Canadian Premier League

[Diamondium]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

I think it will be hard for Americans to find jobs in CPL. They will be treated as internationals and I'd rather pay cheaper for a CONCACAF player who's most likely more naturally gifted than an American.

I think there could be a moderate amount of demand for Americans in the CPL. If we are above NASL quality, there will be some Americans who occupy that dead zone of talent of being too good for NASL but not good enough for MLS. Those players would be more than willing to play in CPL at a pretty affordable cost, since culturally Canada isn't much of an adjustment to USA compared to other places they would have opportunities.

Plus CPL teams wouldn't mind having them either for that same reason, since the team won't have to worry as much about the player not adjusting well and underperforming as a result compared to other CONCACAF players.

[shermanator]

How about a few more clips from the old CSL? Looks like a decent crowd in Hamilton on this particular game?

 

[Ansem]

8 minutes ago, Diamondium said:

I think there could be a moderate amount of demand for Americans in the CPL. If we are above NASL quality, there will be some Americans who occupy that dead zone of talent of being too good for NASL but not good enough for MLS. Those players would be more than willing to play in CPL at a pretty affordable cost, since culturally Canada isn't much of an adjustment to USA compared to other places they would have opportunities.

Plus CPL teams wouldn't mind having them either for that same reason, since the team won't have to worry as much about the player not adjusting well and underperforming as a result compared to other CONCACAF players.

I could see some of that happening at first in some teams as it's unknown how extensive the CPL scouting department will be at launch, so getting Americans in the meantime is easier. However, they aren't that gifted when compared to CONCACAF nations in terms of skills, technique and raw talent/potential. I'd rather they put a Canadian who's rough around the edge than an American. Save the International spot for someone that could have a real impact on the team.

That's mostly why Canadians are so rare in MLS. The same logic applies in reverse. If an American is clearly gifted, sign him but they are most likely already in MLS. If an American is of similar skill than an available Canadian, put the Canadian on the field

[matty]

16 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I think it will be hard for Americans to find jobs in CPL.

I highly doubt that. They'll be willing to sign for decent prices and will have the advantage of language.

Also, calling the other CONCACAF nations naturally gifted and skilled compared to Americans is a grossly unsupported comment.

[Ansem]

18 minutes ago, matty said:

I highly doubt that. They'll be willing to sign for decent prices and will have the advantage of language.

Also, calling the other CONCACAF nations naturally gifted and skilled compared to Americans is a grossly unsupported comment.

If they counted as domestics, I'd 100% agree with you but as Internationals? I doubt teams would waste those spots on them when there's better talent out there. Like Manning said, the amount of talent available in the world is huge. Granted we won't find a Messi or Bale but I find hard to believe that CPL teams won't find an International that's more gifted than an American who can't play in MLS or who's at NASL level. Could happen, but would have to be a very good one like a Larin, Osorio or Johnson in the opposite context.

Not saying they'll be no Americans, but I think there won't be a lot of them either. Also, the American domestic pool is hugely being overrated.

Caribbean nations mostly speak English except 3-4 countries like Haiti, Dominican Republic, Cuba. Central America,  Spanish. 

[Alex D]

With the rapid expansion of MLS and the aggressiveness of a few NASL clubs there are not that many players in purgatory. Add to that moving to another country and playing for Canadian dollars, I don't think we will see an abundance of Americans. 

[Diamondium]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

If they counted as domestics, I'd 100% agree with you but as Internationals? I doubt teams would waste those spots on them when there's better talent out there. Like Manning said, the amount of talent available in the world is huge. Granted we won't find a Messi or Bale but I find hard to believe that CPL teams won't find an International that's more gifted than an American who can't play in MLS or who's at NASL level. Could happen, but would have to be a very good one like a Larin, Osorio or Johnson in return.

Not saying they'll be no Americans, but I think there won't be a lot of them either.

Also, the American domestic pool is hugely being overrated.

It's just that we're not the only dogs in the park here. If there's any good talent undiscovered in a small country, what gives the impression that it will be a CPL team that finds them? Sure, it would be great if we could find diamonds in the rough left and right but every other team in the world is scouring unknown nations to try to find diamonds in the rough as well. 

From a CPL team's perspective, it's much more cost effective to spend your money looking at an American player who needs a place to play than to spend loads of money scouting, importing, and settling in foreign players who might end up a bit higher quality than that American. 

Sure, there will be foreign scouting in these small countries and CPL teams will get a few of them, but a CPL team likely won't have the necessary scouting networks to outperform the big guns when it comes to this. We'll have to take what we can get. If what we can get is from USA, Honduras, or freaking Antractica, so be it. I just think we need to be realistic about what we're going to be getting here, and the fact that we're not going to magically find good players that other teams can't find.

[matty]

17 minutes ago, Ansem said:

If they counted as domestics, I'd 100% agree with you but as Internationals? I doubt teams would waste those spots on them when there's better talent out there. Like Manning said, the amount of talent available in the world is huge. Granted we won't find a Messi or Bale but I find hard to believe that CPL teams won't find an International that's more gifted than an American who can't play in MLS or who's at NASL level. Could happen, but would have to be a very good one like a Larin, Osorio or Johnson in the opposite context.

Not saying they'll be no Americans, but I think there won't be a lot of them either. Also, the American domestic pool is hugely being overrated.

Caribbean nations mostly speak English except 3-4 countries like Haiti, Dominican Republic, Cuba. Central America,  Spanish. 

I think you're also overrating the remainder of concacaf's talent pool, which outside if mexico and to an extent costa rica is weaker than America.

You're more likely to secure solid players from America than say Panama where the talent will want is national team talent playing on thr high playing clubs.

A lot of the Caribbean does not speak English and many of those that do are  a fair bit weaker than Canada.

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, Diamondium said:

It's just that we're not the only dogs in the park here. If there's any good talent undiscovered in a small country, what gives the impression that it will be a CPL team that finds them? Sure, it would be great if we could find diamonds in the rough left and right but every other team in the world is scouring unknown nations to try to find diamonds in the rough as well. 

I did point out that the scouting factor initially is unknown for the CPL. Still, the pool of available players out there is huge. The top leagues gets the best, but there's still talent left regardless. I go back to the Haitians playing abroad, some play in France, some in India, and the talented Guerrier in Tunisia. No we aren't alone in the scouting world but I'd like to think that due to proximity, we'd have the edge at scouting our own backyard down the road than India, Middle East and Asia, even Europe who are more focus on South America, Africa and Europe itself.

7 minutes ago, Diamondium said:

From a CPL team's perspective, it's much more cost effective to spend your money looking at an American player who needs a place to play than to spend loads of money scouting, importing, and settling in foreign players who might end up a bit higher quality than that American. 

Spending on scouting is inevitable. Cost effective how? You'd have to pay him in Canadian an amount that surpass what he could be making in the US in American dollars and he won't likely be a difference maker on your team, while most CONCACAF nations will be glad to be paid in Canadian dollars and most likely make a difference as an international

10 minutes ago, Diamondium said:

Sure, there will be foreign scouting in these small countries and CPL teams will get a few of them, but a CPL team likely won't have the necessary scouting networks to outperform the big guns when it comes to this. We'll have to take what we can get. If what we can get is from USA, Honduras, or freaking Antractica, so be it. I just think we need to be realistic about what we're going to be getting here, and the fact that we're not going to magically find good players that other teams can't find.

Again, there's plenty of talent to go around. As for scouting, it's up to CPL club to hire scouters that already have connection and their networks. No way they start from scratch.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

35 minutes ago, shermanator said:

How about a few more clips from the old CSL? Looks like a decent crowd in Hamilton on this particular game?

 

Have been trying to work out who the opponent is. Think it's the 86ers which would help explain the impressive looking crowd (by original CSL standards), but have no idea why their defenders wouldn't form a wall? That looks absolutely absurd and something one of the weaker teams would have done. The Steelers had more of a following than the two Toronto teams did, so it was very bad for the CSL when they folded between the 1991 and 1992 seasons and very much a sign that the league was on borrowed time.

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, matty said:

I think you're also overrating the remainder of concacaf's talent pool, which outside if mexico and to an extent costa rica is weaker than America.

It's misleading to associate the National team success with the American domestic pool. It's well known that Klinsmann had very little faith about the game in the United States and was heavily trying to find players who were in other leagues eligible to American passports. Also, he lost his shit when Americans would leave Europe to play in MLS.

Tim Howard said it like it was:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/soccer/national/2017/01/17/tim-howard-speaks-out-against-jurgen-klinsmann/96689094/

“I think it slips away because you bring in …,” Howard began, before pausing for thought. “Jurgen Klinsmann had a project to unearth talent around the world that had American roots. But having American roots doesn’t mean you are passionate about playing for that country.”

When Klinsmann took over in 2011, his primary focus was to identify any player eligible to represent the national team. A significant influx of players born and raised in the coach’s native Germany were brought in, most qualifying to play for the U.S. as a result of their American servicemen fathers.

Players such as Jermaine Jones and Fabian Johnson have, for the most part, shown they were worthy of a place. Others did not pan out so well.

The idea was that it would give Klinsmann a stronger and deeper pool to choose from. The reality, according to Howard, was that the identity of the national team program was either lost, or at least obscured.

 

Americans performed well above expectations but it certainly wasn't due to their domestic homegrown pool and now they are in real danger of not making it to Russia. Remove all those guys Klinsmann got and you'd have a very different national team.

16 minutes ago, matty said:

You're more likely to secure solid players from America than say Panama where the talent will want is national team talent playing on thr high playing clubs.

Those solid players would most likely stay put, especially with MLS crazy expansion coming soon. As for your Panama example, money talks. They don't earn that much in those leagues and add the lower quality of life for some of them and being paid in Canadian dollars with an opportunity to play in Canada and move here with their family is not to be underestimated. Unless you have a competing offer from the US or Europe, they'll take the money and move.

19 minutes ago, matty said:

A lot of the Caribbean does not speak English and many of those that do are  a fair bit weaker than Canada.

All the Commonwealth Islands speak English. That leaves out Haiti, Cuba, Dominican Republic and other nation's territories. Sure some of them ranks lower than Canada, doesn't mean they don't have young players worth looking at

[Diamondium]

21 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I did point out that the scouting factor initially is unknown for the CPL. Still, the pool of available players out there is huge. The top leagues gets the best, but there's still talent left regardless. I go back to the Haitians playing abroad, some play in France, some in India, and the talented Guerrier in Tunisia. No we aren't alone in the scouting world but I'd like to think that due to proximity, we'd have the edge at scouting our own backyard down the road than India, Middle East and Asia, even Europe who are more focus on South America, Africa and Europe itself.

Spending on scouting is inevitable. Cost effective how? You'd have to pay him in Canadian an amount that surpass what he could be making in the US in American dollars and he won't likely be a difference maker on your team, while most CONCACAF nations will be glad to be paid in Canadian dollars and most likely make a difference as an international

Again, there's plenty of talent to go around. As for scouting, it's up to CPL club to hire scouters that already have connection and their networks. No way they start from scratch.

(I had a longer and more thought out response, but I accidentally refreshed the page and lost it so bear with me )

I disagree that an American would command more salary just on the basis of being American. This is a global market, and the players know their global value. I don't think someone from central america will take less just for the glory of getting paid in almighty Canadian Dollars. They will command what they are worth, othwerwise they will play somewhere else that will pay them what their talents are worth, regardless of where they are from. As much as there is a massive wealth of talent available, there is also a massive wealth of options for that talent. If they're willing to get up and relocate to Canada, they're equally willing to get up and relocate anywhere else that will pay them more.

And It would be more expensive to acquire because it costs money to import, settle in, and adjust a player from across the globe. If you acquire a similar player from Minnesota, you pay for a flight and accomodations they can figure out life in Victoria easy enough.

For most of the points regarding scouting, we seem to have the same general point just being viewed from different viewpoints. I agree that they won't be starting from scratch, it's just that with lower budget you can't hire as many of those experienced scouters with extensive networks as other clubs.

Basically what I'm saying isn't that we should go out and sign Americans as every international. I just think that if you have two players of equal value and playing skill, an American would likely be easier to fit into and gel with a Canadian roster than someone else, which is why I don't believe we'll be seeing teams avoiding them.

[matty]

8 minutes ago, Ansem said:

It's misleading to associate the National team success with the American domestic pool. It's well known that Klinsmann had very little faith about the game in the United States and was heavily trying to find players who were in other leagues eligible to American passports. Also, he lost his shit when Americans would leave Europe to play in MLS.

Americans performed well above expectations but it certainly wasn't due to their domestic homegrown pool and now they are in real danger of not making it to Russia. Remove all those guys Klinsmann got and you'd have a very different national team.

You're solely talking national team here which has changed drastically already. Arena who does rate mls high is exploring the pool and already getting results. As for Russia, they are not in real danger yet.

Also when you look at the youth team, they've had a good amount of success in competition over the last decade. The amount of young (u21) Americans leaving for Mexico is higher than ever.

13 minutes ago, Ansem said:

 

Those solid players would most likely stay put, especially with MLS crazy expansion coming soon. As for your Panama example, money talks. They don't earn that much in those leagues and add the lower quality of life for some of them and being paid in Canadian dollars with an opportunity to play in Canada and move here with their family is not to be underestimated. Unless you have a competing offer from the US or Europe, they'll take the money and move.

I agree the expansion might be an issue but i don't see the pool fully dying.

You're super wrong about Panama (and costa rica). High teams pay very well, while they could move it's debatable if they would jump unless the pay is greatly higher.

Also move their spanish speaking family to Canada? Are you high? It's likely said family have jobs, don't speak english or French and won't be able to work here and kids will struggle in school. Especially if they live in Panama or costa rica.

Now Honduras, TnT and Jamaica are different but also solid nations but again they will be on other leagues' radar.

26 minutes ago, Ansem said:

 

All the Commonwealth Islands speak English. That leaves out Haiti, Cuba, Dominican Republic and other nation's territories. Sure some of them ranks lower than Canada, doesn't mean they don't have young players worth looking at

Not saying they don't but the pool of players here is so small it's unlikely you'll be able to depend on it.

[matty]

Btw question (on a phone so can't check easily). Were anyone of the original CSL owners on the level of wealth Bob Young is?

[ted]

3 hours ago, Kent said:

I don't think anyone here is advocating for deceit.

Ansem is.

On 2017-02-22 at 4:18 PM, Ansem said:

You're sending the wrong message that MLS are superior to CPL...

Denying that MLS is "superior" to the CanPL is deceitful.

Pretending that the CanPL is in any sense of the word equal to MLS is deceitful.

I have no problem being cute and clever talking about the, "top Canadian league" or even the, "only national 1st division in Canada". That is marketing.

But when it comes time for head to head, on-field competition, dishonesty will alienate fans, sponsors and the media all in the name of a few die-hard fans who wish reality was different.

And really, the benefits of such a deceit are so small. Nobody except those few die-hard fans will give a rat's ass that the MLS teams are seeded higher in the V-Cup. That is ALL we are talking about. Hardly a crippling blow to the league marketing strategy.

[red card]

Manning had some follow-up today to his comments to Larson.

 

He admitted that his stance may have seemed “strong” because of the fact that he remains “in the dark” about many aspects of a league that has still offered very little in the way of formal announcements.

You hear that they want to be top of the food chain with MLS and then you hear that they want to be developmental - if that’s the case, we have that product for them called TFC II. I’m fine with not calling it TFC II, but that’s why some of those comments came off as strong because we’re still in the dark as much as a lot of people.”

We’re supportive of starting a new soccer league,” Manning claimed. “We’re supportive of developing Canadian players - it’s good for TFC, it’s good for the Canadian national team.

 

That we feel very strongly about is we have TFC II. We are in the business of developing Canadian soccer players, and we feel in this marketplace we can offer what you need for that league as well in terms of developing Canadian players, if that is the MO for the league, is to develop a better base of Canadian players.

“If you own a pizza shop on the corner and another pizza shop opens up three stores down, you might not be that happy about it. They say ‘oh, their pizza’s not going to be any good’ but maybe it’s cheaper, there’s still going to be some people who go to it. We feel that we can offer in this market, Toronto, exactly what they want, which is a development team for the development of Canadian players, which we’d put even more of an emphasis on in a CPL.

“So it’s not that we’re anti[-CPL] - that’s not the case at all. We want to work together but we feel very strongly and that’s why I did make some strong comments that in this marketplace we are the best option. I believe if the CPL puts a team in Toronto that tries to compete with TFC, I don’t think that’s a good situation because now we’re competing for players, we’re competing for fans and all these different things. I just don’t think it’s a good option.”

http://www.wakingthered.com/2017/2/24/14726656/bill-manning-canadian-premier-league-cpl-toronto-fc-mls-news

[Diamondium]

2 minutes ago, ted said:

Ansem is.

Denying that MLS is "superior" to the CanPL is deceitful.

Pretending that the CanPL is in any sense of the word equal to MLS is deceitful.

I have no problem being cute and clever talking about the, "top Canadian league" or even the, "only national 1st division in Canada". That is marketing.

But when it comes time for head to head, on-field competition, dishonesty will alienate fans, sponsors and the media all in the name of a few die-hard fans who wish reality was different.

And really, the benefits of such a deceit are so small. Nobody except those few die-hard fans will give a rat's ass that the MLS teams are seeded higher in the V-Cup. That is ALL we are talking about. Hardly a crippling blow to the league marketing strategy.

I see where you're coming from here, however I'm not too sure it would be too much of an issue to have equal seeding as well, if the numbers allow for it. Back to, as you say, cute and clever marketing, you can get away with it without it being deceitful.

Just be like "Hey, every team in the tournament is starting on the same foot, let the results on the pitch dictate which league has the better teams", and yeah, MLS teams would 9/10 times win that and prove better. 

I will agree though that if the numbers don't work cleanly and you need to give teams a bye or play-in games, it wouldn't be the end of the world to give a bit of priority to MLS teams there. There is no arguing that they will likely be higher quality, at least for the time being.

[dyslexic nam]

50 minutes ago, ted said:

Nobody except those few die-hard fans will give a rat's ass that the MLS teams are seeded higher in the V-Cup. That is ALL we are talking about. Hardly a crippling blow to the league marketing strategy.

I disagree.  Anyone invested in their local CPL team might very much be annoyed if they were denied an opportunity to play a (relatively) high profile MLS team because of some arbitrary policy choice when it came to seeding the tourney. 

As I stated above, I have yet to see why such a seeding is necessary.  I do not believe it entails some strong implication that all teams are equal - it is just a matter of our national association respecting our national league via our national competition.  To be honest, I find it crazy that a voyageur would have an issue with that. 

With the small number of teams involved, there is no realistic "fixture congestion" argument that can be made to justify it.  If we posit a 12 team tourney for mathematical convenience (setting aside that it would require a 9 team CPL), it could be a 2 game round robin within 4 groups of 3, and a semifinal/final set up.  And if someone feels an overwhelming need to place MLS teams on a pedestal (to avoid being "deceitful"), then put each of them in a different group to ensure they don't eliminate each other prematurely - but at least give each CPL team a fair crack at them in open play.

[dyslexic nam]

58 minutes ago, red card said:

Manning had some follow-up today to his comments to Larson...

So they're not anti-CPL.  They just see it as the cheap, shitty pizza in their analogy.

Mmmmokay.

[johnyb]

1 hour ago, red card said:

- if that’s the case, we have that product for them called TFC II. I’m fine with not calling it TFC II,

Progress. A month ago it was TFC III.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, ted said:

Ansem is.

You must have misunderstood me so I'll try one last time

1 hour ago, ted said:

Denying that MLS is "superior" to the CanPL is deceitful.

Find me 1 single post where I say that CPL is superior to MLS. Define superior...

If you mean level of play, no one would deny that but if you're the CSA and CPL you'd have to be stupid and a fool to advertise that message to the fans you're trying to win over.

1 hour ago, ted said:

Pretending that the CanPL is in any sense of the word equal to MLS is deceitful.

No one's pretending, however they are both sanctioned as Division 1 in their respective countries and that's the message I see the CSA going forward with.

Going with your logic, MLS teams have no business being consider on par with Liga MX teams. It's deceitful to advertise that which MLS doesn't shy away from doing so and we can all agree they aren't in the same league yet...they are both Division 1, right? Yet they are granted the same perks as Liga MX in the CCL. Do you see me or Mexicans complain about it? No. So let it go

Then if I'm deceitful, so is the MLS trying to pass themselves as a world class top league.

1 hour ago, ted said:

I have no problem being cute and clever talking about the, "top Canadian league" or even the, "only national 1st division in Canada". That is marketing.

Cute and Clever? Top Canadian League would be a fact, nothing cute and clever about it.

1 hour ago, ted said:

But when it comes time for head to head, on-field competition, dishonesty will alienate fans, sponsors and the media all in the name of a few die-hard fans who wish reality was different.

I respect that it might alienate you perhaps, but there's nothing dishonest by having both CPL and MLS teams compete against one another in the same round. Actually, it makes for a great show for the fans, more exposure for the sponsors and more stories for the media. You're the one trying to make a statement here, not me, I'm just looking for an entertaining tournament and having CPL clash vs MLS makes for a damn entertaining tournament, not giving semi-finals tickets to MLS right from the get go... just like the FA Cup who's actually entertaining. I don't see the point of killing that fun just so some of you try to make a statement that MLS is superior to whatever Canada would ever come up with

1 hour ago, ted said:

And really, the benefits of such a deceit are so small. Nobody except those few die-hard fans will give a rat's ass that the MLS teams are seeded higher in the V-Cup. That is ALL we are talking about. Hardly a crippling blow to the league marketing strategy.

The more you associate me with the word "deceit", the more you're truly pissing me off.

Most fans just want to have an entertaining tournament. You're the one obsessed with hierarchy and trying to "teach" the fans how things work around here and to use your own words:  "Nobody except those few die-hard fans will give a rat's ass that the MLS teams enters the V-Cup at the same time as CPL Teams"

Having MLS teams entering earlier means more opportunity for fans across Canada to see those teams perform live and for those MLS teams to show what they have to the rest of Canada, which is what they always wanted. I seriously doubt MLS teams would be against that.

Regarding marketing: If you think advertising that you're inferior to another "product" in your own market isn't a blow to your marketing strategy, I wouldn't want you as my business partner and I hope you stick to your day job

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Diamondium said:

I disagree that an American would command more salary just on the basis of being American. This is a global market, and the players know their global value. I don't think someone from central america will take less just for the glory of getting paid in almighty Canadian Dollars. They will command what they are worth, othwerwise they will play somewhere else that will pay them what their talents are worth, regardless of where they are from. As much as there is a massive wealth of talent available, there is also a massive wealth of options for that talent. If they're willing to get up and relocate to Canada, they're equally willing to get up and relocate anywhere else that will pay them more.

For an American player, you better beat whatever NASL or an MLS bench salary would pay him in American dollars if finding "quality players" is what you're looking for. Sure USL, unattached Americans would be cheap, but giving them an International spot is a bit puzzling.

 

1 hour ago, Diamondium said:

Basically what I'm saying isn't that we should go out and sign Americans as every international. I just think that if you have two players of equal value and playing skill, an American would likely be easier to fit into and gel with a Canadian roster than someone else, which is why I don't believe we'll be seeing teams avoiding them.

That's a given. Equal and similar skill makes sense. But assuming that the best Americans are playing in leagues above MLS, in MLS and NASL, what do you have left? If there's a good one that slipped through the cracks, take him, just my personal opinion that it's more likely that you'll find a more talented International elsewhere

1 hour ago, Diamondium said:

For most of the points regarding scouting, we seem to have the same general point just being viewed from different viewpoints. I agree that they won't be starting from scratch, it's just that with lower budget you can't hire as many of those experienced scouters with extensive networks as other clubs.

It's hard to speculate on this one as we just don't know how much teams will spend in that area as there's no limits.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, matty said:

You're solely talking national team here which has changed drastically already. Arena who does rate mls high is exploring the pool and already getting results. As for Russia, they are not in real danger yet.

Also when you look at the youth team, they've had a good amount of success in competition over the last decade. The amount of young (u21) Americans leaving for Mexico is higher than ever.

I agree the expansion might be an issue but i don't see the pool fully dying.

You're super wrong about Panama (and costa rica). High teams pay very well, while they could move it's debatable if they would jump unless the pay is greatly higher.

Also move their spanish speaking family to Canada? Are you high? It's likely said family have jobs, don't speak english or French and won't be able to work here and kids will struggle in school. Especially if they live in Panama or costa rica.

Now Honduras, TnT and Jamaica are different but also solid nations but again they will be on other leagues' radar.

Not saying they don't but the pool of players here is so small it's unlikely you'll be able to depend on it.

I read your position and argument and respect your views. We can agree to disagree on our evaluation of the American program

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, red card said:

Manning had some follow-up today to his comments to Larson.

 

He admitted that his stance may have seemed “strong” because of the fact that he remains “in the dark” about many aspects of a league that has still offered very little in the way of formal announcements.

You hear that they want to be top of the food chain with MLS and then you hear that they want to be developmental - if that’s the case, we have that product for them called TFC II. I’m fine with not calling it TFC II, but that’s why some of those comments came off as strong because we’re still in the dark as much as a lot of people.”

We’re supportive of starting a new soccer league,” Manning claimed. “We’re supportive of developing Canadian players - it’s good for TFC, it’s good for the Canadian national team.

 

That we feel very strongly about is we have TFC II. We are in the business of developing Canadian soccer players, and we feel in this marketplace we can offer what you need for that league as well in terms of developing Canadian players, if that is the MO for the league, is to develop a better base of Canadian players.

“If you own a pizza shop on the corner and another pizza shop opens up three stores down, you might not be that happy about it. They say ‘oh, their pizza’s not going to be any good’ but maybe it’s cheaper, there’s still going to be some people who go to it. We feel that we can offer in this market, Toronto, exactly what they want, which is a development team for the development of Canadian players, which we’d put even more of an emphasis on in a CPL.

“So it’s not that we’re anti[-CPL] - that’s not the case at all. We want to work together but we feel very strongly and that’s why I did make some strong comments that in this marketplace we are the best option. I believe if the CPL puts a team in Toronto that tries to compete with TFC, I don’t think that’s a good situation because now we’re competing for players, we’re competing for fans and all these different things. I just don’t think it’s a good option.”

http://www.wakingthered.com/2017/2/24/14726656/bill-manning-canadian-premier-league-cpl-toronto-fc-mls-news

Competition is always good

Someone must have told him his last interview was a bad PR move. A CPL Toronto is unlikely to have a major negative impact on their business. Best PR move should be to "keep calm and carry on"...and not give your potential competitor more publicity! 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

1 hour ago, matty said:

Btw question (on a phone so can't check easily). Were anyone of the original CSL owners on the level of wealth Bob Young is?

Possibly Karsten Von Wersebe of the Blizzard and Bill Comrie (?) of the Edmonton Brickmen would have been, but for the most part they were not. The Steelers owner, Mario Di Bartolomeo, was a restaurant owner as far as I remember. Some of the teams such as the 86ers in Vancouver and the Lasers in London were started by what could basically almost be regarded as fan groups in present day terms as there was no main rich investor.