Canadian Premier League

[ted]

... I would like them to embrace it more and play some games in Saskatoon too. 

Bad idea.

Besides still not understanding and respecting the very nature of soccer as a local sport this also leads to problems of building attendance. Why would I buy a season ticket that includes "home" games in another city?  How does using multiple stadiums build "momentum" (for lack of  a better word) for repeat single game ticket buyers?

 

 

HOW NOT TO SCHEDULE A TEAM

[ON THE TERRACES OF MOSAIC STADIUM]

First-time Fan: Hey I enjoyed that game, I'd like a ticket to the next game.

Season Ticket Holder: Sorry the next home game is in Saskatoon.

FtF: Oh, that sucks.

STH: But if you wait a month they will be here again.

FtF: OK, I guess I'll think about it.

[by the time the game comes around he has lost interest and does not buy a ticket.]

FIN

 

This is not rocket science. Professional Football at this level needs to target primarily  young men aged 18-35 living within 1 hour of the stadium. This is how it works everywhere. MLS teams in Canada can afford to spread the message wider because they are in a higher level league which adds value and targeting marketing to a wider audience is possible as additions to the above for little to no extra cost.

[toontownman]

So your'e saying there's a chance..... it's hard to tell your'e not being very clear with your opinion 

You are of course correct in pointing out the Glaringly obvious. It is certainly different should the Roughriders do something like that with a fanbase that travels from across the province and beyond already in tow. It is a built franchise, that said, rejecting any possibilty of another CFL team in Saskatoon (which I wouldn't agree with tbh anyway) while also arguably neglecting half of its fanbase is certainly having their cake and eating it. It is completely understandable though given the significant investment in the city and stadium, not to mention rich history. With a Soccer team or any sport for that matter, alternating cities, it simply can't be done starting a new franchise if there is no built in crowd. 

The other alternative being a provincial team is the the Roughrider owned soccer team could just play in Saskatoon only like Saskatchewan CFL team elect plays in Regina - but when half the point from the Roughriders position is to have mosaic used and bringing in money more often and the franchise practically run and owned in Regina, its a non starter too. Mainly with good reason. 

Ignore the musings of dejected Saskatoonian madman wanting a decent sports franchise to go to. The rose tinted specs need cleaning. 

 

[matty]

Facts

Who's Reported on it: Canadian Soccer News (Duane Rollins), the SB Nation blogs, Red Nation

Who's addressed it directly: TSN (Jason deVos), Don Garber (MLS commissioner), John Pugh (Ottawa Fury president)

Who's addressed it indirectly: Benito Floro (Canada coach), Fox Sports, Bob Young (owner Hamilton Tiger-Cats), N. Murray Edwards (owner Calgary Flames and Calgary Stampeders), Bill Peterson (NASL commissioner)

CanMNT Players in favour so far publicly: Adam Straith, Iain Hume, Nikolas Ledgerwood

CanMNT Players who've hinted at favouring it: Issey Nakajima-Farran, Julian de Guzman, Terry Dunfield

People of note against it: Marc Dos Santos (Ottawa Fury coach)

Noted missed chances to announce: Women's World Cup, Gold Cup, Pan Am Games, 2015 Canadian Championship

Noted chances left to announce with time to build hype thanks to massive TV viewership: Grey Cup because of the CFL and TSN involvement (Nov 29, 2015 - LAST REAL CHANCE IT SEEMS), NBA All-Star Game because of TSN involvement (Feb 14, 2016)

Rumours

Non-CSA parties involved: Canadian Football League, TSN, Telelatino, beIN Sports, Calgary Flames, Montreal Canadiens, Ottawa Fury, Canadian Interuniversity Sports

Not involved: NASL, FC Edmonton, Canadian Soccer League

Cities: Vancouver, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal-Quebec City, Moncton, Edmonton

Teams that are Joining: Ottawa Fury

Salary Cap: $1-1.5m (higher than NASL, on par with CFL)

Tier Placement: 1 (shared with MLS)

Canadian Content: 75-80%

CCL Spots: 1

[Fussball_eh]

Great summary so far Matty!

[MtlMario]

Facts

Who's Reported on it: Canadian Soccer News (Duane Rollins), the SB Nation blogs, Red Nation

Who's addressed it directly: TSN (Jason deVos), Don Garber (MLS commissioner), John Pugh (Ottawa Fury president)

Who's addressed it indirectly: Benito Floro (Canada coach), Fox Sports, Bob Young (owner Hamilton Tiger-Cats), N. Murray Edwards (owner Calgary Flames and Calgary Stampeders), Bill Peterson (NASL commissioner)

CanMNT Players in favour so far publicly: Adam Straith, Iain Hume, Nikolas Ledgerwood

CanMNT Players who've hinted at favouring it: Issey Nakajima-Farran, Julian de Guzman, Terry Dunfield

People of note against it: Marc Dos Santos (Ottawa Fury coach)

Noted missed chances to announce: Women's World Cup, Gold Cup, Pan Am Games, 2015 Canadian Championship

Noted chances left to announce with time to build hype thanks to massive TV viewership: Grey Cup because of the CFL and TSN involvement (Nov 29, 2015 - LAST REAL CHANCE IT SEEMS), NBA All-Star Game because of TSN involvement (Feb 14, 2016)

Rumours

Non-CSA parties involved: Canadian Football League, TSN, Telelatino, beIN Sports, Calgary Flames, Montreal Canadiens, Ottawa Fury, Canadian Interuniversity Sports

Not involved: NASL, FC Edmonton, Canadian Soccer League

Cities: Vancouver, Calgary, Regina, Winnipeg, Hamilton, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal-Quebec City, Moncton, Edmonton

Teams that are Joining: Ottawa Fury

Salary Cap: $1-1.5m (higher than NASL, on par with CFL)

Tier Placement: 1 (shared with MLS)

Canadian Content: 75-80%

CCL Spots: 1

I read Dos Santos article and believe he said it wasn't a good idea only if the league was run like a semi-pro league. That's the impression I got. Everything else pretty much agree.

[dmont]

Facts

 

Teams that are Joining: Ottawa Fury

 

<Bill Lumbergh voice> Mmmmyeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and... disagree with you on that.

Duane Rollins interviewed John Pugh a little while ago, and Pugh didn't sound the least bit enthusiastic. Made it very clear that they liked playing in NASL. His words (and I'm paraphrasing here): "Our fans like it when Minnesota comes to town... they like it when New York comes to town..."

Based on this, my read is that the Ottawa Fury are not interested, at least at the moment.

[matty]

<Bill Lumbergh voice> Mmmmyeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and... disagree with you on that.

Duane Rollins interviewed John Pugh a little while ago, and Pugh didn't sound the least bit enthusiastic. Made it very clear that they liked playing in NASL. His words (and I'm paraphrasing here): "Our fans like it when Minnesota comes to town... they like it when New York comes to town..."

Based on this, my read is that the Ottawa Fury are not interested, at least at the moment.

It's listed under the rumours lists. They're the team that has most often come up as joining hence why they are there.

[matty]

I read Dos Santos article and believe he said it wasn't a good idea only if the league was run like a semi-pro league. That's the impression I got. Everything else pretty much agree.

I agree he came out against the idea of a semi-pro league but he also questioned if Canada has what it takes to create a league. He also seemed to prefer the idea of a 10-12 team minimum which this league will be below. He also championed the NASL over a Canadian league.

[ted]

Rumours

Not involved: NASL, FC Edmonton, Criminal Soccer League

Fixed it for you.

 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

I'm personally pretty pessimistic about how much of Rider Nation can be won over to soccer fandom. I'd love to be wrong, but there is very little affinity for the sport amongst the hard core Rider fan base and I'm not sure many of them could be persuaded even with very strong backing/marketing from the Riders org. They have the money and media attention, but Rider fans general attitude toward soccer (with the people that I know anyway) ranges from disinterest to disdain with a very small number of soccer fans thrown in. Locally targeting the clubs, coaches, parents, and men's and women's teams might be a better plan. 

 

Otoh, nationally the Grey Cup focused a lot of eyes in one place, so there might be some significant advantages in announcing it there regardless. 

 

I've privately heard that the CSA and potential owners are still in the 'courting' phase and there will be nothing official until they're 'engaged' but have no other details I'm afraid. So that doesn't mean much beyond the fact that there are discussions. 

Yeah, you're probably right about Rider Nation, but I think the Grey Cup announcement would have way more to do with the fact that all of Canada watches than the fact that there are football fans watching or that they're going after CFL fans.  I would almost say they're announcing it then DESPITE the fact that its a football event.  It's just the best event outside of an all Canadian Stanley Cup Final or Canadian Olympic Gold Medal game.  Like even my non-sports fan parents will watch the Grey Cup, and its probably the only football game of any sort they'll watch all year, every year.  

[Jason]

<Bill Lumbergh voice> Mmmmyeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and... disagree with you on that.

Duane Rollins interviewed John Pugh a little while ago, and Pugh didn't sound the least bit enthusiastic. Made it very clear that they liked playing in NASL. His words (and I'm paraphrasing here): "Our fans like it when Minnesota comes to town... they like it when New York comes to town..."

Based on this, my read is that the Ottawa Fury are not interested, at least at the moment.

Considering the lack of support the NASL has for it, Pugh would be foolish to say anything other than what he said.  Would anyone publicly muse about moving to rival organization, especially when the rival doesn't even exist yet.?

I think it's entirely possible that Ottawa and later Edmonton will join the C-League if it ever happens and has success.  There is just so much more opportunity financially - nationwide league corporate sponsorships, national TV deal, lower travel costs, and more.  Also, I think the public will want it if the C-League is successful.  How do you explain to fans and even sign up local sponsors if they don't really understand your league and why it's not the one on TSN they saw last weekend.  

Jason

[rob.notenboom]

Considering the lack of support the NASL has for it, Pugh would be foolish to say anything other than what he said.  Would anyone publicly muse about moving to rival organization, especially when the rival doesn't even exist yet.?

I think it's entirely possible that Ottawa and later Edmonton will join the C-League if it ever happens and has success.  There is just so much more opportunity financially - nationwide league corporate sponsorships, national TV deal, lower travel costs, and more.  Also, I think the public will want it if the C-League is successful.  How do you explain to fans and even sign up local sponsors if they don't really understand your league and why it's not the one on TSN they saw last weekend.  

Jason

It's interesting ... I think that if a Canadian league caught on, there would be a great amount of financial opportunity. But I had a very brief conversation with Richard Whittall where he said that they investigated a D2 for the Easton Report and they found the risks to be too high for it to be viable. 

[Jason]

It's interesting ... I think that if a Canadian league caught on, there would be a great amount of financial opportunity. But I had a very brief conversation with Richard Whittall where he said that they investigated a D2 for the Easton Report and they found the risks to be too high for it to be viable. 

Yep, there's a lot of risk, but I would argue that with CFL involvement it's actually lower risk.  These organizations have infrastructures in place (front office/ticket/marketing staffs and management, existing base of corporate sponsors and ticket holders, relationships with media to get a TV deal, strong existing finances of clubs) that brand new startup leagues rarely have.  And the CFL teams have an interest in it succeeding.  Even if cynical people believe they don't care about soccer and just want something to fill their new stadiums (which I don't agree with), they will still want it to be successful.  

It's an idea with more chance of success than I've seen in a while.  This should work better than the CSA finding 8 brand new owners who like soccer but have nothing set up and no experience running a sports team.  The 4-5 CFL teams provide the base, and then add in a few new owners and it can be manageable. I hope it happens, but the longer this drags on, the less likely I think it is.  

Jason

[DigzTFC]

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/index.php?/page/articles.html/_/24th-minute/csa-cfl-and-nasl-to-launch-canadian-league-r4701

It's also important to note that the CFL may want to expand. Expansion requires stadiums of 25K plus to be built in new markets.  Many of these new markets would be reluctant to pay $160-$200 million subsidized by provincial and municipal levels of government.  It may be smart to marry the two leagues so either the CFL can expand by adding a second tenant (soccer) or by building a smaller soccer specific stadium that can be expanded to CFL standards once the market is tested.

[rob.notenboom]

Yep, there's a lot of risk, but I would argue that with CFL involvement it's actually lower risk.  These organizations have infrastructures in place (front office/ticket/marketing staffs and management, existing base of corporate sponsors and ticket holders, relationships with media to get a TV deal, strong existing finances of clubs) that brand new startup leagues rarely have.  And the CFL teams have an interest in it succeeding.  Even if cynical people believe they don't care about soccer and just want something to fill their new stadiums (which I don't agree with), they will still want it to be successful.  

It's an idea with more chance of success than I've seen in a while.  This should work better than the CSA finding 8 brand new owners who like soccer but have nothing set up and no experience running a sports team.  The 4-5 CFL teams provide the base, and then add in a few new owners and it can be manageable. I hope it happens, but the longer this drags on, the less likely I think it is.  

Jason

Agreed. Definitely some sports management knowledge to capitalize on there.

 

I really vacillate between being hopeful and being doubtful. The article DigzTFC posted above doesn't help considering that was almost a year and a half ago.

[Jason]

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/index.php?/page/articles.html/_/24th-minute/csa-cfl-and-nasl-to-launch-canadian-league-r4701

It's also important to note that the CFL may want to expand. Expansion requires stadiums of 25K plus to be built in new markets.  Many of these new markets would be reluctant to pay $160-$200 million subsidized by provincial and municipal levels of government.  It may be smart to marry the two leagues so either the CFL can expand by adding a second tenant (soccer) or by building a smaller soccer specific stadium that can be expanded to CFL standards once the market is tested.

I agree - I remember very clearly when the Seattle Seahawks were trying to get their stadium funded, soccer was very prominently featured to show that the new stadium would bring soccer events and likely a pro club in the future.  That turned out well for everyone.

Jason

[shermanator]

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/index.php?/page/articles.html/_/24th-minute/csa-cfl-and-nasl-to-launch-canadian-league-r4701

It's also important to note that the CFL may want to expand. Expansion requires stadiums of 25K plus to be built in new markets.  Many of these new markets would be reluctant to pay $160-$200 million subsidized by provincial and municipal levels of government.  It may be smart to marry the two leagues so either the CFL can expand by adding a second tenant (soccer) or by building a smaller soccer specific stadium that can be expanded to CFL standards once the market is tested.

I would argue its not so much a "may want to expand" as it is a "definitely wants to expand". The CFL has long identified their goal as having a 10th team in Atlantic Canada, becoming a true coast to coast league. The problem is a lack of any sort of stadium in Halifax suitable for a CFL club.

[Jason]

I would argue its not so much a "may want to expand" as it is a "definitely wants to expand". The CFL has long identified their goal as having a 10th team in Atlantic Canada, becoming a true coast to coast league. The problem is a lack of any sort of stadium in Halifax suitable for a CFL club.

That's another reason why I could see the CFL being in favour of getting involved with soccer.  If a WC bid ever materializes, the CFL could be a big beneficiary of the legacy with a new stadiums in Halifax, Calgary, and Quebec City perhaps.

Jason

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

That's another reason why I could see the CFL being in favour of getting involved with soccer.  If a WC bid ever materializes, the CFL could be a big beneficiary of the legacy with a new stadiums in Halifax, Calgary, and Quebec City perhaps.

Jason

Man.  I just love the idea of being in a mutually beneficial relationship with football.  Above all else I think that gives me hope.  Yeah, it kinda sucks having to share stadiums, but if we can somehow help them while they help us, I think this thing may actually have a chance.  

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

A lot of this was obviously tied into a World Cup bid and the infrastructure money that could be obtained from federal and provincial governments. The problem is that the CSA appears to have been very much aligning itself with Traffic Sports (and by extension the NASL) to be successful in the old Blatter run environment within FIFA. With Blatter gone the field of applicants for 2026 is wide open and a successful Canadian bid is now a long shot at best.

[DigzTFC]

I'm from Halifax so I am well aware of CFL's desire to expand into the market.  However, the city is steadfast in the belief that they need a major event to unlock the funds to do so.  Halifax pulled out of the Commonwealth Games bid as the representative from Canada because they were running on 4 year old assumptions in their proforma and when they refreshed those assumptions they found the tax implications would have been dire.

The WC bid I think is a separate entity from the initialization of the league.  CFL stadiums have seen a resurgence in infrastructure funding over the last few years.  Ottawa, Toronto, Saskatchewan, Winnipeg, Vancouver, Hamilton and recent plans touted in Calgary and renos in Edmonton.  In 16 years, most of those stadiums will require upgrades.  Building new stadiums in other cities on scale of WC seating requirement, with maybe the exception of Quebec City, would be inappropriate.  If Canada was to win a WC bid the infrastructure funds would go to CFL stadiums anyway for renovations.

The partnership makes complete sense.  It makes more revenue for the city and teams.  It unlocks more stadium funding.  It utilizes core competencies such as marketing, team administration etc.  It's a good fit.

 

 

[shermanator]

Man.  I just love the idea of being in a mutually beneficial relationship with football.  Above all else I think that gives me hope.  Yeah, it kinda sucks having to share stadiums, but if we can somehow help them while they help us, I think this thing may actually have a chance.  

The CSA and CFL have a good reason to work with each other and continue to grow their sports collectively should they form a partnership. While attendance has been slowly dropping in CFL stadiums, corporately they appear to be on very solid ground, and any time you have a league TV deal that is doubling every 5 years, that's never a bad thing.

It would be awesome to see 10 new soccer specific stadiums pop up in Canada but unfortunately we don't have a committed billionaire on our side for that. So, we have to make due with using CFL stadiums. One day, when I win the LottoMax, we can see one pop up in Calgary.

[Jason]

By the way, I can't remember if I made this post here or not, but I'm making the call - in 2016 the Roughriders are going to do a "test event" at their new stadium before the football team moves in 2017.  The test event will be a soccer match.  I don't know who it'll be for sure, but I would bet it's a MNT or WNT friendly.  I think we may see the Roughriders really get into the soccer business.

Jason

 

[rob.notenboom]

By the way, I can't remember if I made this post here or not, but I'm making the call - in 2016 the Roughriders are going to do a "test event" at their new stadium before the football team moves in 2017.  The test event will be a soccer match.  I don't know who it'll be for sure, but I would bet it's a MNT or WNT friendly.  I think we may see the Roughriders really get into the soccer business.

Jason

 

That's hilarious ... was just talking about the test event with some friends. We thought it would be a concert with a soccer game having an outside chance.

 

If it's a Men's or Women's friendly, I will lose my noodle. I'm not sure the few Vs in town will be able to billet the entire influx of travelling support.

[the Humberlands]

 

Rumours

Non-CSA parties involved: Canadian Football League, TSN, Telelatino, beIN Sports, Calgary Flames, Montreal Canadiens, Ottawa Fury, Canadian Interuniversity Sports

 

Excellent summary!

Under the Rumours section, I find the CIS (Canadian Interuniversity Sports) involvement to be particularly appealing. Haven't found any articles or heard any comments on this inclusion aside from Matty's summary. Not even sure how the CIS would work into the fold, but there are leagues around the world with university teams participating. CIS inclusion could expand the size of the team pool, even if only a select few (but which teams, and how to determine) schools enter the equation. Could their inclusion incorporate a second tier? I know I'm getting ahead of myself and being somewhat unrealistic when pro/reg comments are thrown into the mix.

Curious though: let's say there was a pro/reg option with CIS teams battling each other to be promoted from their current CIS league into a C-League second tier. CIS teams could then be promoted to the first tier and play among the city based club teams, whereas the city based club teams could only be relegated to tier 2 and not further down into the CIS league.

Complicated. It's a FAR, FAR stretch to say the least, considering this league itself has yet to be announced.