Canadian Premier League

[soccerfromsauga]

Mississauga and being branded as Toronto is what I always invisioned when it comes to the GTA club for this league. It just makes too much sense.

Being from Mississauga myself, there's no way I can see mississaugans supporting a pro club. 

Look at the history of failed sports in Mississauga -

1. NBL pro basketball - Mississauga Power - what a mess!!!
2. IBL semi-pro baseball - Mississauga Twins 
3. OHL hockey - Mississauga Ice Dogs & Mississauga St. Mike's Majors (forcing Melnyk to sell the franchise an become the Steelheads)
4. CSL soccer - Mississauga Eagles 
5. etc....

IMO, Mississauga is just too close to Toronto making it so easy for Mississaugans (and sponsors) to take a short drive and support a bigger club. Not to mention the lack of soccer facilities in the city. Hershey Centre is our best facility to house pro soccer yet its bleacher seating and has fencing open to the public (unless u tarp the fence). Hershey's facility is also double fielded meaning that hosting pro soccer on field 1 would either force field 2 to be closed or allow for people to walk straight through. 

In terms of building a suitable stadium on the grounds is close to impossible as well. Hershey Centre is operated by a private venue management company along with the City of Mississauga. Theres no way the City will dump millions of $ into a SSS seating 10,000 fans (esp. if it needs to be built by 2018).

Face it, FC Edmonton doesn't even have a suitable stadium and they have had a few years to develop a fan base. If they can't even get backing from the City of Edmonton to build a new stadium, how can we expect cities of new franchises to dive in...   

 

 

[Dub Narcotic]

Some more talk on Two Solitudes about this today; Montagliani was obviously implying that any league will be a similar single-entity structure to MLS; also, given that 2017 is already a stretch for the league 2018 is being mooted by the podcast hosts as the earliest possible date for the league to start. I believe that is past Bob Young's exclusivity date for a Hamilton soccer team @ Tim Horton's field. Someone can correct me if that's not the case.

Another part of the interview that they didn't really talk about was the "butts in seats are not enough". That implies a television deal is gating the league going forward.

[Jason]

Some more talk on Two Solitudes about this today; Montagliani was obviously implying that any league will be a similar single-entity structure to MLS; also, given that 2017 is already a stretch for the league 2018 is being mooted by the podcast hosts as the earliest possible date for the league to start. I believe that is past Bob Young's exclusivity date for a Hamilton soccer team @ Tim Horton's field. Someone can correct me if that's not the case.

Another part of the interview that they didn't really talk about was the "butts in seats are not enough". That implies a television deal is gating the league going forward.

I'm pretty sure there will be a TV deal, but I can't imagine it would provide much revenue.  This league essentially is an unknown quantity, and just having their games at no charge on TSN would actually be pretty good.  I think the Toronto Rock of lacrosse were paying TSN2 to show their games at least a few years back - maybe that has now changed.

Jason

[matty]

Being from Mississauga myself, there's no way I can see mississaugans supporting a pro club. 

Look at the history of failed sports in Mississauga -

1. NBL pro basketball - Mississauga Power - what a mess!!!
2. IBL semi-pro baseball - Mississauga Twins 
3. OHL hockey - Mississauga Ice Dogs & Mississauga St. Mike's Majors (forcing Melnyk to sell the franchise an become the Steelheads)
4. CSL soccer - Mississauga Eagles 
5. etc....

IMO, Mississauga is just too close to Toronto making it so easy for Mississaugans (and sponsors) to take a short drive and support a bigger club. Not to mention the lack of soccer facilities in the city. Hershey Centre is our best facility to house pro soccer yet its bleacher seating and has fencing open to the public (unless u tarp the fence). Hershey's facility is also double fielded meaning that hosting pro soccer on field 1 would either force field 2 to be closed or allow for people to walk straight through. 

 

 

With the exception of the OHL, I wouldn't give any of those teams any thought on this matter. NBL, CSL and IBL all lack any real exposure. CSL and IBL were on the Rogers cable access stations and the NBL couldn't even afford to put their games on BeIN Sports when they were given it. If Rollins is right and TSN is involved then this team has a huge edge on those three leagues. The OHL stuff is pretty bad but it seems to be enough to keep them from giving up on Mississauga.

I do however agree about the stadium. It would need a massive reno to host a pro team.

[soccerfromsauga]

I really agree with local clubs putting money aside to build small stadiums. 

We always talk about how local clubs develop players from u5-u18 but then there's no where for players to go. If clubs invest in a stadium, a pro first team, etc. the game in Canada will grow!

We need a full pyramid system with our clubs. Personally, that's what I like a lot about the L1O franchises - something for a player within the club to strive towards. 

It's time to go away with the amateur youth club approach and it's time to create fully holistic soccer clubs who develop and keep players within their systems from toddlers to pros (just like pretty much every where else in the world!!!!)

[CDNFootballer]

Only place a Vancouver team could play would be 5288 capacity Swangard Stadium in Burnaby, no other stadiums in the Metro area would work. Surrey has talked in the past about building a 10K stadium which would be a much better option since its a lot farther out from the Caps stadium downtown.

[Macksam]

IMO, Mississauga is just too close to Toronto making it so easy for Mississaugans (and sponsors) to take a short drive and support a bigger club. Not to mention the lack of soccer facilities in the city. Hershey Centre is our best facility to house pro soccer yet its bleacher seating and has fencing open to the public (unless u tarp the fence). Hershey's facility is also double fielded meaning that hosting pro soccer on field 1 would either force field 2 to be closed or allow for people to walk straight through. 

 

Which is why I stated in the post after the team would have to be appear to be on equal footing to TFC, which isn't hard to manage.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Think the main problem in all of this is that they backed the wrong horse on the USL vs NASL thing, because Traffic were going to be involved with a CSA 2026 WC bid. Reading between the lines the NASL minus Traffic are not keen, which is why it all morphed into a "C League". If you could get the three USL reserve teams in the major markets rebranded FC Montreal style in a Canadian branded counterpart to the USL, and could get Hamilton in along with Ottawa and Edmonton, you are two away from Montagliani's ideal number of eight. Calgary would be the obvious seventh entry, and there are still a few possibilities for reaching eight at that point. As it stands talking about a lack of investors in Toronto and Vancouver looks to me like a way of letting people down gently, whose hopes have been built up. If the MLS franchises are not on board it was always going to be very difficult to find investors in those cities.

[ray]

Even the CSA would have to I agree that a start date of 2018 is the best case scenario for "C-League".

So at what point does the CSA have to decide between the C-League and letting teams join USL Pro/NASL as they see fit?  I think we are quickly reaching that point.  The CSA and league proponents (Bob Young?) gave it a good try bringing together CFL, Canadian NASL teams and TSN(?).  However, in the end it seems like there are too many moving parts and not enough of an upside (soccer is a good fit for only 4 CFL teams, including Ottawa).

If a Canadian league is out, the next goal for the CSA would be to set targets for Canadian content for Division 2 & 3 clubs joining American leagues, at least.  I'd like to see some negotiation for increased Canadians on the roster of our MLS teams as well, but the CSA seems to have given up on this.

[MtlMario]

• Who would be involved in Montreal? I read in one of the posts it was rumored the Montreal Canadiens,but I haven't heard anything else. Any updates?

[Dub Narcotic]

The CSA may want to consider taking an equity stake in the NASL with some of that WWC money. The issue on the NASL side is the desire of the Cosmos to act like Real Madrid and the NASL's quest to get that 'Division 1' sanctioning from the USSF. If they put away that pipe dream and enter into a partnership with the CSA the NASL would get much needed stability and the CSA would get a big say in an already existing league that plays at a reasonable level. This makes the most sense to me.

[DigzTFC]

The intent of domestic league is to have more control over development and the Canadian talent pool.

The NASL sanctioning is provided by the USSF with restrictions on the % of international clubs allowed into the league (25% can be from outside the USA).  With the inclusion of Puerto Rico, that percentage is at 21% so maybe one more club international club can enter the league.

I'm not sure how further investment in the NASL would benefit the CSA.

 

[matty]

The NASL has said there is no interest in bringing more clubs to Canada so let's just stop talking about the NASL expanding in Canada.

[CDNFootballer]

The NASL has said there is no interest in bringing more clubs to Canada so let's just stop talking about the NASL expanding in Canada.

Thats incorrect - NASL said at the time (August) that there was no interest from investors BUT that the league would like to add expansion clubs to the league in Canada. If the Canadian D1A league doesn't come about Hamilton is likely the third Canadian expansion club they would add and with NASL expanding to 18-20 clubs in the next couple of years there would be a good chance for another.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Do you have a url for that, because it is not quite what I remember reading? What they have said is that they are interested in more Canadian expansion but there has been no concrete interest from investors in cities like Calgary and Hamilton. It's worth pointing out also with regard to the post prior to that, that Puerto Rico counts as domestic American content where the 75% rule is concerned, because legally Puerto Rico has to be treated as American where businesses are concerned regardless of the separate FIFA membership, and NASL domestic content rules are applied in a way that makes Canadian players count as domestic rather than imports, so there are a lot of Canadian players on the rosters of FC Edmonton and Ottawa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_Fury_FC#Current_roster

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Edmonton#Current_roster

The CSA's original plan from what I have read back when Traffic was still the dominant NASL ownership group was for a Canadian branded division running in parallel with the NASL and an end of season Can-Am Soccerbowl. The problem with that was that it put the CSA in opposition to the USSF-MLS-SUM alignment on broadcasting rights and hence on what was likely to be the losing side in the current battle for D2 sanctioning supremacy under the USSF. The Rayo OKC thing looks like sheer desparation from the NASL, and if David Beckham gets his Miami stadium deal sorted out, I'd question how long the NASL can survive in its current form, given it would throw the futures of both Miami FC and the Fort Lauderdale Strikers into serious doubt.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2015/11/13/beckham-group-one-step-closer-to-miami-soccer-stadium/

 

[matty]

Thats incorrect - NASL said at the time (August) that there was no interest from investors BUT that the league would like to add expansion clubs to the league in Canada. If the Canadian D1A league doesn't come about Hamilton is likely the third Canadian expansion club they would add and with NASL expanding to 18-20 clubs in the next couple of years there would be a good chance for another.

I'm not incorrect at all. I said there was no interest and there isn't. All the serious leads they had died because no one wants to bring them up here. That could change but as it stands now and possibly for the next several years there is no interest in expanding the NASL up here and if the Canadian league comes to be then it'll likely never happen again.

[matty]

Do you have a url for that, because it is not quite what I remember reading? What they have said is that they are interested in more Canadian expansion but there has been no concrete interest from investors in cities like Calgary and Hamilton.

Here's a link http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/08/28/no-interest-for-canadian-expansion-nasl-commish

Quote

"There are no hot leads at this time," Peterson said following Fury's scoreless draw against the New York Cosmos at TD Place on Wednesday night.

"I would like to see some people raise their hand and say they're interested. I don't know if that's a (matter) of us spending some time, maybe in some different cities, or maybe doing some more media to get the word out, but we're not seeing enough interest in my mind."

I don't know why everyone is so to point out the league wants to expand up here when there is clearly no one in Canada interested in doing so. Having an investor willing is more important than the league wanting to have a team somewhere. If the CSA have interested groups in say 6 markets already then it's safe to say those cities won't be bidding for an NASL for at least 3-5 years and if the league comes true then it's safe to say the NASL in Canada is dead.

[baulderdash77]

^^ umm.  In the NASL Canadian players only count as domestics on Canadian teams, just like the MLS.  Thats why there's only really Canadian players on Canadian teams.  The NASL is not an improvement.  

US players are domestics on Canadian teams and US teams and Canadian players are domestics on Canadian teams and internationals on US teams

[Macksam]

Bob Young will reluctantly go the NASL route if the Canadian league angle falls apart. The NASL to him is not the most ideal scenario. However, it's not the worst situation in the world imo.

[baulderdash77]

I think you're right.  There's enough interest in Hamilton as a market that if Bob let's his exclusivity run out someone else is going to take it- like the Lynx tried to do.  The market is big enough to support it, has a big soccer community and the stadium is suitable.  All the ingredients are there.

I don't think Bob is going to let someone else swoop in and take it from under him and will go NASL if the C-League falls apart.  It's unfortunate because if Hamilton goes to the NASL it's the final straw and Canada will never have it's own pro soccer league.

[CDNFootballer]

And Rollins has transcribed it for anyone who wants to read in print form.

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/index.php?/page/articles.html/_/24th-minute/csa-confirms-c-league-plans-r5488

So with an 8 team C-League apparently the ideal number of clubs according to Montagliani the regular season would likely be 20 matches - 4 teams both in East & West Divisions with playing inter division 4 times and outside each clubs division 2 times. I'd imagine they will add playoffs with an East & West Final and then a league Final, one and done for all games.

 

Adding to league matches more games will be played during the season for the V Cup.

[baulderdash77]

An 8 team league could just as easily (or even more likely) run a 28 game season- 4 times playing each team.  Throw in the V-Cup at 2-6 games and some playoffs.  Each team could very conceivably have at least 15 regular season home games plus the potential for more if a team makes a playoff run or V-Cup run.  Those games are revenue and each team will need the gate to be viable.  Even with a Toronto and Vancouver team there's no way a 20 game schedule would be enough to make the economics work.

[the Humberlands]

I'm actually curious if they're looking at setting up a team in Mississauga rather than Toronto and just having it use the Toronto name or having Sigma go pro to avoid direct competition with TFC for attendance and are looking at finding an investor not only willing to run a pro club but also expand the seating situation at Hershey Field.

Something like this would be great, and I think it could work. Not even sure if Sigma (or amalgamated academies) would want to go pro. Sigma+Oakville+ANB+etc joining forces...

I've daydreamed about somehow finding enough funds to have a team go pro in the north/east end of the GTA. 

[the Humberlands]

I really agree with local clubs putting money aside to build small stadiums. 

We always talk about how local clubs develop players from u5-u18 but then there's no where for players to go. If clubs invest in a stadium, a pro first team, etc. the game in Canada will grow!

We need a full pyramid system with our clubs. Personally, that's what I like a lot about the L1O franchises - something for a player within the club to strive towards. 

It's time to go away with the amateur youth club approach and it's time to create fully holistic soccer clubs who develop and keep players within their systems from toddlers to pros (just like pretty much every where else in the world!!!!)

From cradle to grave clubs...  Need more of these.

Well-to-do amateur clubs should be able to build 5,000 - 10,000 seat stadiums. Start smaller if you must, and build up/expand later if possible, but start.

Can't do it alone? Join forces with other amateur clubs/academies to create a pro team, using your amateur teams as feeders (ie. Sigma with Oakville Blue Devils, or Woodbridge Strikers with Vaughan and/or ANB). I strictly used L1O teams in my example, but any amateur team could be used.

A team in Mississauga may or may not be able to hold a pro team on their own. You know what might work better, a regional team ie. Peel. If that's the case don't name the team after Toronto. Represent the area. There's Brampton, Oakville, Mississauga, Burlington (BOMB's), also Milton, Georgetown, Caledon, etc.  Could create a Halton-Peel club (likely playing out of Mississauga mind you). I think association with Toronto is part of the issue for a place like Mississauga. People/supporters of franchises see themselves as an extension of the bigger city.  If a team was representing and named after the regional community I think it would garner more support.

[Saviola7]

From cradle to grave clubs...  Need more of these.

Well-to-do amateur clubs should be able to build 5,000 - 10,000 seat stadiums. Start smaller if you must, and build up/expand later if possible, but start.

Can't do it alone? Join forces with other amateur clubs/academies to create a pro team, using your amateur teams as feeders (ie. Sigma with Oakville Blue Devils, or Woodbridge Strikers with Vaughan and/or ANB). I strictly used L1O teams in my example, but any amateur team could be used.

A team in Mississauga may or may not be able to hold a pro team on their own. You know what might work better, a regional team ie. Peel. If that's the case don't name the team after Toronto. Represent the area. There's Brampton, Oakville, Mississauga, Burlington (BOMB's), also Milton, Georgetown, Caledon, etc.  Could create a Halton-Peel club (likely playing out of Mississauga mind you). I think association with Toronto is part of the issue for a place like Mississauga. People/supporters of franchises see themselves as an extension of the bigger city.  If a team was representing and named after the regional community I think it would garner more support.

I think you're still overestimating the resources/priorities of these clubs. Most of them would rather have their own indoor training facility (most of them - yes even Sigma - operate a small office and rent fields); the exception of course is Oakville. It's not as if they already have fields and haven't bothered to setup stands and change rooms.

The planning model in North America is for municipalities to own fields/parks and to let clubs use them. In Europe, clubs own/operate grounds and have established themselves there.

Finally, it should be much smaller. We're talking fifth tier or lower europe, so stadiums of 500 - 1000 tops.