Macksam Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 My gripe was with you equating the CSA's footballing IQ to their ability to get a proper stream running. I have no issue with adding more NASL teams here. When it comes to your viewpoint on Wales and New Zealand, you're really confused. Even though both of those associations have pro teams playing in top divisions of other countries, they both also operate top divisions of their own. Isn't that what the CSA is proposing? Having a top division that co-exists with MLS and NASL? New Zealand even has regional leagues underneath their top division, which is also something the CSA wants to mimic. You can see why I think you're really confused here. So, to clarify, you're saying we shouldn't be like Wales and New Zealand, "two of the biggest success stories in recent years in int'l footy"? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcalibre Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 My gripe was with you equating the CSA's footballing IQ to their ability to get a proper stream running. I have no issue with adding more NASL teams here. When it comes to your viewpoint on Wales and New Zealand, you're really confused. Even though both of those associations have pro teams playing in top divisions of other countries, they both also operate top divisions of their own. Isn't that what the CSA is proposing? Having a top division that co-exists with MLS and NASL? New Zealand even has regional leagues underneath their top division, which is also something the CSA wants to mimic. You can see why I think you're really confused here. So, to clarify, you're saying we shouldn't be like Wales and New Zealand, "two of the biggest success stories in recent years in int'l footy"? lol The stream comment was more of a tongue-in-cheek critique of the CSA. I think people underestimate just how amateurish things really are over there, despite the best efforts of Gavin D and a few other people who aren't given adequate resources. Yes, Wales has a "D1", but the bulk of their national team and pro opportunities are in the top 3 or 4 divisions in England. Similarly, we need to max out professional development opportunities in the NASL, USL, etc. The Welsh FA would be stupid to take Wrexham, Cardiff, etc (basically anyone not in the Prem right now) out of the English league structure and into the Welsh structure - yet we have people here saying Edmonton, Ottawa etc should move over to a Canadian league. Wales is also much tinier - the costs of running a semi-pro nationwide league aren't as prohibitive as they are here with travel expenses. At the least, the worst thing we can do is wait. I remember the discussions on the old Network54 board about a pro league back in 2001. We're now hardly any closer. To turn down cities/teams that want to join PDL, USL, or NASL on the vague promise of D1A regional leagues within the next few years is madness. And no good to the young players who aren't getting those opportunities. EDIT: Dub Narcotic put it better than I could here: http://www.thevoyageurs.org/index.php?/topic/28322-breaking-news-c-league-news-and-what-cities-will-be-involved/?p=529124 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 Again with the confusion. The CSA isn't turning anyone down when it comes to the NASL. Hamilton, a city with an investor who has shown interest in the league is currently exploring the idea of investing in a Canadian league instead. However, should he at any point in time decide to go the NASL route, he can freely do so. The rest of what you say is just opinion really. It seems like you have the case of the BBTB, trying to masquerade your ardent viewpoints as facts. I am disappointed in you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 I would actually say it is unclear what the CSA's position on the NASL is. Their initial sanctioning ban announcement referred to Canadian clubs joining 'any American-run league'. Obviously the Fury were allowed to join the NASL in 2013 but I would still guess teams need explicit permission from the CSA to do so. How this differs from the USL ban, if at all, is unclear to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcalibre Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Again with the confusion. The CSA isn't turning anyone down when it comes to the NASL. Hamilton, a city with an investor who has shown interest in the league is currently exploring the idea of investing in a Canadian league instead. However, should he at any point in time decide to go the NASL route, he can freely do so. The rest of what you say is just opinion really. It seems like you have the case of the BBTB, trying to masquerade your ardent viewpoints as facts. I am disappointed in you. And if you read what I said, I never said they were doing that - I said it was madness to turn down any city trying to join any of the US divisions from 2 to 4 - we've heard they've done it for USL, I imagine it hasn't come to pass for NASL yet but as Dub notes, the CSA's announcement did seem to rule it out. So scratch out the opinions in my post - care to reply to any of the facts I've cited? It's easy to hide behind a condescending response when your argument has been eviscerated. So why should the CSA be blocking USL sanctions? Why should teenage players be losing 2 or 3 years of professional development on the vague promise of an eventual Canadian division? Why should the CSA, a federation noted for actively hampering it's national teams with poor decisions, be trusted with something like that when there's a perfectly serviceable structure south of the border? I could understand if we were devoting all this energy to forcing Canadian quotas for Canadian teams in those leagues, which - in my opinion - would serve a much better purpose (same amount of roster spots but a much higher level of competition) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Those are all valid opinions and there are other valid one's 180 degrees apart. No need to get out the violins and turn this into a hyperbole exercise though. You get the distinct impression FIFA said if you want to go forward in the game and/or host the World Cup you need a domestic league. And if that's the case all argumentation is moot. And for some of us it would be the most fantastic and exciting thing to happen in our lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 And if you read what I said, I never said they were doing that - I said it was madness to turn down any city trying to join any of the US divisions from 2 to 4 - we've heard they've done it for USL, I imagine it hasn't come to pass for NASL yet but as Dub notes, the CSA's announcement did seem to rule it out. So scratch out the opinions in my post - care to reply to any of the facts I've cited? It's easy to hide behind a condescending response when your argument has been eviscerated. So why should the CSA be blocking USL sanctions? Why should teenage players be losing 2 or 3 years of professional development on the vague promise of an eventual Canadian division? Why should the CSA, a federation noted for actively hampering it's national teams with poor decisions, be trusted with something like that when there's a perfectly serviceable structure south of the border? I could understand if we were devoting all this energy to forcing Canadian quotas for Canadian teams in those leagues, which - in my opinion - would serve a much better purpose (same amount of roster spots but a much higher level of competition) You and Dub need to double check the CSA's moratorium on this issue. The ban was specifically on D3 ventutres like USL Pro. Don't try to muddle the facts here by saying the CSA's position on the NASL is unclear. It's cut and dry. The ban was on teams trying to sanction D3 teams in USL Pro, not D2 clubs from the NASL. If you can cite an article that says otherwise, be my guest. When it comes to your opinion on the CSA blocking USL Pro sanctions and losing "2 or 3 years of a Canadian player's development" , you mind telling me which specific USL pro franchise would be up and running right now if the ban wasn't in place? I'd like to see sources on the potential city, it's financial backers and which stadium is to be utilized. Also, don't even mention the PDL. I'm not even going to dignify a response with a D4 league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcalibre Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 You and Dub need to double check the CSA's moratorium on this issue. The ban was specifically on D3 ventutres like USL Pro. Don't try to muddle the facts here by saying the CSA's position on the NASL is unclear. It's cut and dry. The ban was on teams trying to sanction D3 teams in USL Pro, not D2 clubs from the NASL. If you can cite an article that says otherwise, be my guest. When it comes to your opinion on the CSA blocking USL Pro sanctions and losing "2 or 3 years of a Canadian player's development" , you mind telling me which specific USL pro franchise would be up and running right now if the ban wasn't in place? I'd like to see sources on the potential city, it's financial backers and which stadium is to be utilized. Also, don't even mention the PDL. I'm not even going to dignify a response with a D4 league. Agreed, we don't have hard evidence of specific cities being denied, but we do know the CSA has said they'll block USL Pro sanctions. That in itself might discourage potential investors from coming forward. Say what you will about the PDL, but it's a higher level than anything we have in Canada. There's a reason TFC Academy were adamant about getting at least a year from it on top of their OL1 commitments, contrary to the CSA (or at least the OSA)'s position. Yet another example of the governing body prioritizing this fetish for Canadian-only leagues when there's an American structure ready and available (and with a higher quality of play that better serves our youngers, as in TFCA). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Yet another example of the governing body prioritizing this fetish for Canadian-only leagues when there's an American structure ready and available Every governing body in the world prioritizes a domestic league, that's called mainstream. The fetish is selling your soul to someone who has a vested interest in marginalizing you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Humberlands Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Every governing body in the world prioritizes a domestic league, that's called mainstream. The fetish is selling your soul to someone who has a vested interest in marginalizing you. My thoughts exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcalibre Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Does the FA have a vested interest in marginalizing Cardiff and Swansea? They took over the administration of those clubs from the Welsh FA a few years back. Shockingly, most of Wales' top footballers came through their academies rather than the Welsh first division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Cockney Rip Off Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Does the FA have a vested interest in marginalizing Cardiff and Swansea? They took over the administration of those clubs from the Welsh FA a few years back. Shockingly, most of Wales' top footballers came through their academies rather than the Welsh first division. that is not quite the same. Welsh footballers count as domestic players in the English pyramid. Canada would need a first devision as it is the only league that Canadians would count as domestic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtlMario Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Peter Montopoli was in Mtl. for Canadian Championship game on Aug.12 between Mtl and Vanc. and I asked him about a new Canadian league connected with the CFL and he left me with the impression that it's coming even without confirming it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I have no doubt that they are working hard at it. I read something from New Brunswick that is thinking about putting its top players in a league somewhere and they mention, USL, PLSQ and a new Canadian League, according to one person who's leading the project in New Brunswick. It's not just Duane who's reporting it. Now, It doesn't mention that a team from New Brunswick would play in that league, it means more that they are looking at the next step for the elite players from the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I have no doubt that they are working hard at it. I read something from New Brunswick that is thinking about putting its top players in a league somewhere and they mention, USL, PLSQ and a new Canadian League, according to one person who's leading the project in New Brunswick. It's not just Duane who's reporting it. Now, It doesn't mention that a team from New Brunswick would play in that league, it means more that they are looking at the next step for the elite players from the region. Saint John had a Super Y team a few years ago. It didn't last long I don't think. That's surprising about New Brunswick trying to find an elite league. The Maritimes are really isolated and young players have no pathway there to look forward to. I'd be shocked it they find some sort of league to play in. Not only does New Brunswick probably have the least amount of talent in the Maritime Provinces for soccer (sorry!), the logistics of travel are killer for any higher level league. I'm very interested to see what happens out there. As someone who grew up playing in N.S and played University soccer there, the Maritimes really haven't improved in producing players at all in 20 years. Although I understand the Impact academy have 4 players from Halifax. The Maritime Provinces need a daily provincial high performance school program like the Manitoba Soccer Association has Winnipeg in order to get the kids to play enough soccer to really improve and market them to academies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcalibre Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 that is not quite the same. Welsh footballers count as domestic players in the English pyramid. Canada would need a first devision as it is the only league that Canadians would count as domestic. NASL and USL count Canadians as domestic, no? I think MLS either needs to make Canadians domestic on American teams, or make it so Americans are no longer domestic on Canadian teams (would lead to a talent drought at first, but force the 3 Canadian teams to play more Canadians) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 USL does, NASL doesn't. As someone who supports Canada staying in the American system I think the CSA is going to have to go nuclear on this domestic issue in MLS pretty soon. I don't want any sort of quota but counting Americans as internationals or some sort of 'international tax' on the Canadian club teams would push this issue to the forefront. MLS clubs would love access to a bigger domestic pool of players so they are natural allies to the CSA in this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I don't think MLS cares much about the domestic pool anymore. Look how quick PTFC and SSFC foreign players can get green cards. Sometimes less than 6 months. It seems like $$$ and the right lawyer can make you a domestic in MLS in less than a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Maybe the Swiss DOJ will swoop in a with a grudge indictment, no wait, they naturalize anyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 In the latest Two Solitudes, Duane Rollins reported that the new league will be announced during the Grey Cup timeframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 ^ Interesting discussion. At least Duane knows the longer this drags on the more he risks looking like an idiot. But seriously, This CFL partnership could be promising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 In the latest Two Solitudes, Duane Rollins reported that the new league will be announced during the Grey Cup timeframe. So when there's no announcement he'll say that he meant next years Grey Cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Yes, the new MLS television deal in Canada is going to be interesting. The ratings aren't there (and might never be with generational cord-cutting) but the demographics look right and it's still enough of a 'property' that I think they will get some not-particularly-lucrative deal. The EPL, World Cup, Euro and Champions League rights are all that really matter to the networks so the MLS rights are probably seen in relation to how they fit with those properties and how much soccer budget is left after the bidding process for those tournaments. Edit: For those who didn't listen to the podcast, Johnathan Tannenwald thinks the Canadian networks might link their rights bids to a change in the Canadians-as-domestics rule. This segues into a conversation about whether or not the Canadian league is really happening or just a negotiation ruse by the CSA to force MLS/USSF's hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fil Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 http://t.thestar.com/?q=Rugby#/article/sports/2015/10/03/local-group-looks-to-bring-rugby-league-to-toronto.html Interesting that their are plans to bring a rugby team to Toronto that will play in UK's third division rugby league! With the cost of flying players to England, I cant see how the hell this team would not lose money even if they get promoted to first division. The rumoured Canadian league 1 has a better chance of succeeding. Clearly their are investors that will take big risks on sports even in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 In the latest Two Solitudes, Duane Rollins reported that the new league will be announced during the Grey Cup timeframe. A couple other tidbits in there. The Katz group may have approached the Faths about buying FC Edmonton but were turned down. They would use the C league as a stepping stone to MLS, same with the money in Calgary (Flames?). He did reiterate its CFL people working with TSN. Also some details. 20 man rosters with 75% Canadian quota. 120 Canadian spots. It's an estimate but that's a lot of spots for the player pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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