CPL bilingualism

[Bison44]

51 minutes ago, narduch said:

My guess is the Fury will still be in USL next year.

I don't understand why they want to stay though. That league is a joke of a behemoth now. The MLS affiliates cheapen it as well.

Look at it from an american point of view.  They work in partnership with MLS (unlike NASL) they can act like a feeder system of sorts for US college kids trying to make MLS.  And its a test run for a lot of expansion sites.  And look at all the little hotbeds of soccer support they have found. Cincy, Indy, Vegas, Hartford.....Hartford is drawing almost 6000 fans.  Everytime i think we might be closing on the US I look at the 300 USL-Champ and USL-One teams...they actually have the makings of a pyramid.  They could have pro/rel if the will was there.  But you are 100% right, why would a CDN team choose to stay in that system now that there is a viable CDN option??  

[narduch]

I think in the long run the MLS affiliates will go in their own separate league

But for Ottawa does playing Bethlehem or NYR! II really matter.  I'd rather play a Canadian team

[Rintaran]

14 hours ago, narduch said:

But for Ottawa does playing Bethlehem or NYR! II really matter.  I'd rather play a Canadian team

To the fans? It really shouldn't. May as well play against Timbuktoo and Whereareyou.

To the FO, sure does. As the sole Canadian Team in the USL, they have a couple things they get to play off of:

• Direct line toward the MLS.
  • Teams in the MLS, especially affiliate teams, look to the USL first to fill back bench positions.
  • The direct affiliate provides a visible link to a pro contract
• Chest-thumping Canada vs USA action.
  • As the only Canadian Team, Fury get to claim they're fighting back the American behemoth. That thrill we get whenever we beat the Americans at anything, is exactly what they're going for. In the capital, this need to beat the Americans should be even stronger. It doesn't really work out for the way FO expects/hopes, but that's just poor marketing.
  • Provide a direct way to compare "Canadian Players" stack up against the USA
• Small fish, big pond
  • As a small fish in a big pond, if they screw up, it doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things. This allows for some experimentation on field or in operations. Fury are basically floated as a tax write-off by OSEG, but they would like to turn a profit on it someday. So they have some room to experiment and see if it happens.

I would absolutely love for them to be a part of CanPL. I would also love to see a lot more French and even some Anishinaabemowin (though that's definitely a pipe dream).

 

(Looped it back on topic for ya.  )

[Initial B]

17 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

JDG is only the hired help. John Pugh is more likely to be making the key decisions.

Pugh is more a minor partner compared to the rest of the ownership. It's probably Roger Greenberg and John Ruddy that are making most of the decisions and everything is filters through the RedBlack's lens. They have financial priority, follow probably equally by the 67's and the Fury.

[Ansem]

 

[kacbru]

1 hour ago, Lofty said:

I read your response. I was not referring to you personally. I saw that you said you were not personally offended.

To restate: Part of the "other" side's argument is: "We, the Francophone population, are offended if CPL doesn't use French". (And just to be clear, I am well aware that this generalization clearly does not apply to all Francophones!)

What about me, part of the anglophone population?  I'm also offended that more effort hasn't been put in by the CPL to use french.  Someone earlier listed off the population of francophones.  What about the million(s?) of others that are bilingual?

[kacbru]

8 minutes ago, Lofty said:

I did not mean to imply that Anglophones cannot be offended. You are allowed to be offended too. 😁

Those who are bilingual can presumably access the English content.

True.  But it's more about me clinging to the mythology of a bilingual country.

[m-g-williams]

19 hours ago, Lofty said:

Canada is bilingual in name only (and in government publications). Many in Quebec do not speak English. Many in B.C. do not speak English or French. The majority do not speak French. That is just reality, whatever we may hope for.

Not to get too bogged down, but the federal government has recognized this since day one. That's why there's a distinction between personal bilingualism (whether or not a given person can speak both languages) and official bilingualism (the requirement to offer federal government services in both languages).

The former is obviously supported through different funds and programs, but everyone is conscious of the linguistic reality on the ground. No one questions that AB is overwhelmingly Anglo and QC is overwhelmingly Franco. Like you said, the reality of the current situation (I say "current" because there were historically much higher proportions of French-speakers in different parts of the country than there are today) is that the vast majority of the population is not bilingual. 

The latter is really what we're talking about here (I know this is a sports league and not the federal government, but where this is a supposedly "national" organization it's kind 0of seen the same way). Setting aside Canada's Indigenous Peoples (*not* because they do not matter, but to do that history justice would require a whoooooooole other conversation), the English and the French - and their descendants - were instrumental in creating what is now known as Canada. I don't think anyone would dispute the importance of that history, that contribution or that enduring legacy. Given that these are the two so-called "founding nations" (again, I am *not* denying Indigenous influence, just leaving that for another day), their legacies occupy fundamentally different places than any other group in Canada. Their languages, customs, legal systems - hell, even the way New France was farmed still impacts Canada today. Think of the English and French as primes inter pares. 

Given that this is the case, the preservation of these legacies is enshrined in our laws, our institutions and our constitution. The result is that, among other things, English and French language rights are fundamentally different than those of any other language in Canada. English is not treated the same as Spanish or Mandarin. French is not treated the same as Russian or Arabic. Canada as a political entity is officially and legally bilingual. You *cannot* make the comparison of "well, if you want it in X official language, what about A, B, C other language?". Canada is a multicultural country, but with two cultures that are treated differently than any other.

The final thing I'll say for now (and this took me a long time to figure out) is that, by and large, Anglos and Francos in Canada tend to view language very differently. For Anglos, language is at least a tool, at most a window; you can use it to communicate information, or go a little further and use it to learn new information about a people or culture. For Francos, language is *the fundamental expression of Francophone heritage and the most critical means of preserving that heritage for future generations*. Speaking, writing in, listening to, reading - "living" in French is the means by which Canada's circa 8 million Francos ensure they don't get assimilated by the more than 360 million Anglos that surround them in North America. Receiving information in French is fundamental to supporting the French legacy in the continent. 

I know that there are a lot of diverging opinions on how French-language content is viewed, and fair enough. But if anything, I'd just want people to recognize that having a purported "national" league ignore the millions of desecndants of those who were instrumental in building this country does not go over well. Excusing it as a business decision when NGOs and non-profits with far less money are still able to get the job done is not only seen as bullshit, it's seen as an outright slap in the face. If we're all truly serious about getting more publicity for the league, it has to start with French-language content. Point final. 

: ) 

Edited November 1, 2019 by m-g-williams

[m-g-williams]

17 minutes ago, Lofty said:

^ So, for ideological reasons CPL should be fully bilingual.

And for practical business reasons that was not necessary to begin with.

Two different viewpoints. We all get it!

. . . No. : / 

In not being bilingual to begin with, the league has made a piss-poor impression with over one fifth of the Canadian population. That means a *significant* number of potential fans have already received the message that this league doesn't care about them. It's pretty damn hard to penetrate a market you've needlessly ignored/insulted. 

For all the reasons I've been explaining, this a horribly impractical business decision - you can't alienate a fifth of your potential fanbase and suddenly expect them to come around when it's convenient for you. That investment should have been made upfront in order to get the proper payoff. At bare minimum, it needs to be made now. The longer this goes on, the worse the return on investment will be. 

[m-g-williams]

27 minutes ago, Lofty said:

So you don't agree with their business decision. That is fine but it's not your business!

I disagree entirely with your rather hysterical analysis of the consequences of not being bilingual from the outset and believe, as CPL apparently do, that the vast majority of Francophones will embrace their CPL teams when they arrive.

Oh, it's totally outside of my hands - I just can't wrap my head around how a league "For Canadians, by Canadians" ended up being a league "For Anglos, by Anglos". It's a shortsighted decision that sees the league shoot themselves in the foot among a lot of potential fans. 

Will people ultimately hop on the bandwagon? Of course they will. But the way the league has approached this is going to make it a lot more difficult than it needs to be. The Sens had the same problem here in Ottawa with Francos, as did the Fury. They've turned it around (to an extent), but only years later and after a lot of concerted effort. If people are already fretting over attendance numbers, One Soccer subscriptions, etc., not investing that little bit extra up front to ensure bilingual content only exacerbates the problem. 

I'm really not trying to argue with you, and certainly don't want to engage in post-mortem equine flagellation. If ever you're in Ottawa, give me a shout and we can continue the banter over a pint on me.

(Though for the record, the "hysterical" comment is pretty uncalled for. "Exasperated" maybe, but not "hysterical")

Edited November 1, 2019 by m-g-williams