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ted

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I do think, reading between the lines, that the Fath group is the big holdup for the C-League.    The entire venture becomes difficult without the NASL teams.  With them you still have some of the major Canadian markets, even though the C-League teams in the MLS markets would have a tough time.

 

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In the latest Two Solitudes, Duane Rollins reported that the new league will be announced during the Grey Cup timeframe.

That would probably be the best time to make an announcement. While the Pan Am games and Gold Cup annoucement timeframe would have fit for the owners, they would rather attract the average Canadian sports viewers. They don't have to worry about us. We'll find out about it regardless of whether they announce it today or tomorrow. However, making it top of mind to Riders Nation is the goal.

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In the latest Two Solitudes, Duane Rollins reported that the new league will be announced during the Grey Cup timeframe.

I'm personally pretty pessimistic about how much of Rider Nation can be won over to soccer fandom. I'd love to be wrong, but there is very little affinity for the sport amongst the hard core Rider fan base and I'm not sure many of them could be persuaded even with very strong backing/marketing from the Riders org. They have the money and media attention, but Rider fans general attitude toward soccer (with the people that I know anyway) ranges from disinterest to disdain with a very small number of soccer fans thrown in. Locally targeting the clubs, coaches, parents, and men's and women's teams might be a better plan. 

 

Otoh, nationally the Grey Cup focused a lot of eyes in one place, so there might be some significant advantages in announcing it there regardless. 

 

I've privately heard that the CSA and potential owners are still in the 'courting' phase and there will be nothing official until they're 'engaged' but have no other details I'm afraid. So that doesn't mean much beyond the fact that there are discussions. 

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@rob.n I agree with you that the Poutinership is most likely in the state you describe it. The problem is that while it's in limbo, so is pro soccer in the country with the USL ban and NASL bids stalled.

Unless what the CSA is doing ultimately is going to take the same amount of time as new USL or NASL teams would take to establish.

 

However, I get your point. And as much as I would consider myself firmly on the side of a Canadian league being the best developmental option, I've also never been the one to say that other options wouldn't bear fruit. Regardless of the path, more pro-soccer now please.

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I'm personally pretty pessimistic about how much of Rider Nation can be won over to soccer fandom. I'd love to be wrong, but there is very little affinity for the sport amongst the hard core Rider fan base and I'm not sure many of them could be persuaded even with very strong backing/marketing from the Riders org. They have the money and media attention, but Rider fans general attitude toward soccer (with the people that I know anyway) ranges from disinterest to disdain with a very small number of soccer fans thrown in. Locally targeting the clubs, coaches, parents, and men's and women's teams might be a better plan. 

 

Otoh, nationally the Grey Cup focused a lot of eyes in one place, so there might be some significant advantages in announcing it there regardless. 

 

I've privately heard that the CSA and potential owners are still in the 'courting' phase and there will be nothing official until they're 'engaged' but have no other details I'm afraid. So that doesn't mean much beyond the fact that there are discussions. 

Its the brand. The die hard "football" fan that hates soccer isn't likely to be won over very easily but there are those that are diehard to the brand that would support the venture, then a further amount of fans that are all round sports fans who would give it a go. Then there is the 40% of roughrider followers that come along for the ride and don't actually know how the game works. The other side of the coin is the soccer fans that are not necessarily CFL followers, of which there are many, being pulled into the roughrider brand and possibly then further exposed or attached to the "football" team. 

Not using the roughrider brand if it is offered would be mad. I'd obviously like the team to be based in saskatoon or alternate if it's to be a province team. (Know that would never happen as part of the idea of a roughrider team would be filling mosaic more often)

I think the local targeting you mention would be the first thing they would look at to build a fan base. I'm convinced there would be enough fans that would support it as a provincial brand. Either way if there is to be a team in Regina or saskatoon using the roughrider brand is a no Brainer imo .

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Its the brand. The die hard "football" fan that hates soccer isn't likely to be won over very easily but there are those that are diehard to the brand that would support the venture, then a further amount of fans that are all round sports fans who would give it a go. Then there is the 40% of roughrider followers that come along for the ride and don't actually know how the game works. The other side of the coin is the soccer fans that are not necessarily CFL followers, of which there are many, being pulled into the roughrider brand and possibly then further exposed or attached to the "football" team. 

Not using the roughrider brand if it is offered would be mad. I'd obviously like the team to be based in saskatoon or alternate if it's to be a province team. (Know that would never happen as part of the idea of a roughrider team would be filling mosaic more often)

I think the local targeting you mention would be the first thing they would look at to build a fan base. I'm convinced there would be enough fans that would support it as a provincial brand. Either way if there is to be a team in Regina or saskatoon using the roughrider brand is a no Brainer imo .

Yes I completely agree. There's a possibility that, with a real push from the Riders org, that it could carry enough weight to convince enough people. There will also guaranteed be a lot of naysayers whose only thought when you say the word 'soccer' is of people rolling around on the field clutching their shin. When I say I'm pessimistic about Rider Nation being convinced, I mean in really large numbers. I agree with you that the brand carries a lot of power but would add that the Riders are a class organization in a lot of other ways that would be valuable regardless of the sport ... marketing, community connections, game day planning ... they are also a wealthy organization and could weather the potential financial difficulties without bowing out early. Hell they have over 60 local sponsors and sold 11 million dollars worth of merchandise last year.

 

But I think on top of that you need to start building grassroots relationships ASAP (not saying you were disagreeing, just reiterating my point). Not only would they need to do this to get fans who understand and are keen to watch the game played at a reasonable level, but you may also need to count on some of these people for other things; for advice on how the production of a soccer game day should look if it is to be authentic (not sure anyone currently in the Riders org would have a clue about that), and potentially as a source of talent for the club.

 

Of course this is really putting the cart before the horse. I've done a reasonable amount of sniffing around and heard virtually zero. That could mean it's just a closely guarded secret (Regina is a small community though) or it could mean there is no secret to guard.

 

I've told Jeff (Tuscan) that if there eventually is a team in Regina, he will likely be organizing the fan bus from Saskatoon. I'm assuming you'd want to join :)

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Suspect there is no secret to guard, because it's very difficult to keep something secret like that in a small city. The carrot that might have led to preliminary discussions would obviously have been using a World Cup bid as a way to leverage public infrastructure money, but Blatter's demise has probably ended the chance of a successful Canadian bid for 2026. In Australia, there have been a couple of attempts to launch pro soccer teams under the colours of two of the most famous Aussie Rules clubs, Carlton and Collingwood. Both ended in failure with little sign of interest being generated from fans of the other sport. In Scotland, Rangers tried to run a pro basketball team a couple of decades ago that also soon folded. Are there any examples of cross-marketing between sports actually working in recent times?

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But I think on top of that you need to start building grassroots relationships ASAP (not saying you were disagreeing, just reiterating my point). Not only would they need to do this to get fans who understand and are keen to watch the game played at a reasonable level, but you may also need to count on some of these people for other things; for advice on how the production of a soccer game day should look if it is to be authentic (not sure anyone currently in the Riders org would have a clue about that), and potentially as a source of talent for the club.

 

Yeah, you are of course spot on here. I think a fear we share is that this will be an afterthought, if it is even going ahead. Either way it is something that seems like we are still a considerable amount of time away from.

First of all you would hope whomever is organizing it has done some research on interest in the game in Saskatchewan, past seeing whitecaps have development centers in both Saskatoon and Regina, before approaching the Roughriders.  At the same time I don't think it is realistic to think they would be approaching the community before the Roughriders as they make or break the deal and provide pivotal financial and promotional support. 

If the Riders are on board then the next step has to be involving the soccer community across the province. Everything depends on the timeframe. 

This is where my ignorance kicks in, I tried looking but when is the proposed inaugural season starting? If we are talking announcing it around the grey cup to start next year (2016 season) you would hope key figures in the soccer community would have been approached for support. If it is being announced to start in 2017 or 18 maybe there is more time to build the brand and supporter base, not to mention rosters. 

Connecting with your fan base and community to build something could not be more pivotal though. 

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Yeah, you are of course spot on here. I think a fear we share is that this will be an afterthought, if it is even going ahead. Either way it is something that seems like we are still a considerable amount of time away from.

First of all you would hope whomever is organizing it has done some research on interest in the game in Saskatchewan, past seeing whitecaps have development centers in both Saskatoon and Regina, before approaching the Roughriders.  At the same time I don't think it is realistic to think they would be approaching the community before the Roughriders as they make or break the deal and provide pivotal financial and promotional support. 

If the Riders are on board then the next step has to be involving the soccer community across the province. Everything depends on the timeframe. 

This is where my ignorance kicks in, I tried looking but when is the proposed inaugural season starting? If we are talking announcing it around the grey cup to start next year (2016 season) you would hope key figures in the soccer community would have been approached for support. If it is being announced to start in 2017 or 18 maybe there is more time to build the brand and supporter base, not to mention rosters. 

Connecting with your fan base and community to build something could not be more pivotal though. 

Cripes. I typed in a long response, posted it, and it disappeared :(

 

Anyway, I agree with what you've said above, not only the importance of involving the soccer community early on, but also that I certainly share the fear that anyone involved in Regina won't have the wherewithal to realize how critical that step is. It would take very little investigation into what's happened with other pro teams in Canada to realize the difficulties created when you anger much of the soccer community instead of involving them.

 

Since Duane's article mentioning Regina as one of the rumoured locations for a team, it's been hard to think of anything else. And I have heard the odd rumour about the situation in other cities. The rumours have me wondering if the CSA is in discussions with Sports organizations (like True North Sports and Entertainment in Winnipeg for example), just CFL teams, more soccer-specific organizations like Foothills in Calgary, major investors that are not necessarily soccer or even sports related, or any combination of the above. I think, their best bet for success would be to have organizations in each city that tick these three boxes: 1) Major investor. 2) Sports Promotion Business. 3) Soccer understanding. (not necessarily in that order). Pretty hard to find all three of those in a single package, but the Riders at least fulfill two of these criteria. Calgary Sports and Entertainment in Calgary and True North in Winnipeg might also tick two boxes but not the third (Not sure of True North's ability to finance a soccer team, but CSEC must be able to considering the number of assets they have).

 

In the end, I still fear that this may be much ado about nothing.

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Suspect there is no secret to guard, because it's very difficult to keep something secret like that in a small city. The carrot that might have led to preliminary discussions would obviously have been using a World Cup bid as a way to leverage public infrastructure money, but Blatter's demise has probably ended the chance of a successful Canadian bid for 2026. In Australia, there have been a couple of attempts to launch pro soccer teams under the colours of two of the most famous Aussie Rules clubs, Carlton and Collingwood. Both ended in failure with little sign of interest being generated from fans of the other sport. In Scotland, Rangers tried to run a pro basketball team a couple of decades ago that also soon folded. Are there any examples of cross-marketing between sports actually working in recent times?

Nothing in recent times I can think of. However, alot of Euroleague basketball teams from famous clubs like Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Barcelona and Galatasaray to name a few were established decades after their respective soccer clubs were. I'm talking like the 30s or 40s when these teams didn't have any global appeal what so ever. Granted, the local popularity, which is the only thing that matters in this equation,  probably still heavily existed even at that time. Is there any reason you can think of that would have made it easier for an established sports team to establish a spin off team in a different sport back in the 30s or 40s compared to recent times? I'm not calling you out or anything because I am genuinely curious about this myself.

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The Hartford bid for NASL has fallen apart (with a criminal investigation underway no less), I think there is still time for Hamilton to get a bid in for NASL membership next year and the league should be even more agreeable to it than they were before.

Hartford never even got near to the bid stage with NASL, the principles in the Hartford said they were aiming for NASL but had focused on a MASL indoor team lately that was set to launch in November and now looks unlikely.

 

If the C-League doesn't come to fruition then a Hamilton NASL club for 2017 would be a good possibility, lead time for a bid proposal before the NASL BOG and launch for 2016 would be too short likely, slim outside chance for a fall 2016 entry with Puerto Rico FC.

 

 

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Not using the roughrider brand if it is offered would be mad.

There is a balance and using the name is a bad idea. Using the same colours and a name and badge that somehow connect to the Riders would be appropriate. Promotion and reporting on the team would be severely handicapped by using the same name for both teams.
 

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There is a balance and using the name is a bad idea. Using the same colours and a name and badge that somehow connect to the Riders would be appropriate. Promotion and reporting on the team would be severely handicapped by using the same name for both teams.
 

Granted and a good point. That would be ridiculously confusing. 

Its somewhat like Vancouver Whitecaps and Whitecaps 2 and the latter getting the nickname the Thundercaps. I imagine it would the Saskatchewan                           (<-- Insert new name there) but using the same colors similar branding of badge etc like you say.

 

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Granted and a good point. That would be ridiculously confusing. 

Its somewhat like Vancouver Whitecaps and Whitecaps 2 and the latter getting the nickname the Thundercaps. I imagine it would the Saskatchewan                           (<-- Insert new name there) but using the same colors similar branding of badge etc like you say.

 

I agree with the idea that the branding should be provincial, but I've also thought that Regina Rovers or Regina Rangers had decent rings to them.

 

Of course there's always Inter Regina :0

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I agree with the idea that the branding should be provincial,

I sure don't. Football is local. Why would you demand that Saskatoon support a Regina team? Why would you discourage a rivalry between two potential teams?

Besides, as the Whitecaps have shown you can have a local identity and still be seen as somehow representing the whole province <_<

 

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I sure don't. Football is local. Why would you demand that Saskatoon support a Regina team? Why would you discourage a rivalry between two potential teams?

Besides, as the Whitecaps have shown you can have a local identity and still be seen as somehow representing the whole province <_<

 

It's more about demographic pragmatism than anything else. Sparse population combined with few soccer fans might make it a necessity. Of course my speculation might not match the reality if and when.

 

Honestly, I'd love to see a team in each city. I think the rivalry would be great fun. But if it's going to be a struggle to make any team successful, let alone a team in the league's smallest market, I think the possibility that there would be two teams in SK is very remote indeed.

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It's more about demographic pragmatism than anything else. Sparse population combined with few soccer fans might make it a necessity. Of course my speculation might not match the reality if and when.

 

Honestly, I'd love to see a team in each city. I think the rivalry would be great fun. But if it's going to be a struggle to make any team successful, let alone a team in the league's smallest market, I think the possibility that there would be two teams in SK is very remote indeed.

We're also dealing with CFL owners, whose past commissioner made comments about how a team in Saskatoon would invade the Riders territory when questioned about expanding into that city. Putting a team in a city two and a half hours away would invade their territory? I'm not saying the CFL owners are both gutless and lack vision like the guy who made those remarks considering that particular individual is no longer with the league, but there is a good chance territorial rights will play a role in this league like any other sports league in North America. 

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Good points here. I think of course in an ideal world we would have teams in Saskatoon and Regina. Hell P.A. Moose Jaw and Swift Current too. I don't think that is really the argument if we are talking about Roughriders owning a Franchise. 

If it is a Roughriders team it is a provincial team, like the CFL Franchise. I think that throws up a lot of confusion otherwise. Unless some billionaire is sitting in Saskatoon bored, there is no competition for starting another team. In that light though I would like them to embrace it more and play some games in Saskatoon too. Griffith Stadium could easily host. Like Macksam says they get bent out of shape at any talk of a Saskatoon CFL team and its effect, but it is having your cake and eating it. Pretty common in Saskatchewan society in a whole host of mediums from my experience and I am sure much wider spread. Plenty of people willing to gripe and moan but zero interest in being part of the solution or helping find it. 

 

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Saskatoon is not a big pro sports town. The WHL team doesn't draw much, Huskies Football is popular but not overwhelmingly supported and the history of the city is littered with the graves of long gone pro teams in a swathe of different sports. The Riders have a big following but they are not omnipresent like in Regina or Moose Jaw. Weekends are for the cabin in summer, the metro area is only 300k if you are pushing it, and the biggest part of the China commodities-driven boom looks to be in the rearview mirror so huge growth isn't in the future. Saskatoon may support some kind of team but certainly not one with a $2M+ budget.

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