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Hosting the World Cup gets the CFL-oriented investors they appear to have been going after with the interlocking league with the NASL plan, stadium and infrastructure upgrades with public money. Take that pot of gold out of the equation and I seriously doubt anything is going to happen on this, because startup soccer leagues are usually a recipe for losing a lot of money. The lack of NASL expansion announcements in Hamilton and Calgary or about the launch of a new league during the Gold Cup and Pan-Am Games is difficult to spin any other way regardless of what is being said in certain podcasts. The World Cup bid is not dead yet, so can understand why people would want to keep the pot boiling, but it's now very much in longshot territory. As for the Don Cherry soccer stuff there are more than enough real soccer fans out there to keep the three MLS teams afloat. The lesson that was finally learned in that context was to go after those people instead of worrying about the mainstream and introducing gimmicks like overtime and shoot-outs that turn off the core audience.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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Like long term which would you chose: one world cup in canada, or a long term, successful canadian league with 8-14 teams that was part of the popular culture and accepted by the average Canadian.  I just feel like put that way it's a no brainer, despite the year long euphoric high I would experience if we hosted a WC.  Sorry to double post.

 

Why can't we have both? I don't think that we have to choose between one and another.

I don't think that the anti-soccer people will change if we put rules like that because they hate the sport in the first place. You can't be loved by everyone, and if you do too drastic rule changes, you'll be hated by purists.

 

Remember the MLS shootouts or the counting down clock or overtime for regular seasons? MLS wanted something more serious and moved to something more traditional because they knew that the first people they  had to convince are soccer fans. I do think that we have enough soccer fans and you have to sell the league to soccer fans.

 

Do you think that anyone can convince Dan Shaugnessy or Ann Coulter of Bob McCown that they shouldn't diss soccer?  I don't think so.

 

I can't speak for other Canadian MLS cities, but the Impact is the second most media-followed team in the province of Quebec. In front of the Alouettes. Sure, there are still anti-soccer people in Quebec, but the coverage is there now.

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K, first off

 

Please let me know if you are a soccer fan or purist who thinks diving is either OK or desirable and it adds something beneficial to the sport.

 

If you honestly feel that way, and want to publicly acknowledge that right now, then by all means call wanting harsher penalties and enforcement for diving a "Don Cherry" soccer rule.

 

I for one, and most of the soccer fans I know, feel diving is a tumor that needs to be cut out from the sport. Maybe the 5 minute rule is unreasonable, maybe instant replay doesn't happen, but I see NO reason barring FIFA regulations to not have post game review of divers and laying down fines and suspensions for it. It's not in any way effecting the game played on the pitch, it's only effecting players and teams who engage in/tolerate this behavior after the game has been played. If a player doesn't want to cross the pond and deal with the risk of a diving suspension, then good riddance as far as I am concerned.

 

It's not like those who want to see diving out of the sport are asking it to be replaced with fisticuffs.

Edited by -Hammer-

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Hosting the World Cup gets the CFL-oriented investors they appear to have been going after with the interlocking league with the NASL plan, stadium and infrastructure upgrades with public money. Take that pot of gold out of the equation and I seriously doubt anything is going to happen on this, because startup soccer leagues are usually a recipe for losing a lot of money. The lack of NASL expansion announcements in Hamilton and Calgary or about the launch of a new league during the Gold Cup and Pan-Am Games is difficult to spin any other way regardless of what is being said in certain podcasts. The World Cup bid is not dead yet, so can understand why people would want to keep the pot boiling, but it's now very much in longshot territory. As for the Don Cherry soccer stuff there are more than enough real soccer fans out there to keep the three MLS teams afloat. The lesson that was finally learned in that context was to go after those people instead of worrying about the mainstream and introducing gimmicks like overtime and shoot-outs that turn off the core audience.

 

Yeah, but the problem is those three MLS teams aren't capable of producing enough quality players for our national team, have no capacity to expand professional play further across our nation (as no more MLS spots are likely to open up in Canada) and have footprints limited to their markets making collective national interest hard to build.

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K, first off

 

Please let me know if you are a soccer fan or purist who thinks diving is either OK or desirable and it adds something beneficial to the sport.

 

If you honestly feel that way, and want to publicly acknowledge that right now, then by all means call wanting harsher penalties and enforcement for diving a "Don Cherry" soccer rule.

 

I for one, and most of the soccer fans I know, feel diving is a tumor that needs to be cut out from the sport. Maybe the 5 minute rule is unreasonable, maybe instant replay doesn't happen, but I see NO reason barring FIFA regulations to not have post game review of divers and laying down fines and suspensions for it. It's not in any way effecting the game played on the pitch, it's only effecting players and teams who engage in/tolerate this behavior after the game has been played. If a player doesn't want to cross the pond and deal with the risk of a diving suspension, then good riddance as far as I am concerned.

 

It's not like those who want to see diving out of the sport are asking it to be replaced with fisticuffs.

 

Have I ever said that diving was ok? I never said that. I do think that it is part of the game like in any sport and I doubt that it will disappear even in this league.

 

It's something that happens. I do think that we can enforce stuff like reveiwing certain events post matches and fine/suspend divers.  The thing about purists was a gimmicky thing like if a player gets injured he need to stay out for X minutes. I just don't think that you can stop it. If the NHL can't stop it, why could a soccer league do it? That was my point. I do think that you can have rules to reduce the frequency.

 

Fining/suspending divers can be done. I've never said otherwise. I just think that any other punishment like delayed re-entry is ridculous as of now. I do think that those stoppages due to an injury real or not affects the game at all. I don't know why we call it time-wasting, because that time is supposed to be played at the end of the 45. I do think that a rule like that would be bad for the game.

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Have I ever said that diving was ok? I never said that. I do think that it is part of the game like in any sport and I doubt that it will disappear even in this league.

 

It's something that happens. I do think that we can enforce stuff like reveiwing certain events post matches and fine/suspend divers.  The thing about purists was a gimmicky thing like if a player gets injured he need to stay out for X minutes. I just don't think that you can stop it. If the NHL can't stop it, why could a soccer league do it? That was my point. I do think that you can have rules to reduce the frequency.

 

Fining/suspending divers can be done. I've never said otherwise. I just think that any other punishment like delayed re-entry is ridculous as of now. I do think that those stoppages due to an injury real or not affects the game at all. I don't know why we call it time-wasting, because that time is supposed to be played at the end of the 45. I do think that a rule like that would be bad for the game.

 

To be fair, my comments more directed at Blizzard, hence why I outright said "Don Cherry" rules. My comments were basically to say, even Purists want this crap taken out of the game, and I do believe that many of them would look favourably upon at least trying out a set of rules to get it out of the game.

 

The NHL is also starting to do it, because now the fines are getting higher and higher for it, and they are publicly shaming players who do it. The next step is of course laying down suspensions, but it's completely reasonable to see it come out of the game.

 

As far as the X minutes are concerned, if you are going draw a foul, fake injury, disrupt a play and scoring chance, get taken out on a stretcher and then stand up and walk back onto the field like nothing happened (See the Costa Rica game) that deserves a card, and the ref isn't going to be able to police that sideline himself. I'll give you that it won't likely happen (it makes too much sense after all) but I know the most common (somewhat wrongful) complaint I hear about soccer is that it is watching actors pretend to be hurt.

Edited by -Hammer-

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Don't think MLS can be criticized on the commitment to Canadian player development angle now that the three USL teams are in place. That was the missing stepping stone in the development system, given the Academy systems were not fully pro for NCAA eligibility reasons and are not directly comparable to what happens in other countries overseas at the pro level. That initiative needs to be given another five years or so before being judged a failure.

 

Don't buy the no more MLS spots available for Canada argument. People said that before TFC, before Vancouver and before Montreal. Think an Alberta team is possible down the road.

 

On the diving thing, if you are from a country that tends to play a more physical style that tends to be the main fixation on cheating. In countries where there is more of an emphasis on skill over athleticism, issues like having a six foot three Scottish psychopath going over the top of the ball in the first few minutes of a game to let the opposition know he is there will tend to come to the fore more. Diving and exaggerating the extent of an injury are yellow card offences, so the policies that are already in place can get the job done on this, if the referees simply do their job. FIFA rightly or wrongly has chosen to side more with highly skilled players in all of this rather than soccer's version of a grinder.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

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Don't think MLS can be criticized on the commitment to Canadian player development angle now that the three USL teams are in place. That was the missing stepping stone in the development system, given the Academy systems were not fully pro for NCAA eligibility reasons and are not directly comparable to what happens in other countries overseas at the pro level. That initiative needs to be given another five years or so before being judged a failure.

 

Don't buy the no more MLS spots available for Canada argument. People said that before TFC, before Vancouver and before Montreal. Think an Alberta team is possible down the road.

 

On the diving thing, if you are from a country that tends to play a more physical style that tends to be the main fixation on cheating. In countries where there is more of an emphasis on skill over athleticism, issues like having a six foot three Scottish psychopath going over the top of the ball in the first few minutes of a game to let the opposition know he is there will tend to come to the fore more. Diving and exaggerating the extent of an injury are yellow card offences, so the policies that are already in place can get the job done on this, if the referees simply do their job. FIFA rightly or wrongly has chosen to side more with highly skilled players in all of this rather than soccer's version of a grinder.

 

I think given the quality of play, the non-exsistant presence of it in Canadian's minds  and the fact that they still aren't making a wage you can live on, already makes it a non-starter. Even if somehow MLS drops another team, you still have the problem that teams need only put 3 Canadians on the pitch and they aren't getting nearly enough minutes to become better. Our youth development isn't as bad as it used to be, it's the fact you have no where to go in our country to make a career out of the game. High end minutes are worth far more to us then whole seasons in the USL.

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I think given everything I'm reading, the proper course of action would be for MLS to find a couple leagues that agree with this line of thought...and take those leagues and start petitioning FIFA for a global rule change.

 

If that becomes public, MLS starts to look like a good guy, while still remaining purists to the global game without "Americanizing" rules.  (which is a deadly precedent and has killed the sport in America in the past, which is why they are wanting to avoid doing it)

 

Better still, maybe FIFA actually listens!

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It's a non-issue really because more likely than not a new league isn't happening and even if it does it will form part of the support for a wider 2026 FIFA World Cup hosting bid, so the CSA are not going to rock the boat. As for the quality of play of MLS, I think it's getting better every season and the league overall is a lot more exciting than most European leagues where the same two or three clubs win season after season. Think it's a difficult adjustment for people, who are used to following the fortunes of top European clubs to have to deal with supporting a club like TFC that isn't going to win most of its games and can go many season without making the playoffs. Pro soccer in Canada is light years ahead of where it was 10 to 20 years ago thanks to MLS entry and I'm quite hopeful that the Academy systems and USL teams are going to start to have a positive impact on the CMNT in 5 to 10 years time. It's worth bearing in mind that there are always opportunities in Europe, if things don't work out in MLS and opportunities are limited at D2 level things because things have progressed to the point where MLS is a higher standard than a lot of fully pro soccer played overseas.

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MLS is a lot more exciting than most European leagues

 

You need to get out more.

 

 

MLS is a higher standard than a lot of fully pro soccer played overseas.

 

MLS is overseas.

Edited by Vic

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Lol I'm so lost.  I don't think he was saying it's more exciting in terms of quality.  But like people have said, its gotten a lot better, and if you're a fan of a team that isn't a juggernaut(if MLS was like europe LA Galaxy would win everything every year) the league has more in terms of potential for rooting for a winning team.  The problem, as many mentioned is that most people over here are fans of teams(in europe) that are powerhouses, and convincing them to hop on a much more unstable bandwagon isn't easy, especially because the gulf in quality still exists(although it is narrowing).  

As for the "Don Cherry" Rule - perhaps I went a bit overboard suggesting people sit out for 5 minutes.  But if we want any hope to appeal to the mainstream we need to punish divers/embellishers EXTREMELY harshly.  (I know people have been going on about appealling to certain markets, but I see it as trying to find a happy medium that ticks off all the boxes aka voyageurs, eurosnobs, casual and fairweather fans) - I don't want to see much changed about soccer, but that is the one thing that still bothers me.  And honestly, like someone said, I think we could get english fans on board in terms of appealing to FIFA, and that would certainly be a good place to start.

I would just like to be able to say to my non-soccer watching friends(I know I know, who cares about these peoples opinions - but we SHOULD) that the Canadian League doesn't tolerate that SHITE.  And be able to say it forcefully, with convinction, so that they stand up and take notice.  Help them develop a sense of pride in our guys, even if it is only in a fairweather sense.

Anyways I think I'm rambling at this point.

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Lol I'm so lost.  I don't think he was saying it's more exciting in terms of quality.  But like people have said, its gotten a lot better, and if you're a fan of a team that isn't a juggernaut(if MLS was like europe LA Galaxy would win everything every year) the league has more in terms of potential for rooting for a winning team.  The problem, as many mentioned is that most people over here are fans of teams(in europe) that are powerhouses, and convincing them to hop on a much more unstable bandwagon isn't easy, especially because the gulf in quality still exists(although it is narrowing).  

As for the "Don Cherry" Rule - perhaps I went a bit overboard suggesting people sit out for 5 minutes.  But if we want any hope to appeal to the mainstream we need to punish divers/embellishers EXTREMELY harshly.  (I know people have been going on about appealling to certain markets, but I see it as trying to find a happy medium that ticks off all the boxes aka voyageurs, eurosnobs, casual and fairweather fans) - I don't want to see much changed about soccer, but that is the one thing that still bothers me.  And honestly, like someone said, I think we could get english fans on board in terms of appealing to FIFA, and that would certainly be a good place to start.

I would just like to be able to say to my non-soccer watching friends(I know I know, who cares about these peoples opinions - but we SHOULD) that the Canadian League doesn't tolerate that SHITE.  And be able to say it forcefully, with convinction, so that they stand up and take notice.  Help them develop a sense of pride in our guys, even if it is only in a fairweather sense.

Anyways I think I'm rambling at this point.

 

I'm a bit lost too, I honestly think Blizzard is confusing parity with Quality. MLS has a lot more pairity for sure, but you just don't see the epic goals and passing in MLS with anywhere near as much frequency then you see in any of the major European leagues (The Premier League, La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga) or the UEFA champions league play (of which CONCAAF doesn't even remotely compare). I disagree with your assement of the USL, as well Blizzard, but I think I've made my points clear why I feel we've hit the glass ceiling as far as what our current MLS dominated pyramid can do.

Edited by -Hammer-

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Also, I think whoever mentioned that an Alberta MLS team was possible down the road is absolutely right.  And honestly, if you have one AB team, you're gonna have two.  It's just how it works.  

FCEs average attendance has been gradually increasing since their inception - about 1500 the first 2 years, to 2500 last year, to 3300 this year.  It may not seem like much, but upward trends are positive signs, and I feel like a tipping point is possible in the next few years.  

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^Yea, I think that's what he meant.  Quality=fan enjoyment quality, from chance of rooting for a winning team

 

that being said, upward trends are positive signs, and I don't think many would deny that MLS is not trending upwards.

Edited by GuillermoDelQuarto

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Today's story from the Ottawa Sun seems to lean towards the possibility that this new Canadian D1a "C-League" is more than just rumours :

 

http://m.ottawasun.com/2015/08/28/no-interest-for-canadian-expansion-nasl-commish

 

"Though Hamilton and Winnipeg had previously been touted as potential locations for Canadian NASL clubs, that appears to no longer be the case and, according to league commissioner Bill Peterson, there aren't any other immediate options."

 

We know that Hamilton is working on a pro club and they were possibly leading an effort for the "C-League", seems more likely now that this new league is really being organized and will happen with Hamilton choosing to enter its coming pro club in it.

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MLS has pretty much replaced the EPL for me. I don't have a strong rooting interest in any team over there, the title race is not exciting in the slightest and two of the top teams playing a really boring style (Chelsea and United). It's not that I hate the league, I would just rather do something else with my time and I did not renew my Sportsnet World Now subscription. The Champions league is a different story.

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I watch the MLS and don't care much for the EPL as well.  And by "most European Leagues", it's not La liga or EPL he was talking about.  I find MLS much more exciting than Bosnian league, Croatian league for example. 

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I prefer watching Canadians play.  I watch men's, women's, youth, pretty much anything whenever I can get out.  Don't watch MLS, if I want to watch foreign soccer I watch European.  It's much better quality in terms of the play, the production, etc.

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Today's story from the Ottawa Sun seems to lean towards the possibility that this new Canadian D1a "C-League" is more than just rumours :

 

http://m.ottawasun.com/2015/08/28/no-interest-for-canadian-expansion-nasl-commish

 

"Though Hamilton and Winnipeg had previously been touted as potential locations for Canadian NASL clubs, that appears to no longer be the case and, according to league commissioner Bill Peterson, there aren't any other immediate options."

 

...or to the possibility that nothing much is happening on this now that the 2026 World Cup hosting bid aligned with Traffic Sports is unlikely to succeed in the post-Blatter environment at FIFA.

 

Peterson cautioned people not "read anything into" the lack of Canadian interest, saying he didn't think there was a specific reason for it. But the commissioner does seem genuinely supportive of adding at least a third NASL franchise to join Ottawa and Edmonton....As for Hamilton and Winnipeg, there doesn't seem to have been much to those rumours. "That was a wish-list," Peterson said. "Somebody asked what cities could you see playing; you could see Calgary, you could see Winnipeg, you could see Hamilton, but we just haven't entered into the level of discussion that we have in some other places.

 

Bear in mind also John Pugh's nothing concrete remarks as evidence for the idea that nothing is happening.

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I prefer watching Canadians play. I watch men's, women's, youth, pretty much anything whenever I can get out. Don't watch MLS, if I want to watch foreign soccer I watch European. It's much better quality in terms of the play, the production, etc.

QFT

This sums up my feelings for MLS now perfectly. If I want to watch foreigners play, I'll watch the best and not MLS. I DVR every Whitecaps and TFC match and if a Canadian isn't in the starting eleven, I just delete it, lol.

Edited by Macksam

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Yep, I also delete the MLS games if Canadians aren't playing.  That said, because MLS is my preference, I feel like I'm not watching a lot of soccer this year.  At least I have Foothills FC to support now lol

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