2016 Red Team Playoff Clinching Watch (aka Toronto FC 2016 MLS season thread)

[TRM]

1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

With regards to the actual thread title itself, TFC can clinch a playoff spot with a win this weekend.

Cool. Would that be the earliest clinch by a Canadian team? I think it would. Go for it!

[jpg75]

4 hours ago, Yohan said:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/09/14/how-french-coaching-course-changing-face-mls-academies

Interesting article on the FFA course that Vanney and Dichio took (Can't remember who got this course from IMFC and VWFC)

Fantastic. I really like the points about the FFF method of guided discovery and how that contrasts with the "over-coaching" going on in NA and the tactical illiteracy of our players. 

[Complete Homer]

3 hours ago, El Hombre said:

With regards to the actual thread title itself, TFC can clinch a playoff spot with a win this weekend.

It is pretty shocking they haven't already, considering how close we are to the end of the season. Just shows how close the standings are

[Gian-Luca]

12 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

It is pretty shocking they haven't already, considering how close we are to the end of the season. Just shows how close the standings are

Mathematically they haven't clinched but it's pretty close to being a certainty already - it would take an incredible run of wins from a couple of teams plus TFC to lose every game (including 5 in a row at home) for the playoffs not to happen. Possible but not very likely.

[Complete Homer]

Just now, Gian-Luca said:

Mathematically they haven't clinched but it's pretty close to being a certainty already - it would take an incredible run of wins from a couple of teams plus TFC to lose every game (including 5 in a row at home) for the playoffs not to happen. Possible but not very likely.

Oh I know but it is still amazing that we are in the supporters shield discussion with a couple games to go and it is still in the realm of possibilities that TFC gets eliminated 

I bet in that particular multiverse some angry fans throw Vanney off a bridge whole BMO goes up in flames 

[Dub Narcotic]

15 hours ago, jpg75 said:

Fantastic. I really like the points about the FFF method of guided discovery and how that contrasts with the "over-coaching" going on in NA and the tactical illiteracy of our players. 

Yes, this was a very nice story. It's interesting that it's a bit of a risk for the academy coaches to take the course given that they can easily fail and jeopardise their jobs.

[Yohan]

http://www.wakingthered.com/2016/9/15/12932896/tfc-academy-heads-to-frances-illustrious-clairefontaine-fff-mls-partnership

TFC academy kids get a training stint at Clairefontaine thanks to MLS-FFF partnership (Tim Bez probably had 2 cents in this too)

[shermanator]

Looks like my thread title is now officially accurate...

 

[jpg75]

Thanks Trillium for believing in this club.

[Dub Narcotic]

On 9/15/2016 at 6:12 PM, Yohan said:

Gre

[Dub Narcotic]

Great game today to watch although Toronto probably was lucky to get the point. Cooper looks like a big upgrade over Delgado and once Giovionco get back and Cooper can go ninety minutes this will be a very tough squad to play. Beitashour and Altidore were immense today, as were Klejstan and Wright-Cooper for RB (when did Klejstan get this good?). Toronto's main worry is Zavaleta at CB, not only is he very average but he's a very similar player to Moor which hurts the effectiveness of their partnership. Now, going against what is probably the best team in the league will expose every single weak spot, but that's a big spot they should look at upgrading next year. 

Otherwise, I thought both Bradley and Osorio were a bit off, Delgado was poor and I don't know why Endoh and Lovitz see the field over Babouli. I wouldn't bring either of those two back next year, they aren't that young or that good, although they are probably both fringe MLS level. How many wide-open crosses did Endoh hit into the stands or the first man? 

[Gian-Luca]

It's strange that TFC have somehow officially clinched a spot, whereas Dallas are 5 points ahead of them and haven't - yet the 7th place team in the West only has one more point than the two teams tied for 7th in the east. I can only assume that NE, DC & Orlando have a lot of games against each other and so all they can't possibly get three points for every single game they have left (as otherwise, a team on 34 points with 5 games left should be able to get to 49 if they win them all - TFC only have 47 at the moment.

[Ruffian]

13 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said:

Great game today to watch although Toronto probably was lucky to get the point. Cooper looks like a big upgrade over Delgado and once Giovionco get back and Cooper can go ninety minutes this will be a very tough squad to play. Beitashour and Altidore were immense today, as were Klejstan and Wright-Cooper for RB (when did Klejstan get this good?). Toronto's main worry is Zavaleta at CB, not only is he very average but he's a very similar player to Moor which hurts the effectiveness of their partnership. Now, going against what is probably the best team in the league will expose every single weak spot, but that's a big spot they should look at upgrading next year. 

Otherwise, I thought both Bradley and Osorio were a bit off, Delgado was poor and I don't know why Endoh and Lovitz see the field over Babouli. I wouldn't bring either of those two back next year, they aren't that young or that good, although they are probably both fringe MLS level. How many wide-open crosses did Endoh hit into the stands or the first man? 

Beitashour had a good game other than the 3rd goal where he didn't get back in time and left Zav all alone with two New Jersey players. Beita's fault.

The first goal was Bradley and Morrow looking at each other and not getting the ball and the New Jersey player beat them to it and made the cross for the own goal.

The second goal was Zav's big feet making him fall over.

[paul-collins]

12 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

 I can only assume that NE, DC & Orlando have a lot of games against each other and so all they can't possibly get three points for every single game they have left

Yes, that's exactly it.  Points available for the other teams as a whole, not in isolation.

[Gian-Luca]

33 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

Beitashour had a good game other than the 3rd goal where he didn't get back in time and left Zav all alone with two New Jersey players. Beita's fault.

The first goal was Bradley and Morrow looking at each other and not getting the ball and the New Jersey player beat them to it and made the cross for the own goal.

The second goal was Zav's big feet making him fall over.

I have a different take on goals #1 and #3 in terms of who is to blame. First, it should be noted that in both cases Delgado gave the ball away needlessly and without that much pressure applied to him and TFC didn't re-gain possession until after the ball was in the back of the net. The same thing happened on another play that NY should have scored on, when BWP was all alone against a stranded Bono and chipped the keeper but missed the net. I was amazed that Delgado was not taken off at the half and Vanney quickly regretted his decision on that since his play cost TFC another goal early in the third. On that goal, Delgado in addition to giving the ball away also did not track back efficiently, he tried to recover the ball that he gave away but instead marked the same player that Morrow had (and Morrow himself didn't apply enough pressure on the NYRB player who passed it easily enough of him). Compounding this was Bradley falling asleep by ball watching on the play and not marking Klejstan, which meant that Zavaleta then had a 2-1 to deal with (generally I though Klejstan did a much better job of marking Bradley than Bradley did of marking him). Beitashour had been way up the field (he was the one who crossed the ball at the end line which led to Delgado unnecessarily giving the ball away in the first plac)I don't think it's realistic to expect Beitashour to sprint back the entire length of the field in time to get all the way back into position, particularly since all Bradley had to do was to stay goal-side of Klejstan and TFC would have had the requisite numbers to defend the play (or alternatively, Delgado could have moved centrally instead of trying to mark the same man as Morrow).

On the first goal, it is Morrow who is caught up the field during an attack and Delgado (who gave the ball away) who needs to cover for Morrow at left back. In addition to giving the ball away, Delgado does a poor job, vacating the space and allowing the despicable Felipe to enter it and cross the ball in where Beitashour doesn't really have much choice other than to try to block the cross.

[Gian-Luca]

As for Osorio, other than the blown chance that Hamilton set him up beautifully for in the first half (after NYRB's first goal), I thought it was one of his better games where it felt like he really stepped up to the plate by demanding the ball & helping to advance it. Somebody mentioned a couple of weeks ago that Osorio's stats were poor as a playmaker, but I had countered by saying the stats could be a bit deceiving. I hold out this game as evidence for that - yes, he was credited with an assist on the first TFC goal, but re-watching the game, he made some crucial plays in the middle of the park on the second and third goals, regaining and keeping his team in possession and then playing the ball forward into the strikers and helped to put them into position to score (or to be fouled in a dangerous spot and score, in the case of the 2nd). I would actually say his work on the 2nd and 3rd goals were more impressive but he didn't get credited with an assist on either goal (if it was the NHL, they probably would have given him an assist on the 3rd goal as well - he passed it to Altidore who then played what turned out to be a 1-2 with Bradley, but MLS stats don't work that way).

[Ivan]

I thought Osorio had a good game.  I also thought Hamilton was the best TFC player on the pitch in the first half, causing all kinds of trouble for the NYRB defence.  Not nearly as noticeable in the second half - but perhaps the Red Bulls realized they had to cover him, which opened up time and space for Jozy to take the game over?   

[shermanator]

That game was the perfect example of why I get so frustrated that mediocre American players get chance after chance at TFC. I thought Zavaleta, Lovitz and Endoh were all quite poor in that game. I imagine Babouli could have done a better job than either Lovitz or Endoh going forward, and I'm not a big Babouli supporter. 

Delgado was incredibly poor as well, but he's had more bright spots this year and I would not rate him in the same category as the other three.

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, Ivan said:

I thought Osorio had a good game.  I also thought Hamilton was the best TFC player on the pitch in the first half, causing all kinds of trouble for the NYRB defence.  Not nearly as noticeable in the second half - but perhaps the Red Bulls realized they had to cover him, which opened up time and space for Jozy to take the game over?   

I agree that he had a good first half and actually should have been sent in all alone by Altidore late in the game but Jozy kept the ball and got off only a week shot (however, he made up for it big-time in the 2nd half). I suspect that if so many other TFC players hadn't had such a poor first half, causing a formation change and a couple of players to be subbed off, Hamilton may not have gone the 90 because he didn't do much offensively in the last 30 minutes and there's only so many subs that Vanney could make - that said, he did well to win a key defensive header in the box late in the game.

 

[Ivan]

3 hours ago, shermanator said:

That game was the perfect example of why I get so frustrated that mediocre American players get chance after chance at TFC. I thought Zavaleta, Lovitz and Endoh were all quite poor in that game. I imagine Babouli could have done a better job than either Lovitz or Endoh going forward, and I'm not a big Babouli supporter. 

Delgado was incredibly poor as well, but he's had more bright spots this year and I would not rate him in the same category as the other three.

I agree with most of this post.  Delgado is either decent (I like him as a holding midfielder rather than on the wing) or really bad - case in point Sunday.  I put Zavaleta in the same category, but he is more consistent than Delgado.

I had the pleasure of watching the Montreal game with Greatest Cockney Ripoff and we share your opinion of Endoh.  I honestly couldn't believe they were bringing him into yesterday's game.  Useless player.  I put Lovitz in the same category.  Both can run, but balls go to die when sent to them.  I could almost sense TFC players avoiding passing to Endoh as the game went on.

[Gian-Luca]

So TFC become (possibly) the first team in professional sports history to have un-clinched a spot in the playoffs. Fans posting on the mlssoccer.com were apparently better at math than the people employed by the MLS as they were able to figure out that, if about 20 results went perfectly wrong for TFC (including losing their last 5 games and having NE & DC run the table with NYRB losing three out of their last four), they could still miss the playoffs. Meanwhile the same people figured out that Dallas had actually clinched a playoff spot, so now the article about TFC being the first team to clinch a spot has been edited to read that Dallas became the first team to clinch a playoff spot. Unfortunately the thousands in the stadium and watching on tv who were told this probably won't hear about until next week when, in all likelihood, even if TFC lose they could re-clinch a playoff spot depending on how other results go. TFC have had the "x" next to their name removed.

Somebody in MLS needs to lose their job over this PR cock-up...

[Big_M]

Babouli needs to get some time to be ready if they need to bring in a technical player in the playoffs.

[Free kick]

Responding to Shermanators post (quote got deleted)

 

 I agree that players like Endoh, Lovitz and maybe Delgado do often look marginal, inconsistent or poor.  But TFC has fielded lineups this year with often 3 or 4 canadians, thats pretty good.  Montreal has a canadian coach and we have not seen anywhere in the same universe the kind of minutes awarded to canadian players on the Impact.  Vancouver is pretty much the same.  Yet no one (much less their own fans - even on this forum) focuses the same  attention to this. 

Babouili, i thought, got a fair chance earlier in the season.  For attacking players, in this business, you have to produce (ie.: score goals or create goals or create chances).  Unlike, players like Endoh, Delgado and even Hamilton, Babouili hasnt produced.  Each of those guys have scored and maybe thats why they  are starting head of him.  Hamilton, deservedly, beat out Babouili for one of the spots up front.  Dont mean to sound cliché or overstate the obvious, but thats how its works.  

Next year, there will once again be a few noncanadians in the squad who are not stars on the club but are maybe a little more experinced or more developed, or fill a specific role or fit under a cap.  And inevitably, there will be be some rookie academy kid whole is going to have to earn his spot.   I am ok with this.  

[Gian-Luca]

2 hours ago, Free kick said:

 

Babouili, i thought, got a fair chance earlier in the season.  For attacking players, in this business, you have to produce (ie.: score goals or create goals or create chances).  Unlike, players like Endoh, Delgado and even Hamilton, Babouili hasnt produced. 

I disagree here with the comparison to Endoh. Babouli in the limited time he's had produced far more in terms of creating goals & creating chances. He's the only player on the team that Giovinco has publicly apologized to for squandering the chances that were provided to him by that player (this is Giovinco, the same guy who has regularly publicly screamed at Endoh & Delgado for that matter).

In terms of scoring goals, Endoh has legitimately scored 1, he was credited with another goal that he knew nothing about as it touched his hair on the way into the net from a Giovinco shot from distance. He has zero assists this season in MLS play. Babouli has one official assist in MLS play but was also the leading playmaker for TFC in the Voyageurs Cup this year - he set up two goals against Montreal & one versus Vancouver. If we are to be extremely charitable, we could give Endoh credit for setting up the Cup winning goal by Johnson but  it was actually a woeful ball into the box nowhere near any TFC player that the Whitecaps keeper & defender completely botched. Even if you were to count that, and giving him the goal off his hair that he "scored", he will have 2 goals scored and 1 goal created for three goals created in all competitions, whereas Babouli would have four created goals which still tops Endoh's total contribution despite the fact that by now Endoh has had well over twice the playing time this season.

Endoh has had far more opportunities to create chances than Babouli has and in the past five or six games (since Babouli hasn't played ironically) he's squandered most of them. Every time they have brought him on as a sub to try to get a goal to level the score or where they are a man up, he has been ineffective. Against Montreal he even helped to cost them the game as he didn't track back to cover Piatti on the play, letting him run past him, even though he was supposed to be representing fresh legs off the bench. Ok, it was a rookie mistake, but we are comparing rookies here, and it's about time to give Mo another opportunity when they need someone to play up on right wing instead of Endoh.

[jpg75]

Anytime someone wants to make a favourable comparison between Endoh and another player, please watch the 2nd half of the San Jose-TFC game from this summer when we couldn't break down a 9 man SJ team and ended up losing.