MLS ancmnt re: Toronto expansion Oct 11+, Stadium

[jeffymac1971]

MLS Commissioner Don Gerber is scheduled to make an annoucement at 4pm in regards to MLS expansion to Toronto. http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/index.jsp

Note: Let's keep all news and discussion on Toronto stadium issues here for the next few Weeks : mod

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by jeffymac1971

MLS Commissioner Don Gerber is scheduled to make an annoucement at 4pm in regards to MLS expansion to Toronto. http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/index.jsp

Good heads up, just saw it myself. That is right now, 4 PM Eastern. No more details than that on the MLS page.

[Massive Attack]

Thanks for the heads up. It has just started.

[L.T.]

MLS COMMISSIONER GIVES MLSE DEADLINE ON SOCCER STADIUM

By Scott Warfield, Staff Writer, SportsBusiness Journal

MLS Commissioner Don Garber announced today that the league has given Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment, the Toronto group bidding for an expansion team, until the end of the month to secure a soccer-specific stadium. At that point, if a location has not been identified, the league will shift its focus to other markets. Garber also announced that the league is endorsing Exhibition Place and not Downsview Park as the preferred location for the 20,000-seat stadium.

[Gian-Luca]

Have to wonder about the motivation about giving a deadline & a preference for a location.

ie. "We really like Toronto as a market, we think its so great that if there isn't a stadium in place in two weeks, but instead three, then we are pulling the plug on that entire market" Doesn't make sense. Has to be an orchestrated move with MLSE & the CSA to get the stadium in place.

Maybe it was in the first bit of the conference (I missed the first 25 minutes). That bit about MLS conducting research and finding out that more people preferred Exhibition over Downsview, I am highly skeptical about. Who did they ask??

[Gian-Luca]

There's a lot of Canadian media phoning into this. Gerry's asking about the impact of Montreal & Vancouver USL teams, Garber responds that they are potential MLS markets down the road, with a short window of time when they won't expand futher in Canada & Toronto will be an exclusive MLS Canadian team, but after thatMLS are "committed" to having more than one MLS team in Canada. That's a Garber quote. So is "MLSE" apparently. If Garber is to be believed.

[matthew]

I don't mind the deadline. As Garber said "everything is in place, there's no reason to wait" We shouldn't have had to wait this long. Someone needed to show some urgency and I daresay vision and get this thing done. They need a stadium by April of 07, that's 17 months. Not a lot of time. If MLSE/CSA/City of Toronto and whoever else is a player in this deal can't get things moving by the end of October, why not go to plan B and expand into a different market what they can make things happen.

cheers,

matthew

[Gian-Luca]

Here's a rough summary posted by Piltdownman (if you're reading this, hope you don't mind) on bigsoccer.com:

All of this is me summarizing by me. So it isn't accurate and has my bias

------------

Canadian press: What has to be done by Oct 31?

MLS: Finalize with CSA, MLSE and all other partners, and have the stadium at exhibition.

Canadian Press follow up: cost of expansion? it was $10 million

MLS: Just a little more

----

Globe: what about the stadium?

MLS: Understands it has been a mess, but it is on its way. He has faith in MLSE. Canada needs to get it ready for FIFA. The youth world cup is more important reason to rush.

--

Associate press: Is the deadline is oct 31, because the league starts in april?

MLS: yes, plus the World Youth Cup. No reason to wait. MLSE, MLS and CSA is ready just waiting for other partners. Don't want to wait.

AP: What if they need a later date? like NOv 15?

MLS: we have waited long enough already. Great interest, its time to nail it down so everyone can win.

----

??: why is Toronto a given. We have had enough trouble in america so why canada?

MLS: Great support in Canada. Stadiums are always hard. Great Support for Federal, Provincial, Civic and Mayor.

???: What about the other city? Who is in the lead?

MLS: No frontrunners, all leading candidate

----

???: Who started the discussion MLS or MLSE?

MLS: CSA went to MLS and then MLS went to MLSE because of their excellence in sport. Other MLS owners also own NHL so they knew the heads of MLSE

NP: Will this be the only professional team in the stadium:

MLS: both the Lynx and youth soccer will not be left out. But help build the sport in canada. What best for club and country.

--

National Post: How many teams made a profit?

MLS: No Comment

NP: Why Toronto?

MLS: We did research. A million people play soccer in Toronto. More coverage of soccer in canada then in America.

NP: What about the site:

MLS: Better than Downsview, Varcity and the rest. Fans prefer exibition.

NP: After this deadline what happens?

MLS: Deal is off table, it is dead.

----

??? : Compare USL and MLS?

MLS: No competition. Close relationship. Just look at Real Saltlake. Proven to be a great thing for MLS , the City and Soccer. Has not taken anything away from the USL. the Lynx can be a partner in the new stadium and will fit in the food chain.

-----

???: Add teams down the road. If toronto fails can they be considered later?

MLS: Lets not talk too much about that. We plan on this happening.

---

FSWC: More on the football side. Fair to assume roster rules will change.

MLS: Canadian themed rules. Most Canadian rules

FSWC: What about mandate to help US national team

MLS: Not just for US but for region. its better for America for a strong Canadian team. Canada should be at the World Cup and Gold Cup at the highest level

FSWC: Will this limit Vancouver and Montreal?

MLS: Toronto will have an exclusive Canadian window. Maybe convince Yallop to come back into the MLS. Then expand to other Canadian cities.

----

Rogers Sports Net: Both Montreal and Vancouver will be building stadiums. Have you talked to the Whitecaps and Montreal.

MLS: No we haven't talked about depleting the USL. We have just talked to CSA and they say it is good. Lots of good players in Canada. MLS will raise the profile of soccer. Good for Greg and Suppato

SN: How long is the exclusivity for Canada

MSL: Short Range, Next expansion will be 2008,2009,211 . More than one team needed in Canada

[Richard]

Looking good.

[piltdownman]

That is just a rough summery of what was said. I just typed the gist of what they were saying so its not 100% accurate.

I pretty much got the feeling from the press conference that the CSA is leaving the USL out to dry. Pretty much the CSA gave the MLS and MLSE the go ahead to pillage the USL teams.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

I will try to summarize the whole thing, posting just as the previous one came up and there may be discrepancies, but I agree that the deadlining and the insistance that the deal is dead after Oct 31 is clearly an attempt to push the deal ahead, to push the city, CSA, feds and all those involved. Their board meeting is the day before the MLS Cup final, on Nov 12, when they would make the announcement for 2006 expansion.

Garber started by saying that the deadline was coming up, that they had been working with MLS for over a year about moving into Canada, and especially Toronto. The idea was to benefit the city, Canada and the sport.

He also said they were close to finalizing a deal, and that an "exclusive window" had been opened up until Oct 31st to negotiate a team for the city. Further, they did not yet have a clear idea on other teams, but that the frontrunners for the 2006 season were, in no particular order, Houston, Phillie, Cleveland, Milwaukee and St. Louis

He insisted that they had learnt a lot about Canada, its market, licensing, and marketing in it from MLSE, and that the deal would be "good for the CSA and for all those who care about the sport".

He also referred to the lack of success of our national team, and directly linked the success of the US team with the rise of MLS. Thus the advent of MLS in Canada in his view would help the Canadian national team and its success. He also spoke of the positive community effects of a stadium as the "focal point not just for soccer but for the whole community", giving "tremendous international exposure" to Toronto. In this regard he felt that Exhibition Park (which he called Exhibition Place the rest of the time) would be a "perfect location", and to a later question regarding Downsview said that their research suggested that Exhibition over Downsview was a better move for fans and the city.

He also mentioned that the stadium would not just be a venue for MLS soccer, but could, with rugby, high school and college events, and even CFL, be busy with 40-50 dates a year, instead of the under twenty MLS dates (he started to say more than twenty, but I guess realized he had to exclude Open Cup matches and Concacaf club matches, plus playoffs, not assured)

For Garber, the criteria of needing an ownership group was fulfilled by the presense of MLSE, though they had met with the CSA, local fans (??) and sponsor potentials.

Neil Davidson asked about what was left to be done, and Garber said that the MLSE had to finalize the agreement before Oct 31. He also replied to a suggestion by Davidson that the fee would be "slightly higher" than the previous fee for expansion, thus just over 10M US dollars.

Someone from the Globe and Mail asked if the stadium would be built on time, if pressure was related to this factor. Garber more or less said that this and the WYC 2007 were key.

Jim Byers asked about the deadlines, and Garber said that "there was no reason to wait". That MLSE had already agreed to fund a team and their part of the stadium, and the cost of promoting the team in the city.

To an AP question about the time spent talking to TO, since March, or last year, he said that they had found enthusiasm from the city and other officials, including federal officials. He also said, I think in a follow-up that they would have the decision on the other team by Nov 12 as well.

To another query he said that they had originally approached MLSE about expansion, but on the instance of Pipe at the CSA, who spoke of their committment to a stadium for the WYC 2007. So it was the CSA who set up MLS with MLSE.

Another question was regarding exclusivity for a soccer stadium in Toronto. Garber talked about "making the Lynx supportive", taking a "club and country" approach, including youth soccer in the deal. Later questions got into this more, citing the example of Salt Lake.

The National Post asked about MLS profits, Garber declined to speak of money at all. Only of the success of the league in other terms. As to why it would work in TO, he responded citing the million players in Canada, 700,000 in youth, Toronto's ethnic diversity, the interest in the game, the "terrestrial coverage" which was better than in the US. "We've spent money and time researching and talking to people" he insisted. Thus the choice to favour Exhibition over other options, that it was a researched decision (meaning Downsview was not, or was it just a ploy by the CSA? (my question, sorry)).

To a Toronto Star question, he said there was "no competition between us and the USL". I understood he was saying they were in a completely different league, a bit pejorative I thought. Though he thought the Lynx could be included in the pyramid structure of a MLS team, inferring that it could be a reserve squad I thought. This was not clear, he avoided getting into it too much, but suggested that their could be a place for Lynx staff in the MLS team organization.

Garber, answering Fox Sports World Canada, said that the rules and roster regulations would alter for Canada, basically saying that they would be reverse for a Canadian team. He agreed that there would be less jobs for US players on the Canadian team. He argued that for MLS to be competitive they needed Canada, its market, and that this was not against the MLS mandate of benefitting US soccer. He also thought that they had to be supportive of the Mexican national team and Mexican soccer.

Sorry, I missed the full answer to the possible Montreal or Vancouver expansion question. Though he said that TO had exclusivity now, that both other cities were good potential expansion markets, that MLSE itself was committed to more franchises in Canada. Regarding further expansion then, no other Canuck team could come in now if TO failed as it was the exclusive candidate, but the next expansion would be for 2008 or 2009, and then it could happen.

That was about it, quite interesting really. Does not make Pipe look so bad, and does indeed look like a big kick in the butt to those MLSE are negotiating with in To and beyond to get the thing decided on so they can announce it along with their other expansion team on November 12. I think it essentially suggested that all the other potential expansion cities had their act together, but that MLSE was finding that those they were negotiating with in TO did not. So Garber did this to do them a "favour" of sorts. But perhaps others disagree with me on this.

[Andrew W]

I really get the feeling that the professional game is at its crossroads in this country. By the end of this month we should know what direction it will be taking in the future. Regardless of what direction it takes, I believe we'll be looking back at Halloween of 2005 as the time when Canadian pro soccer's destiny was revealed...maybe.

These are truly interesting times in which we live.

[DJT]

Originally posted by sounderfan - 10/11/2005 : 17:18:05</u>

Audio recording (stream) of press conference

[Elias]

Um, huh?!? Sounds like a bunch of bull to me. It's just a bunch of nothing. No expansion fees, no naming other potential cities (looks like he grabbed an atlas and started naming cities), no substantial information at all. "Yeah, we love the Lynx. We love Mexico. We love Montreal. We love Vancouver. We love Canada. Yeah!! Go Canada!! Go Soccer!!"

Who are they trying to pressure? I don't get it.

I'm assuming one target is the City. But since the mayor offered the CNE and the money, I would hope that it's basically a done deal. Because if it's not, then MLS trying to "pressure" the City will backfire when one or two councillors get "offended" at "big evil private corporations telling them how to run our city".

Who else? The feds? Well they did back down from Downsview right? So who else? MLSE and the CSA are on board. There is nobody else to pressure.

This deadline is bull. There is no way it's a hard deadline. They will just look like fools when they don't honour it.

40-50 dates at the stadium? High school and college events? And even the CFL? Obviously he has done A LOT of homework.

Obviously if the city does not agree at that meeting at the end of the month, the stadium won't happen. So I don't get who are they trying to pressure? Like I said, this could backfire, and I don't see what potential upside there is.

quote:Originally posted by piltdownman

I pretty much got the feeling from the press conference that the CSA is leaving the USL out to dry. Pretty much the CSA gave the MLS and MLSE the go ahead to pillage the USL teams.

What do you mean? I think it would make sense that they probably will take 2-3 players from each Canadian USL team. They don't need the CSA's permission.

[Gian-Luca]

IIRC the only thing up for debate still is the City's pledge of cash which has to be voted upon by council on October 26th. Not a lot of room between then & Halloween, so I guess this is extra pressure for the governments to not dick-around. No-one wants to be the cause of the loss of the stadium, the MLS team & the WYC in the city, so they have to work things out now or suffer humiliation & embarassment.

Garber was apparently on the Fan590 and said the deadline is in reference to expansion for 2007, rather than expansion to Toronto in general, which I guess supports the assertion from Garber during the conference that the real urgency is for the WYC. But its still tough to believe that if Toronto doesn't happen for 2007 that any other teams will step up (unless Kerfoot changes his mind about entering MLS in 5 years time & shortens it to two) to make any expansion happen that year. I recall posting an article out of Milwaukee I think it was that stated that it was likely that Toronto was going to be the only expansion team for 2007. Besides, if the purpose of the deadline is to set it now because it takes a year & a half to set things up for a team to begin play in April 2007, how the hell could anyone else possibly get their expansion team prepared in less time? It has to be the MLSE & CSA asking MLS to help give the various governments a kick in the ass to get the bloody thing done.

[Gian-Luca]

Here's Neil's article:

October 11, 2005 Major League Soccer paves the way for an expansion team in Toronto

TORONTO (CP) -- Major League Soccer has paved the way for an expansion team in 2007 in Toronto, providing on-again, off-again plans for a stadium are nailed down by the end of the month.

Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. is spearheading the drive for an MLS team.

"We are close to finalizing a deal for '07. We've given MLSE an exclusive window through the end of the month, Oct. 31 to negotiate a deal for an expansion team," commissioner Don Garber said in a conference call.

"We're very excited about our budding relationship with MLSE ... We think they are fantastic operators, not just in hockey and basketball."

The MLS move puts some pressure on the various partners involved in the stadium project to settle their differences and get a shovel in the ground. The stadium has been an on-again, off-again affair with sites shelved at both the University of Toronto and York University.

More recently there has been disagreement between various levels of government involved in helping fund the $60-million project on whether it should be built on the lakefront at Exhibition Place or in the northern part of the city at Downsview Park.

MLSE has also agreed to help fund the 20,000-seat stadium. MLSE president Richard Peddie did not immediately return a phone call.

The federal government, which owns the Downsview land, has pledged $27 million with another $8 million from the provincial government.

The city has said it will contribute $9.5 million if the stadium goes to Exhibition Place, which now seems the more likely site.

The 12-team league added two new franchises this season: Real Salt Lake and FC Chivas, which plays out of Carson, Calif. Those expansion franchises cost $10 million US apiece and Garber said the price tag this time round will be "slightly higher."

The league is looking for a second expansion team in 2007, with the leading candidates Cleveland, Philadelphia, Houston, Milwaukee and St. Louis, Garber said.

An MLS team would give Canadian talent a chance to develop domestically in the highest level of North American club soccer.

The outdoor stadium will also play a key role in Canada hosting the 2007 world under-20 championship.

[Gian-Luca]

Also to add, apparently this is a much earlier deadline for an expansion team than Chivas & Salt Lake had. So it definitely the kick up the ass to the government deadline.

[DoyleG]

Garber just covering his arse just as he did in San Antonio. If the city council doesn't move, he won't be taking any of the blame.

[RealGooner]

What blame can he take? He's offering us a franchise. He needs an answer so that if we aren't a go he has time to make other plans. Seems reasonable to me.

[RealGooner]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Also to add, apparently this is a much earlier deadline for an expansion team than Chivas & Salt Lake had. So it definitely the kick up the ass to the government deadline.

A much needed one IMO. We had York and Varsity debacles, and the nearly open bickering between the City and the Feds over locations. Enough is enough. Clearly, MLSE don't want to be seen to be leaning too hard on City Hall and the Feds (think of the indignation that would cause just on this board alone) so Garber is doing their dirty work for them by making the veiled threats. But they need to be made or these government clowns will bicker the project to death.

[matthew]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Also to add, apparently this is a much earlier deadline for an expansion team than Chivas & Salt Lake had. So it definitely the kick up the ass to the government deadline.

Of course Salt Lake and Chivas had stadia in place.

How does MLS look bad if Toronto can't produce a stadium with a massively rich owner/operator apparently looking to chip in if needed and a good chunk of change from two levels of government and a major international event to host?

There has been a lot of talk of Philly, Seattle, Houston, Cleveland and Milwaukee (and SA and Rochester) as expansion sites, so it's not like this is out of the hat and I think Houston and either Philly or Seattle could take Toronto's spot by 07 without too much trouble.

MLS wants Toronto, but I don't think they need them so bad that they're going to just sit around and not be proactive.

cheers,

matthew

[Andrew W]

quote:Originally posted by matthew

How does MLS look bad if Toronto can't produce a stadium with a massively rich owner/operator apparently looking to chip in if needed and a good chunk of change from two levels of government and a major international event to host?

Exactly. This announcement removes MLS from the equation as possible party-poopers. They are in with both feet if, and it's a big if, the major players can get this done in exactly 20 days time. At this point and time it looks like only one of the three levels of government can quash the who program.

[Andrew W]

TSN has the following article. It has a few more comments.

MLS one step closer to Toronto

Canadian Press

10/11/2005 3:37:54 PM

TORONTO (CP) - Major League Soccer has opened the door to an expansion team in Toronto, providing on-again, off-again plans for a stadium are nailed down by the end of the month.

Commissioner Don Garber said the league has done ''the hard work'' with would-be owner Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd., owner of the NHL Leafs and NBA Raptors, and the Canadian Soccer Association, which has done a lot of the donkey work in keeping the stadium plan alive.

Now MLS wants the stadium situation sorted pronto, with Garber looking to have a Toronto team in place in 2007. That works for the Canadian Soccer Association, which needs a showcase soccer-specific stadium to help host the 2007 world under-20 soccer championship.

''There's not a lot of time to get this building built,'' Garber said on a conference call Tuesday in announcing the Oct. 31 deadline to firm up stadium plans. ''There's no reason to wait. We want to know where we stand. But if we wait too long, then all of this drags out. Toronto loses its stadium, loses its team and then ultimately has the potential of not having a good spot to play the (under-20) World Cup.''

Up next, the proposed site at Exhibition Place has to be approved and Toronto City Council has to puts its money where the mayor's mouth is.

The Exhibition Place board of governors has to approve the project, and several levels of City Council have to give a green light to $9.5 million in promised funding at meetings that start Oct. 26. As land-owner, the City of Toronto would own the stadium.

If all that happens, MLSE will commit dollars and ''we'll sign on the dotted line for a franchise,'' said Richard Peddie, president of MLSE.

Kevan Pipe, chief operating officer of the Canadian Soccer Association, says Garber's announcement represented a ''huge step'' forward in the right direction. But he acknowledged there is still work to do.

It is not the first deadline imposed by MLS. Just the most public.

''Don's been great,'' said Peddie. ''He gave us a deadline in June, July, August, September, Oct. 1. And I think he's given us his final deadline. He's not trying to play brinkmanship. From what I can tell, he's got other choices.''

Adding to his ultimatum, Garber said the league needs a decision for its Nov. 12 board meeting. The next gathering is slated for March, which he says would be too late.

''We are close to finalizing a deal for '07. We've given MLSE an exclusive window through the end of the month, Oct. 31 to negotiate a deal for an expansion team,'' Garber said.

The 12-team league added two new franchises this season: Real Salt Lake and FC Chivas, which plays out of Carson, Calif. Those expansion franchises cost $10 million US apiece.

Garber said the expansion price tag this time is ''slightly higher.''

The league is looking for a second expansion team in 2007, with the leading candidates Cleveland, Philadelphia, Houston, Milwaukee and St. Louis, Garber said.

The MLS deadline puts some pressure on the various partners involved in the stadium project to settle their differences and get a shovel in the ground. The stadium has been an on-again, off-again affair with sites shelved at both the University of Toronto and York University.

More recently there has been disagreement between various levels of government involved in helping fund the project on whether it should be built on the lakefront at Exhibition Place or in the northern part of the city at Downsview Park.

The current budget of the stadium is around $62 million Cdn.

The federal government, which owns the Downsview land but now seems to have signed off on Exhibition Place, has pledged $27 million with another $8 million from the provincial government. If the city pledges $9.65 million, that leaves a little more than $17 million needed.

Part of that shortfall will be made up in selling naming rights to the stadium, a process that is already under way.

MLSE is ready to contribute the rest although it won't say how much that is other than to say ''it's substantial.''

Garber called Exhibition Place ''the perfect location.'' The property is adjacent to Ontario Place on the lakefront and once housed Exhibition Stadium, the former home to the Argos and Blue Jays. It currently is home to the Ricoh Coliseum, where the American Hockey League Marlies play, and the annual CNE summer fair.

An MLS team would give Canadian talent a chance to develop domestically in the highest level of North American club soccer.

MLS is a so-called single-entity organization. That means the players are under contract to the league, which then allocates them to the individual franchises.

A team in Toronto would consist of Canadians, with perhaps a few imports just as U.S. teams are largely American with a limit on foreigners.

Canadians currently in MLS include Pat Onstad and Dwayne DeRosario (San Jose Earthquakes), Will Johnson (Chicago Fire) and Winston Marshall (FC Dallas).

While the MLS franchise carries a significant expansion fee and stadium costs, soccer represents a budget sport to Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment when compared to the five-star world of hockey or basketball.

The current salary budget for MLS teams is about $1.8 million US per squad.

''That was the price of one hockey player a year ago,'' Peddie said.

The league minimum for a senior roster player was $28,000 US in 2005.

As for attendance, Peddie says if a Toronto MLS team can draw 13,000 to 15,000 per game, ''that would do the job for us.''

Garber, who is always open to expansion possibilities, did not rule out other Canadian teams in the future. The Montreal Impact of the United Soccer League already have a new stadium in the works, and the Vancouver Whitecaps are also looking to build.

''The intent is in time to expand to other cities in Canada and we're actually very excited about that,'' Garber said. ''We just have not put a particular timetable in place as to when exactly that would happen.''

Garber even talked of maybe convincing Canadian national team coach Frank Yallop, a former MLS coach of the year with the San Jose Earthquakes, to return to MLS.

If that were to happen, Yallop might have to give up a job. Pipe said coaching the national team is a ''full-time occupation.'' Yallop, who has dismissed rumours he is looking to return to a MLS team, is under contract through the end of 2006 with the national team.

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

As to why it would work in TO, he responded citing the million players in Canada, 700,000 in youth, Toronto's ethnic diversity, the interest in the game, the "terrestrial coverage" which was better than in the US. "We've spent money and time researching and talking to people" he insisted.

That's hilarious. Who's buying this stuff?

I also find it funny that Garber says that he wants to help Canada and at the same time he wants to take our coach away.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Andrew W

Exactly. This announcement removes MLS from the equation as possible party-poopers. They are in with both feet if, and it's a big if, the major players can get this done in exactly 20 days time. At this point and time it looks like only one of the three levels of government can quash the who program.

And City Council would love to be in that position.