2018 FIFA WCQ CONCACAF Rd 4, Matchday 4: Tues 29 Mar 2016, Canada @ Mexico, 1030pm ET, 730pm PT

[IceCreamMan]

Reaching for positives I thought James exceeded all expectations. Has a lot of the athleticism of Henry but showed better ball skills and decision making tonight. He's kind of an after thought in Hungary but he may have more upside then we give him credit for. 

[balfe]

I caught the second half, I taught Canada done alright despite Mexico controlling possession. When Canada had the ball they rarely panicked, yeah they lost the ball a lot, but at least they weren't pumping long balls and isolating Larin up top, I was actually quite impressed with some of the play out of the back. I also caught the half time break and heard De Vos mention the short corners, criminal really, considering Mexico are not known to have big team this is an area which Canada should be thriving in in these kind of games.

Anyway Mexico are a quality team and I enjoy watching them play, that second goal was a peach, games against the Mexico's of this world in the likes of the Azteca are not games Canada need to worry about, we need to be able to prove we're better then Honduras, El Salvador etc on a consistent basis if we ever want to qualify for a major international tournament again. 

[C2SKI]

Ooof. It won't be an easy path to success. Are we any better than 4 years ago? Are we any different?

[Yohan]

1 minute ago, C2SKI said:

Ooof. It won't be an easy path to success. Are we any better than 4 years ago? Are we any different?

Ironic, considering Stephen Hart is about to get T&T into the Hex, with a squad of basically scrubs (in comparison to Canada)

[nolbertos]

3 minutes ago, Yohan said:

Ironic, considering Stephen Hart is about to get T&T into the Hex, with a squad of basically scrubs (in comparison to Canada)

Yeah Stephen Hart had an easier group though to the Hex.  If he were in Canada's group, I seriously doubt T & T would be in the running for the Hex.  Jack Warner got T & T a great draw before his incarceration.

[MrX]

7 minutes ago, balfe said:

I caught the second half, I taught Canada done alright despite Mexico controlling possession.

I agree completely. But that's what's frustrating. There are a few changes and simple training that the team could do to beat Mexico. Yes, BEAT them. The Canadian team is playing against so many negatives, I'd like to see what they can do when given a chance and some actual training. But no one on the team has that belief (and some of them just plainly need to be replaced). They can be much better than they're letting themselves believe.

1 minute ago, C2SKI said:

Ooof. It won't be an easy path to success. Are we any better than 4 years ago? Are we any different?

There are indeed a few things that are better.

1. We don't do long balls anymore (not as many anyways) except for the goalkeeper who keeps doing it.

2. Passing is VERY much improved.

3. Less prone to panic.

4. Is actually very good at moving the ball forward from our half into the opponent's half when they want. (the lack of "want" is another issue).

The problem is still that we have no clue nor the skill to know what to do when we get near the opponent's box. That's just fatal to a team.

We have a team that CAN move the ball forward against any team on the planet. I'd just really like to see what would happen with a proper formation, some strikers that can actually hit the net and forwards that can cross. All basic things that are under our control.

Some people say that Mexico is a good team and they didn't expect a different outcome anyways. Two things wrong there. First, it is possible to beat Mexico. They make a lot of mistakes that we're not capitalizing on. But more importantly is that there are too many things under our control that we're not doing. So it's not that Mexico is better. It's that Canada could be better. We all see it. How many times has a half time interview gone where we hear "we're not hitting the target."? This is under OUR control. Not anyone else's.

 

[-Hammer-]

16 minutes ago, MrX said:

I've been watching for a while and there are a few things I don't understand. 

1. 4-1-4-1 What the hell is this? Is this the "defense+midfield and no attack and no scoring chance" formation? If there's no one to cross, wtf? The forward corner positions are of ultimate importance for scoring and we've left that empty?

2. That brings me to why no one on the team can cross? Not on the field and not on corners.

3. Which brings me to why no one can do corners? Every single person on the team should be able to kick the ball directly into the net from the corner or put it anywhere they want in the box 100% of the time. None of them can.

4. Which brings me to why they didn't even try to use the corner kicks? Three corners and not a single ball in the box?

5. What is wrong with Piette? Not once was he able to keep the ball when a Mexican player challenged him.

6. What is wrong with Larin? He cannot receive the ball and cannot kick the ball. What is he doing on the team?

7. Suppose a coach were trying to ensure that Canada not win, what would they do differently than what Floro is doing? Now, I would never ever say this is what he is doing. I'm asking an honest question. As a hypothetical, what would you do differently to ruin Canada's chances? 4-1-4-1 is a good start, but Floro is doing that. Not taking corners is another good start. We're doing that too. Disconnected defense and midfielders is yet another good tactic. Check. Having a lone striker and no crossers is a perfect way to never score. Check. Especially with a striker that can neither receive nor kick the ball. So much so that Mexico always has 8+ players in Canada's half. Short of removing the goalkeeper, what is there that can be done?

8. Why is it that all players don't know the basics of football? They can't cross, the strikers always do air balls, there's no give and go. They can't do corners. They can't do headers... on the rare occasions that they do get a good cross. The passing is ok and much improved from past years, sure. But it's just abysmal.

I don't get it. If we can't score, we can't win. Simple as that. If our strikers aren't doing the job, they need to be replaced, but we never see any shakeup. Also, when the opposing team gets a shot on net, the players are supposed to be VERY VERY angry. But no one is. There is no sense of urgency. No aggressiveness at all.

There are better players in Canada. This much is certain. You can get players that can cross. You can get players that can do corners. You can get players that can do all the basics of football that no one on this team can do.

But first, the coach needs to believe and actually set up the team to win.

We're not making the Hex. There's just no way. We can't tie in Honduras unless we get a very lucky goal or Honduras makes some very extreme mistakes because we're set up from the start to lose in every way, shape and form.

 

 

I fully agree on the corners. Why the heck is the team taking so many short corners?

As far as the formation, the story of this and the last game was Larin by himself being left high and dry, being unable to cross, being unable to generate offence on his own. Honestly, as far as I can tell Larin is only out there to cherry pick, in the hopes a defender will screw up. What is the point of staggering your mid fielders if your front 4 mid-fielders never help out the lone forward? Either run a 4-5-1 and accept you are trying to pull a draw, or get someone up there to backup Larin.

Good defensive play by our guys, save for Henry who seemed simply outclassed by Corona. However, that said, I think we can accept the team have learned how to defend, more offensive aggression is needed. Most importantly De Vos was completely right about the corner kicks being wasted. Multiple short corners, without even a chance to setup anything in the box. 

[balfe]

3 minutes ago, MrX said:

I agree completely. But that's what's frustrating. There are a few changes and simple training that the team could do to beat Mexico. Yes, BEAT them. The Canadian team is playing against so many negatives, I'd like to see what they can do when given a chance and some actual training. But no one on the team has that belief (and some of them just plainly need to be replaced). They can be much better than they're letting themselves believe.

There are indeed a few things that are better.

1. We don't do long balls anymore (not as many anyways) except for the goalkeeper who keeps doing it.

2. Passing is VERY much improved.

3. Less prone to panic.

4. Is actually very good at moving the ball forward from our half into the opponent's half when they want. (the lack of "want" is another issue).

The problem is still that we have no clue nor the skill to know what to do when we get near the opponent's box. That's just fatal to a team.

We have a team that CAN move the ball forward against any team on the planet. I'd just really like to see what would happen with a proper formation, some strikers that can actually hit the net and forwards that can cross. All basic things that are under our control.

Some people say that Mexico is a good team and they didn't expect a different outcome anyways. Two things wrong there. First, it is possible to beat Mexico. They make a lot of mistakes that we're not capitalizing on. But more importantly is that there are too many things under our control that we're not doing. So it's not that Mexico is better. It's that Canada could be better. We all see it. How many times has a half time interview gone where we hear "we're not hitting the target."? This is under OUR control. Not anyone else's.

 

To go away and beat a team like Mexico you need to have something about you, and it's something Canada has been missing forever. Look at that little number 10 Corona, to be able to produce a players like that you need to have more then proper training and good coaches, you need to have an identity, a way of paying as a team and a nation. Mexico have it and it doesn't always guarantee success, but more times then not the way they play shines through.

When has Canada ever had a player who would grab the number 10 jersey and say "I'm the main guy here" and run the show, De Rosario maybe? I dunno, anyway I get what you are saying about training and covering the basics, at the end of they day most of these guy are at pro clubs, surely they would be working hard under Floro all week, going through set pieces and what not.

[MtlMario]

The most important game now is in Honduras.A WIN there and everything will fall into place.El Salvador shouldn't be a problem at home. See how life is simple.

[BearcatSA]

5 hours ago, Soccerpro said:

Why can't Cyle Larin trap a simple ball in a Canada jersey, but he can score a goal every game in Orlando?

Its got nothing to do with service, he can't do anything when he plays for Canada. His finishing is awful, his shielding of the ball is bad, his passing is bad, everything.

Perhaps it also says more about MLS defending?

[BearcatSA]

5 hours ago, Soccerpro said:

We have 1 goal in 4 games. That goal was a header that bounced off a Canadian player's back, who was lying on the ground.

Ill let that settle in.

If you include Gold Cup matches, that's one goal in seven matches.

[Coramoor]

I have no idea why anyone thinks games against Mexico are particularly indicative of anything. The only thing the Mexicans have truly shown me that I didn't already know was that Larin is very one footed. 

James was very impressive.

Akindele probably needs a few more minutes in games and basically seemed like a better version of Ricketts with less defensive ability.

The point of Floro-ball is to get draws in places like Honduras and El Salvador, it doesn't suddenly solve the fact that Mexico is a far superior team.

 

[BearcatSA]

Getting a point here was a big time long shot, so keeping it at 2-0 isn't unexpected (in fact pretty decent, considering our personnel and the venue).  Glad to hear that James had a good game:  I really think he has a lot of upside.  

How did Ledgerwood do?  

I could see us grinding out a scoreless result in Honduras.  Unfortuately, I could also see us doing the same at home to ES.

  

[zeelaw]

In the mess of selecting the back-line, I feel like we haven't even discussed our lack of goal scoring again.  

One lucky goal where Larin scores with his ass in four games.

[zeelaw]

4 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Perhaps it also says more about MLS defending?

I went through this thought last night after watching him again.  

[Guest]

One thing to think about is Arfield should be in the BPL when we face Honduras.

[Canadian Pride]

23 minutes ago, canta15 said:

One thing to think about is Arfield should be in the BPL when we face Honduras.

lets just hope he's healthy and ready to go.

[Lord Bob]

James and Henry were Canada's two best players. A triumph for Benito Floro.

[zeelaw]

16 minutes ago, Benjamin Massey said:

James and Henry were Canada's two best players. A triumph for Benito Floro.

Lol

[BearcatSA]

48 minutes ago, Canadian Pride said:

lets just hope he's healthy and ready to go.

I think supporters forget how young he is.  He's only had one season of professional soccer under his belt and that needs to be remembered.  He is off to a strong start at club level again this season.  However, I was pretty disappointed in the manner with which he missed his scoring chance on Friday night.  I, like the all the others here, hope he'll indeed turn out to be a top quality striker who goes above and beyond MLS and shines consistently for us at international level.  

[king1010]

8 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

I think supporters forget how young he is.  He's only had one season of professional soccer under his belt and that needs to be remembered.  He is off to a strong start at club level again this season.  However, I was pretty disappointed in the manner with which he missed his scoring chance on Friday night.  I, like the all the others here, hope he'll indeed turn out to be a top quality striker who goes above and beyond MLS and shines consistently for us at international level.  

wasn't his original healthy comment regarding arfield and not larin?

[Red Renaissance]

Im sorry but Larin is horrible. He can only hold the ball up decently, besides that most passes are a give away or hes muscled off the ball too easily. Maybe its just luck but I have never seen him play a good game. A guy of his size should be more physically dominant. I realize he has a lack of support cast but he must improve. His national team career is summarized by that miss against El Salvador

[king1010]

2 minutes ago, Red Renaissance said:

Im sorry but Larin is horrible. He can only hold the ball up decently, besides that most passes are a give away or hes muscled off the ball too easily. Maybe its just luck but I have never seen him play a good game. A guy of his size should be more physically dominant. I realize he has a lack of support cast but he must improve. His national team career is summarized by that miss against El Salvador

he is night and day when compared to his form with orlando

[Bison44]

Which other CDN striker was going to look good against mexico? Alex Bunbury??  Come on, Larin is not horrible, he is up front with little to no support (because midfield is outclassed by mexicans) and we didn't generate much offense.  He at least looked a little better when chasing long balls, he did muscle the defense on those occasions.  But doing all the good things he does in MLS and expecting him to walk into honduras or mexico etc and do the same with little support (due to floros system) isn't realisitic.  He isn't 2 different people, the same guy with the quick shot that scores in bunches for orlando is the same guy that struggled against world class opposition last night.  We are forgetting he has played maybe 35 pro games.  I cant remember the mexican sub last night they were talking about, but he was early 20s and Devos said he had over 100 pro games under his belt.  

[The Ref]

10 hours ago, MrX said:

I've been watching for a while and there are a few things I don't understand. 

1. 4-1-4-1 What the hell is this? Is this the "defense+midfield and no attack and no scoring chance" formation? If there's no one to cross, wtf? The forward corner positions are of ultimate importance for scoring and we've left that empty?

2. That brings me to why no one on the team can cross? Not on the field and not on corners.

3. Which brings me to why no one can do corners? Every single person on the team should be able to kick the ball directly into the net from the corner or put it anywhere they want in the box 100% of the time. None of them can.

4. Which brings me to why they didn't even try to use the corner kicks? Three corners and not a single ball in the box?

5. What is wrong with Piette? Not once was he able to keep the ball when a Mexican player challenged him.

6. What is wrong with Larin? He cannot receive the ball and cannot kick the ball. What is he doing on the team?

7. Suppose a coach were trying to ensure that Canada not win, what would they do differently than what Floro is doing? Now, I would never ever say this is what he is doing. I'm asking an honest question. As a hypothetical, what would you do differently to ruin Canada's chances? 4-1-4-1 is a good start, but Floro is doing that. Not taking corners is another good start. We're doing that too. Disconnected defense and midfielders is yet another good tactic. Check. Having a lone striker and no crossers is a perfect way to never score. Check. Especially with a striker that can neither receive nor kick the ball. So much so that Mexico always has 8+ players in Canada's half. Short of removing the goalkeeper, what is there that can be done?

8. Why is it that all players don't know the basics of football? They can't cross, the strikers always do air balls, there's no give and go. They can't do corners. They can't do headers... on the rare occasions that they do get a good cross. The passing is ok and much improved from past years, sure. But it's just abysmal.

I don't get it. If we can't score, we can't win. Simple as that. If our strikers aren't doing the job, they need to be replaced, but we never see any shakeup. Also, when the opposing team gets a shot on net, the players are supposed to be VERY VERY angry. But no one is. There is no sense of urgency. No aggressiveness at all.

There are better players in Canada. This much is certain. You can get players that can cross. You can get players that can do corners. You can get players that can do all the basics of football that no one on this team can do.

But first, the coach needs to believe and actually set up the team to win.

We're not making the Hex. There's just no way. We can't tie in Honduras unless we get a very lucky goal or Honduras makes some very extreme mistakes because we're set up from the start to lose in every way, shape and form.

 

 

Great analysis.  I think we couldn't have played worst even if we tried.  Insofar as Floro, the old man doesn't want to win, he just doesn't know how to and does not want to be hammered.