2023 World Cup General Match Thread

[rightback]

14 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Very hard to pick the best players in this tournament. I think they'll give it to Bonmatí, but probably the best and most consistent player for Spain has been Abelleira. Carmona a great captain. Paredes so strong at the back. Then Cata Coll has been amazing these last four matches, agile, sure in the air, good with her feet. Very balanced performance.

Interesting, Hermoso was my favourite player this WC...astonishing ability, too bad about the PK. Great team.

 

[kacbru]

2 minutes ago, rightback said:

Interesting, Hermoso was my favourite player this WC...astonishing ability, too bad about the PK. Great team.

 

Also too bad for her encounter with the slimy head of Spanish Football Federation - 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/fifa-womens-world-cup-2023/300954296/i-did-not-enjoy-that-jenni-hermoso-kissed-on-lips-by-spains-football-federation-president

[Stanley]

14 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Sorry just needed to get it out of my system. From what I am reading elsewhere some of Spain's best players boycotted this tournament so it's clearly not just the CWNT that have issues with their national association and their absence makes Spain's victory even more impressive. 

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/spains-womens-world-cup-controversy-explained-why-coach-jorge-vilda-is-under-fire-despite-winning-title/

Ozzie has "small Willie Johnson" syndrome.

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, kacbru said:

Also too bad for her encounter with the slimy head of Spanish Football Federation - 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/fifa-womens-world-cup-2023/300954296/i-did-not-enjoy-that-jenni-hermoso-kissed-on-lips-by-spains-football-federation-president

There are appalling things happening in Spanish football that often taint the great achievements, no question. The Madrid-based hierarchies are decadent and often rancid, but that is how the politicians are too, the country has a lot of rot at the core.

I have defended the federation, and not just because Vilda really did not deserve to be slandered en masse by those players. He's a modest guy and there is not a single piece of evidence of mistreatment. But also,  because Vilda is a federation man, and when all is said and done, they have taken a massive number of female players to great success, u-17s, u-20s, senior. It is arguably the best group across ages and generations in history (the US never correlated youth success with senior, or not for any extended period), and it has happened in about a decade. Then the league has taken a major leap, the clubs are growing, the fan base, the public profile, the sponsors. So for me, it is not just the same old "they must be doing something right", but also that many women are thriving in the environments they produce. 

It is insulting to the women there to think they are so stupid or weak that they would willingly put themselves into an abusive situation.

But the federation are not the only ones who deserve credit, and in fact, it is the clubs and especially FC Barcelona that have raised the senior level. historically clubs like Bilbao, Atlético de Madrid, Levante, but now FCB. Basically, like with the Spanish team that won the men's WC, which was coached by Madrid legend Del Bosque but led mostly by Barça players (plus Casillas and Ramos), in this case a federation man from Madrid has led a group of mostly Barça players to the women's title (plus key pieces like Carmona, Abelleira). 

So the federation cannot just sit there and bunker down, and less so when this triumph is not exclusively to its credit. In fact, Vilda replaced the best of the missing 12 players with their subs at Barça, Coll in goal for Paños, Codina as CB instead of Mapi León. 

I am a bit shocked that hardly any articles in the English press mention this. Hardly any articles about my club, which has produced the best player in the world, the best national team, the best club team, the biggest crowds for women's football in history. All of that ignored by the Anglo press. But if you read the predictions, they were all like "England has the tournament experience and is favourite", when obviously the FCB players who have made it to the Champions League final three years in a row have a bit of tournament experience as well. The final was a bit like watching Barça vs. Chelsea, the styles, the tactics, the resources available to the respective teams. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, Stanley said:

Ozzie has "small Willie Johnson" syndrome.

Unlikely, given I am six foot three and I would have thought a Whitecaps fan would know that his name is Willie Johnston. Not just the spelling but also the pronunciation is different. Beyond that, how difficult is it exactly for some people to understand that England and the UK are not one and the same, so people in or from Scotland are likely to feel much the same way about the England team doing well as Everton fans feel about Liverpool's success over the years (i.e. not keen on having their local rivals having something to endlessly gloat about)? 

[BearcatSA]

9 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

There are appalling things happening in Spanish football that often taint the great achievements, no question. The Madrid-based hierarchies are decadent and often rancid, but that is how the politicians are too, the country has a lot of rot at the core.

I have defended the federation, and not just because Vilda really did not deserve to be slandered en masse by those players. He's a modest guy and there is not a single piece of evidence of mistreatment. But also,  because Vilda is a federation man, and when all is said and done, they have taken a massive number of female players to great success, u-17s, u-20s, senior. It is arguably the best group across ages and generations in history (the US never correlated youth success with senior, or not for any extended period), and it has happened in about a decade. Then the league has taken a major leap, the clubs are growing, the fan base, the public profile, the sponsors. So for me, it is not just the same old "they must be doing something right", but also that many women are thriving in the environments they produce. 

It is insulting to the women there to think they are so stupid or weak that they would willingly put themselves into an abusive situation.

But the federation are not the only ones who deserve credit, and in fact, it is the clubs and especially FC Barcelona that have raised the senior level. historically clubs like Bilbao, Atlético de Madrid, Levante, but now FCB. Basically, like with the Spanish team that won the men's WC, which was coached by Madrid legend Del Bosque but led mostly by Barça players (plus Casillas and Ramos), in this case a federation man from Madrid has led a group of mostly Barça players to the women's title (plus key pieces like Carmona, Abelleira). 

So the federation cannot just sit there and bunker down, and less so when this triumph is not exclusively to its credit. In fact, Vilda replaced the best of the missing 12 players with their subs at Barça, Coll in goal for Paños, Codina as CB instead of Mapi León. 

I am a bit shocked that hardly any articles in the English press mention this. Hardly any articles about my club, which has produced the best player in the world, the best national team, the best club team, the biggest crowds for women's football in history. All of that ignored by the Anglo press. But if you read the predictions, they were all like "England has the tournament experience and is favourite", when obviously the FCB players who have made it to the Champions League final three years in a row have a bit of tournament experience as well. The final was a bit like watching Barça vs. Chelsea, the styles, the tactics, the resources available to the respective teams. 

At the start of this tourney, I posted that I really wanted the winner to be a team that had outstanding team as well as individual techical and tactical talents as its keystone, and I got it.  Yeah!

The under-reporting of the nuts and bolts of the "Spanish Way" achievements at all levels is only a problem for me from a Canadian perspective because we are still  locked in the checkers model of player and team development (along with a number of higher profile countries, I might add) while Spain is playing 3D chess (hey, I threw that in when I  had stated awhile ago that I wanted its usage banished from the board in the CMNT thread 😉).

It is an outstanding program.  Despite missing key performers here, like several other sides, it is a "next player up" program without missing a beat.  It deserves all its kudos.  Everyone should be learning from it, as well as other similar programs, but they likely still won't.

Most importantly, we need to be learning from it.  Will we?

[Unnamed Trialist]

12 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Unlikely, given I am six foot three and I would have thought a Whitecaps fan would know that his name is Willie Johnston. Not just the spelling but also the pronunciation is different. Beyond that, how difficult is it exactly for some people to understand that England and the UK are not one and the same, so people in or from Scotland are likely to feel much the same way about the England team doing well as Everton fans feel about Liverpool's success over the years (i.e. not keen on having their local rivals having something to endlessly gloat about)? 

For once I "agree" with you. But where you distinguish between "doing well" (England) and success (Liverpool), it's clear the Scots have little to feel jealous about, while for Everton fans it's entirely different.

When was the last time England fans celebrated in Scottish streets? And weren't rugby fans.

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

At the start of this tourney, I posted that I really wanted the winner to be a team that had outstanding team as well as individual techical and tactical talents as its keystone, and I got it.  Yeah!

The under-reporting of the nuts and bolts of the "Spanish Way" achievements at all levels is only a problem for me from a Canadian perspective because we are still  locked in the checkers model of player and team development (along with a number of higher profile countries, I might add) while Spain is playing 3D chess (hey, I threw that in when I  had stated awhile ago that I wanted its usage banished from the board in the CMNT thread 😉).

It is an outstanding program.  Despite missing key performers here, like several other sides, it is a "next player up" program without missing a beat.  It deserves all its kudos.  Everyone should be learning from it, as well as other similar programs, but they likely still won't.

Most importantly, we need to be learning from it.  Will we?

It still comes down to the players you currently have, and I don't think Canada is far behind, despite the result at the WC. A good chunk of Canada's roster could make a Spanish roster. Canada isn't really worse than Denmark or Norway, maybe Sweden has a slight edge. 

A good part of Canada's roster could also raise their game.

If we had a coach and even a coaching culture, like for our women's youth, that could insist that you can't fukin boot it to no one nowhere ladies, we'd be surprised. They wouldn't do it. I don't think they'd be all boo hoo someone raised their voice at me! We've just let them get away with it. If Sincy ever had a coach like that, I can't believe she thought "I score goals leave me alone". She's not arrogant. It's simply that University of Portland and then Thorn is a crappy benchmark for the way things are moving.

At Barça you lose a ball dumbly there's a murmur in the stands. Don't dare do it twice. Yes ladies, that means you too.

 

[rkomar]

Like doing the tango, it takes two to pass the ball.  I think half the problem on the Canadian team is the person who is meant to receive the pass not doing what the passer expects.

I've been trying to understand how the Spanish players pass so well even without taking any time when they receive the ball.  It looks to me like their potential targets don't do anything to spoil the pass in the time the passer diverts their attention to hitting the ball.  It sounds simple, but it is a major complication in what movements you can make off the ball.  You have to be prepared to move the ball as quickly as possible when you get it, while also understanding what you can and cannot do to help the teammate who will next pass the ball.  I saw this advanced understanding in the Spanish and Japanese women's teams in the UXX tournaments, so it is clear that it is something that is trained at a young age.  I have no idea how to get that kind of training going in North America.  It requires a kind of understanding and commitment system-wide that I'm not sure we possess here.

I'm not really just crapping on Canada here.  Spain and Japan seem to be ahead of everyone else right now in this aspect.

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Canada isn't really worse than Denmark or Norway, maybe Sweden has a slight edge. 

They are about the same, which is round of 16 at the least, QF at best, which we more or less saw here.  Both of these two teams went out in the round of 16.

Of the QF teams, the home side certainly punched above its weight but eventually got done in by defensive shortcomings that the keeper couldn't bail them out on, while some teams ran out of steam (Japan, Colombia).  Netherlands pushed the winners; France out on penalty lottery but they did not seem to be on all cylinders on the attack vs Australia except for some individual efforts.

For our players to raise their game, that probably has to come much more from being involved in highly competitve professional club and league environments, preferably at younger ages, where the techical and tactical side of the game is continually hammered home (including on front of supporters who know the game and voice their displeasure in whatever manner).    We have been premised on defensive shape, goalkeeping, work ethic, and timely scoring and each area had breakdowns here.  Are we as bad as our performance Down Under showed?  No, but I am a little skeptical of the overall ceiling and quality of many of the regularly playing incumbents who will be in the upcoming Olympic qualifier series.

Lots to prove.

 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

25 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

They are about the same, which is round of 16 at the least, QF at best, which we more or less saw here.  Both of these two teams went out in the round of 16.

Of the QF teams, the home side certainly punched above its weight but eventually got done in by defensive shortcomings that the keeper couldn't bail them out on, while some teams ran out of steam (Japan, Colombia).  Netherlands pushed the winners; France out on penalty lottery but they did not seem to be on all cylinders on the attack vs Australia except for some individual efforts.

For our players to raise their game, that probably has to come much more from being involved in highly competitve professional club and league environments, preferably at younger ages, where the techical and tactical side of the game is continually hammered home (including on front of supporters who know the game and voice their displeasure in whatever manner).    We have been premised on defensive shape, goalkeeping, work ethic, and timely scoring and each area had breakdowns here.  Are we as bad as our performance Down Under showed?  No, but I am a little skeptical of the overall ceiling and quality of many of the regularly playing incumbents who will be in the upcoming Olympic qualifier series.

Lots to prove.

 

 

Canada: it's actually quite common in international football for a winner (Olympics) to bomb out in the next tournament. Spain's a case, Germany, in men. Brazil has done it too. I'm not overly worried about our result in Australia, it's more the rising level all over the world. CONCACAF is going to get harder, especially after the next WC, when it won't be in our region. 

[BearcatSA]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I'm not overly worried about our result in Australia, it's more the rising level all over the world.

But that's it, though.  And because of that, I see us in that top 16 grouping in a WC and possibly a QF if the defensive game remains stout.  Time will tell, I guess.  Let's see how we do versus an underdog with momentum in September.

 

 

[The Ref]

Costed his job.  The president of the Spanish Federation was forced to resign because he kissed a player during the euphoria of celebrating winning the World Cup and was severely criticized for his transgression.

[nolando]

9 hours ago, The Ref said:

Costed his job.  The president of the Spanish Federation was forced to resign because he kissed a player during the euphoria of celebrating winning the World Cup and was severely criticized for his transgression.

Good riddance. Worth pointing out he made creepy comments about marrying her as well; it wasn't only the (deplorable) kiss.

[JamboAl]

The problem is that Rubiales is refusing to resign.

[Stanley]

On 8/21/2023 at 12:51 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Unlikely, given I am six foot three and I would have thought a Whitecaps fan would know that his name is Willie Johnston. 

Yes, but I was referring to penis size, and a penis is referred to a a Johnson not a Johnston. 😁

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Do you have a mental age of 12 years old or something like that?

[Unnamed Trialist]

19 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Do you have a mental age of 12 years old or something like that?

Says the guy who cites his own height in a discussion about a short player.