Canadian Premier League

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

It is posible that the coach and the owner are not in sync but I find it hard to believe they are not talking about this.

 

When you combine it with the nothing concrete remark by John Pugh, it casts serious doubt on the credibility of the whole C-League concept. It's getting like the tail end of the CUSL saga now with the two NASL clubs playing the role of the three A League franchises.

[madmonte]

^ Isn't Miller the coach?  We are talking, I thought, about the business side of the clubs.

 

We don't really know much about their business side.  All we really have is Fath saying that unless there are 8000 people in the stands, he's basically operating at a loss.  That's not an exact quote, don't have time to dig it up before work, so take that for what it's worth.

[Free kick]

If I were to provide rationale for it, I'd simply state that it would create more DEFINITE opportunities for Canadian players.  Especially if there if 

is there really a lack of opportunity for Canadian players in this country?   

[shermanator]

^ Isn't Miller the coach?  We are talking, I thought, about the business side of the clubs.

 

We were, but that being said the club looked terrible both on and off the field in their first 2 years. Miller brought a more professional appearance from the soccer side of things.when compared to Sinkgraven / Petrone. Among other things that happened:

 

- Lodewedges resigning before the club's first NASL game

- Kowalchuk resigning before the club's first NASL game

- Spending heavily on marketing only to have fans show up to a football field with bright yellow endzones, and stands far away from the pitch

- 18 month delay in getting new stands at Clarke

- Numerous public disputes between players and club (Saiko, Lam, Monsalve). These are still around (ie. Nurse, Boakai) but they are occurring less frequently.

- Extending Sinkgraven's contract while the club was in last place, only to fire him at the end of the season due to budgetary constraints.

 

So, if that is the bar to be set, then how high is the bar, really. If I'm not mistaken, I've read that FC Edmonton doesn't want to join in part because the costs would be GREATER in the new league, even though their travel budget is astronomical compared to all other NASL clubs (according to Steven Sandor I believe, can't find the tweet though)

[Dub Narcotic]

I'm pretty excited about this Canadian league, 5000-10000 attendance at each venue, MLS+ level of play, huge t.v. deal with TSN to fund 2 million dollar player budgets, world-class academies that will put the MLS ones to shame and get Canada to the top of CONCACAF by 2019 and no evil USSF to exploit honest, hard-working Canadian fans and players with their reality-based leagues. I've even heard that they are going to clone Rachel Bonnetta and have these Bonnetta-bots flirt with every straight male fan at the games! If you are against this, you clearly hate Canada!

[madmonte]

is there really a lack of opportunity for Canadian players in this country?   

 

Now that you mention it, definitely more opportunities than there was 15 years ago, by far.

[rob.notenboom]

Now that you mention it, definitely more opportunities than there was 15 years ago, by far.

True. But still significantly fewer playing opportunities than all the countries we would have to beat to make it to the World Cup.

[Dub Narcotic]

True. But still significantly fewer playing opportunities than all the countries we would have to beat to make it to the World Cup.

 

In what way? 24 MLS teams, 13 NASL teams and over 30 USL teams next year plus a huge number of NPSL clubs and a huge academy league where Canadians have either full or privileged access to roster spots. Canadian players have better access to clubs than any country in CONCACAF except for Mexico and the U.S. In addition, most of this club infrastructure was paid for by another country. Canada has really made out like bandits from aligning with the American system.

[rob.notenboom]

In what way? 24 MLS teams, 13 NASL teams and over 30 USL teams next year plus a huge number of NPSL clubs and a huge academy league where Canadians have either full or privileged access to roster spots. Canadian players have better access to clubs than any country in CONCACAF except for Mexico and the U.S. In addition, most of this club infrastructure was paid for by another country. Canada has really made out like bandits from aligning with the American system.

Canadians do not have full or privileged access to roster spots on the vast majority of the professional teams you've listed above either through the rules of the actual league or through the philosophy of said league (Americans are favoured over other nationalities).

Costa Rica, Honduras, and Panama all have multiple divisions of pro football and obviously Mexico and the U.S. have superior access to leagues than Canada.

[Soccerpro]

Now that you mention it, definitely more opportunities than there was 15 years ago, by far.

I agree with this.

While I really want to see a domestic pro league, I can't ignore to the fact that there are lots of div 1-3 clubs in USA and Canada to play in now. Sometimes we need to acknowledge that if we developed better players, they could at least find a spot on one of the many USL PRO teams in North America.

[rob.notenboom]

I agree with this.

While I really want to see a domestic pro league, I can't ignore to the fact that there are lots of div 1-3 clubs in USA and Canada to play in now. Sometimes we need to acknowledge that if we developed better players, they could at least find a spot on one of the many USL PRO teams in North America.

Good point.

Just to clarify what I've mentioned above, I'm not in the camp that says MLS/NASL haven't done anything for the development of Canadian players. It's very likely that the CMNT's domestic content will only continue to grow.

But personally I would like to see both MLS/NASL plus our own deal. Is there space for that many teams in Canada and would they succeed? There are obvious and substantial barriers but there are no guarantees either way. I'm more inclined to support a new league (if it actually happens) regardless of the difficulties.

[shermanator]

Good point.

Just to clarify what I've mentioned above, I'm not in the camp that says MLS/NASL haven't done anything for the development of Canadian players. It's very likely that the CMNT's domestic content will only continue to grow.

But personally I would like to see both MLS/NASL plus our own deal. Is there space for that many teams in Canada and would they succeed? There are obvious and substantial barriers but there are no guarantees either way. I'm more inclined to support a new league (if it actually happens) regardless of the difficulties.

 

Sums up my feelings on the situation quite nicely. The fact is, the current setup we have is seeing us get overtaken by many Central American and Carribean countries. IMO Haiti and Curacao are not far behind us in terms of the quality of talent they can put out, and they are true minnows.

[Macksam]

In what way? 24 MLS teams, 13 NASL teams and over 30 USL teams next year plus a huge number of NPSL clubs and a huge academy league where Canadians have either full or privileged access to roster spots. Canadian players have better access to clubs than any country in CONCACAF except for Mexico and the U.S. In addition, most of this club infrastructure was paid for by another country. Canada has really made out like bandits from aligning with the American system.

Please sober up before posting next time.

[fil]

I'm pretty excited about this Canadian league, 5000-10000 attendance at each venue, MLS+ level of play, huge t.v. deal with TSN to fund 2 million dollar player budgets, world-class academies that will put the MLS ones to shame and get Canada to the top of CONCACAF by 2019 and no evil USSF to exploit honest, hard-working Canadian fans and players with their reality-based leagues. I've even heard that they are going to clone Rachel Bonnetta and have these Bonnetta-bots flirt with every straight male fan at the games! If you are against this, you clearly hate Canada!

MLS already cloned her http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-9DidD5hXgo/maxresdefault.jpg

and she has been Americanized https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xap1/t51.288515/e15/11142387_691731594270360_1031706281_n.jpg

Don Garber must be stopped!

[Jason]

True. But still significantly fewer playing opportunities than all the countries we would have to beat to make it to the World Cup.

When it comes down to it, the more opportunities for players, the better.  You look at a Mo Babouli - he's a guy who has been identified by the new teams.  A decade ago maybe he'd get a tryout with the Lynx.  Perhaps he could parlay that into a career, but that would likely be his only opportunity.  Maybe he could dominate in the CSL and work his way up, but that's a real stretch.  Not many guys did that back then.  I can even look further back to Pat Onstad.  He spent time with the Whitecaps and Impact but was buried in the depth chart at both places.  The Lynx joined the A-League, he became the starter the first year, and his career went from there.  

 

Those examples are very infrequent.  With more Canadian teams, we would not find dozens of diamonds in the rough, but we'd find a few - definitely more than currently.  And that would provide the much needed depth for Canada.

 

Jason

[Jason]

Seems to me that this (from this article ) puts an end to the idea of Ottawa in this new league:

 

 

It is posible that the coach and the owner are not in sync but I find it hard to believe they are not talking about this.

 

I think we have to keep in mind the sensitive position the Fury are in right now.  They don't want to fuel any rumours that they want out.  Why would they publicly do that now with the success they're having?  I suspect the owner and coach are in sync.  Sometimes you need to say the right things, but meanwhile, behind the scenes different things are playing out.  If this C-League exists, I'm sure the NASL knows more about it than we do, and is probably looking at it as a threat.  Having the Fury make a public show of support for NASL probably is good for relations with the league.  Remember if this really is a 2017 start, they need to play somewhere in 2016.

 

Also, when I read it, Dos Santos doesn't toss the idea out of hand.  He says the league would need to be professional.  Certainly the model suggested would qualify for that status.

 

One point to add: the more success the Fury have, the less likely they'll want to jump to a new league.  Why mess with the formula to join a fledgling league?  Success on and off the field in pro soccer is so rare, is it really smart business to change?  How this plays out will be interesting.

 

Jason

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The remarks he made were quite disparaging, probably because of his CSL coaching experiences with the Trois Rivieres Attak prior to moving up to the A League with the Impact. That league claimed to be a national pro league, but didn't even come close to doing the job properly, because most of the franchises were effectively amateur operations. The key problem with pro soccer in Canada that he identifies in his answer is that soccer association people tend to talk the talk but don't walk the walk. If you look at recent development in Ontario with L1O and OPDL, for example, neither have lived up to the rhetoric about what they were supposed to be and were supposed to do.

[Dub Narcotic]

Great point. L10 and PLSQ are fine for what they are but they are not even PDL level, let alone the USL competitor that they were supposed to be. It is really hard to sustain a lower-division club in any sport, never mind soccer.

[L.T.]

The remarks he made were quite disparaging, probably because of his CSL coaching experiences with the Trois Rivieres Attak prior to moving up to the A League with the Impact. That league claimed to be a national pro league, but didn't even come close to doing the job properly, because most of the franchises were effectively amateur operations. The key problem with pro soccer in Canada that he identifies in his answer is that soccer association people tend to talk the talk but don't walk the walk. If you look at recent development in Ontario with L1O and OPDL, for example, neither have lived up to the rhetoric about what they were supposed to be and were supposed to do.

 

What rhetoric was that? (actual quotes preferred)

[-Hammer-]

I still firmly believe the route to take is put more teams in NASL and then jump ship to a new league. However, the tricky part is determining is the NASL going to remain viable?

[CDNFootballer]

I still firmly believe the route to take is put more teams in NASL and then jump ship to a new league. However, the tricky part is determining is the NASL going to remain viable?

 

I think that once teams are established in another league they are less likely to jump.

 

Now is the best time to start a D1A Canadian League when markets are still available and the game is increasing in popularity in North America. If it can't be done in the next couple of years the ship will likely have sailed on us having our own national league.

[Vic]

Until we have our own leagues we are nowhere.

[-Hammer-]

Until we have our own leagues we are nowhere.

 

I'm inclined to agree, but it's not enough to merely have a league that the CSA controls, it has to be a league where a high level of soccer is played and a good chunk of players who can qualify for the national team are also playing in it. A league filled exclusively with the Canadian talent pool isn't going to cut it, we need Canadians playing with players who are at or approaching the level of play of the national team's rivals, IE: The US, Mexico, Costa Rica, Jamaica, Panama and Venezuela.

[Vic]

Agreed, one step at a time.  When you have no league the only goal is putting one together.  There's plenty of time down the road to engineer change and make it right.  

[xcalibre]

Yeah, and xcalibre's statement was full of rationale....

 

Are you serious?  Well, for one, the US league structure actually exists.  And has sponsors.  The CSA has been talking about putting together a pro league for years with no progress.

 

Deferring to the CSA has actually created less development opportunities for young players.  We've heard that they've blocked USL applications in favour of a posited pro league - that means we're losing actual roster spots in places like Hamilton and Victoria that aren't being filled.  It's not much good to a player in his late teens to lose a couple years of a pro environment because the CSA is talking about finally putting a D1 together (that Ottawa and Edmonton aren't even convinced about).

 

I get it - it would be cool to have our own D1.  That's not a good enough reason.

 

Wales and New Zealand have been two of the biggest success stories in recent years in int'l footy - good thing their fans aren't blindly following a useless FA's vision of a national D1 that ignores geographic, economic, and quality-of-play considerations.