canadian. Peddie said he was worried that might hurt the team's chances of success but that he was told a Toronto team might be allowed to spend more money than other clubs (MLS teams have to adhere to a league-mandated budget) in order to attract top talent. MLSE would be willing to spend about $8 million to help finance the stadium at Exhibition Place, which has been pegged at $60 million. The federal government has offered $27 million, while Queen's Park has said it will pay $8 million toward the stadium, which is expected to host games for the FIFA world youth soccer championships in the summer of 2007. Pantalone recently told the Star the city is willing to pay $9.5 million if the stadium is built at the Ex, but not if it's at Downsview as previously planned. Pantalone, who's chair of the board of governors of the Ex, said he's prepared to call a special meeting of the board next week to deal with the stadium. It would go to city council's policy and finance committee Oct. 20 and then to city council Oct. 26. "I think the mayor is prepared to champion this, but you do have 44 councillors," Peddie said. The Oct. 31 deadline is manageable, he said. Pantalone said he's cautiously optimistic but that potentially contentious issues still have to be ironed out between the various parties. He is expected to meet with MLSE officials and other interested parties today. with files from Canadian Press Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacRWE Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 where exactly in Exhibition will the stadium be? where the baseball park was/is? MLS made this announcement to "dump ice cold water on the sleeping CSA, City, MLSE and Federal Gov!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juaninho Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by zacRWE where exactly in Exhibition will the stadium be? where the baseball park was/is? MLS made this announcement to "dump ice cold water on the sleeping CSA, City, MLSE and Federal Gov!" No, I think I read that they would gut some buildings, possibly the better living centre and the building where the Canadian Sports hall of fame is, or at least I think it's the Canadian Sports hall of fame. Basically, I think it will be a bit North and possibly a bit west of where the old Exhibition stadium used to be. I don't think it'll be close to the Dufferin gates, where the baseball diamonds are. http://www.toronto.com/map?mode=geo&id=150054&lat=436326&lon=-794178 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Elias Let's be honest, there's about a billion things more important than a soccer stadium. Besides the 100 people on this board, nobody else cares about the stadium. Nobody is going to "suffer humiliation & embarassment". But they will suffer if they get into an other SkyDome deal. Why is everybody talking about it then? Its not like the media isn't covering this thoroughly, there are newspaper, tv & radio reports about this everywhere. "Toronto loses MLS, WYC & Stadium Thanks to City Councillors" headlines ARE going to make them look bad for the GTA's many, many soccer fans, if nothing else. Don't tell me there aren't any in the GTA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by zacRWE where exactly in Exhibition will the stadium be? where the baseball park was/is? I prefer to think of it as the old soccer stadium, myself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca It would be interesting to see what happens if you take the mother of all canadians abroad list and rank the player/clubs in terms of competitive level and $$$ that they earn. I figure that you would have to rule out half a dozen or so at the top of the list as being unattainable financially from an MLS standpoint. In that rank, at what number do you begin on that list if you are Toronto MLS. and what talent level are you at when you've counted down eleven spots from there? Thats why, hopefully, MLS will consider that option. Furthermore, this is another reason we are not ready at this time for three MLS teams since what kind of player would have if you counted down 33 spots from where you started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 quote:Let's be honest, there's about a billion things more important than a soccer stadium. Besides the 100 people on this board, nobody else cares about the stadium. Nobody is going to "suffer humiliation & embarassment". But they will suffer if they get into an other SkyDome deal. Actually, people are talking about it. I belong to several other "Urban" issues message boards, and the stadium issue is a hot topic. Some people have raised concerns about the demolition of the modernist Food building. I myself would rather have the stadium built in the gigantic parking lot, but that would mean a substantial loss of parking space. To make up for it, the Ex would have to build very expensive multi-storey parking structures. That's one of the main reasons the stadium is proposed at the site of the Food building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 "MLSE Swindles City for $50-Million" would be a much worse headline for the local politicians. quote:Originally posted by Jarrek Actually, people are talking about it. I belong to several other "Urban" issues message boards, and the stadium issue is a hot topic. Some people have raised concerns about the demolition of the modernist Food building. I myself would rather have the stadium built in the gigantic parking lot, but that would mean a substantial loss of parking space. To make up for it, the Ex would have to build very expensive multi-storey parking structures. That's one of the main reasons the stadium is proposed at the site of the Food building. Exactly, people are talking about the demolition of this, the cost of that, etc. How many people are worried about the stadium not being built? My point is that not building the stadium is a much safer option for the politicians, than getting it built and taking a huge financial hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealGooner Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Elias "MLSE Swindles City for $50-Million" would be a much worse headline for the local politicians. Exactly, people are talking about the demolition of this, the cost of that, etc. How many people are worried about the stadium not being built? My point is that not building the stadium is a much safer option for the politicians, than getting it built and taking a huge financial hit. It reported a few days ago when the MLSE committed to help with funding that they would provide guarantees on operating costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I guess we're about a day away now from a scathing, ill-informend, op-ed piece by Dave Perkins of the Toronto Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Elias "MLSE Swindles City for $50-Million" would be a much worse headline for the local politicians. One that you will never see, unless you happen to work for a newspaper, or Dave Perkins starts to whine again (he only seemed to have a problem with the Argos owners getting help with their stadium for some reason, so I doubt we will see that). If the stadium is built the news will be "Stadium, WYC & MLS coming to Toronto" - just as yesterday the news was reported as "Stadium, WYC & MLS on its way to Toronto". quote: My point is that not building the stadium is a much safer option for the politicians, than getting it built and taking a huge financial hit. What huge financial hit? The city is getting a $62 million stadium on land they own, where they wanted it & fought for it, with MLSE guaranteeing the operating costs, for just $9 million. Sounds like a bargain to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack I guess we're about a day away now from a scathing, ill-informend, op-ed piece by Dave Perkins of the Toronto Star. I expected it today actually. But instead he had a piece about the new dragon boat racing course on the lake. Cost $27-million paid for by our three favourite amigos, the feds ($19), the province and the city ($4 each). Suprisingly, he actually calls it a "worthwhile project". He sort of took a shot at Volpe with regards to the York stadium. quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca What huge financial hit? The city is getting a $62 million stadium on land they own, where they wanted it & fought for it, with MLSE guaranteeing the operating costs, for just $9 million. Sounds like a bargain to me. MLSE doesn't exactly operate like that. Somebody needs to guarantee the construction costs that are (because of the real tight timeframe) guaranteed to go over budget, and the annual operating costs. Okay so lets say they cover the annual operating costs, besides MLS, what exactly will this stadium host? UofT football with 500 people a game? Youth soccer? So the city has to take into consideration 3 years when MLSE gives up on MLS, who will pay for the stadium? I really want to see this done. And since there's no chance of a CSL happening anytime soon, I also want to see MLS in Toronto. But this is far from being anywhere near a done deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrek Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 quote:My point is that not building the stadium is a much safer option for the politicians, than getting it built and taking a huge financial hit. The Ontario government is spending $3 million on a Lord of the Rings production in Toronto. They estimate over the play will pump in $700 million into the local economy. I'm sure they forecast some kind of similar economic models if the stadium is built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 And they said the same thing about SARSstock and brining Connan to Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 60 Million Dollars (US or CDN?) to develop 11 Canadian players and to stage halve a dozen WYC matches? What a scandelous proposal from Garber and the MLS. How Bushishly American to try and intimidate Canadian politicians into rushing a major decision just to accomodate a MLS board of governors meeting. Let's not give them a decision until November 1st, just for their F ing Yankee arogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstackho Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 BTW, does FIFA have anything to say about a league covering two countries? I know they have previously spoken against Scottish teams joining England leagues. Of course, there are Welsh teams in England's league. And a New Zealand team in the new Australian A-League. Just curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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