Toronto @ Montreal V's Cup Final 2nd Leg

[narduch]

 Nelsen's on thin ice.

 

I've said this before, Nelsen isn't getting fired over the Voyaqeurs Cup results. He will be around as long as they are in the playoff hunt, which they are. I'm not really happy with the job he is doing. I really hate the way he has TFC playing. I believe TFC has the talent to play way less ugly than it does.

 

It looks like Montreal may finally be turning their season around. Could be really interesting in the East.

[Redcoatsforever]

I think this is called KookAid:

 

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2014/06/nelsen-highlights-growth-young-side

Jesus, Nelsen... You know what kind of growth would be really nice to see? Growing into a Champions League spot.

[Gian-Luca]

I've said this before, Nelsen isn't getting fired over the Voyaqeurs Cup results. He will be around as long as they are in the playoff hunt, which they are.

Agreed. And I thought he made a mistake last night with that starting midfield. If Osorio & De Rosario couldn't go 90 minutes it would have made more sense to play them at the start, get the goal that was needed to take the lead, and then sub them out for the defensive reinforcements like Hall to protect the lead. Instead, even though we were effectively a goal down to start the game, we did the opposite. They were never going to generated much offense with Hall & Lovitz in the starting midfield 4 and they didn't. The team Toronto fielded at the tail end of the game was much stronger than the one that played for the majority of the game, but by then it was too late (Osorio's unlucky miss notwithstanding). As for Bekker, I've noticed that he always seems to look a lot better when the midfielders around him are much better, but he's not ready yet to properly lead the team from the midfield with the likes of Hall & Lovitz as his supporting cast. A shame as it was a very winnable  game once again, just like last week.

[Trillium]

TFC won the Trillium cup this year... all the naysayers have to recognize the second Trillium Cup win for Toronto was a big step forward, no one in MLSE management will fire Nelson when that cup shines brightly in the corporate showcase cabinet.

 

 

 

( test post for new software product http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27711109 )

[BrennanFan]

Agreed. And I thought he made a mistake last night with that starting midfield. If Osorio & De Rosario couldn't go 90 minutes it would have made more sense to play them at the start, get the goal that was needed to take the lead, and then sub them out for the defensive reinforcements like Hall to protect the lead. Instead, even though we were effectively a goal down to start the game, we did the opposite. They were never going to generated much offense with Hall & Lovitz in the starting midfield 4 and they didn't. The team Toronto fielded at the tail end of the game was much stronger than the one that played for the majority of the game, but by then it was too late (Osorio's unlucky miss notwithstanding). As for Bekker, I've noticed that he always seems to look a lot better when the midfielders around him are much better, but he's not ready yet to properly lead the team from the midfield with the likes of Hall & Lovitz as his supporting cast. A shame as it was a very winnable  game once again, just like last week.

 

This is exactly right, but I don't think Nelsen is stupid enough not to realize the obvious errors in his lineup.  By looking at both of his line ups in the final, he clearly did not want to do everything possible to win this tournament.  Which makes me sick.

[Redcoatsforever]

This is exactly right, but I don't think Nelsen is stupid enough not to realize the obvious errors in his lineup.  By looking at both of his line ups in the final, he clearly did not want to do everything possible to win this tournament.  Which makes me sick.

No, he didn't want Champions League, that would add too much to the schedule and we might have to field a b-lineup in a few league matches.

 

I think people are being a bit hard on our midfield though, I thought Hall's strategy of "Bekker passed it to me, better lay it off to Bekker without hesitation" really helped us maintain a flowing game with lots of forward momentum.

[Gian-Luca]

 

 

I think people are being a bit hard on our midfield though, I thought Hall's strategy of "Bekker passed it to me, better lay it off to Bekker without hesitation" really helped us maintain a flowing game with lots of forward momentum.

Lol. I think TFC broke the record for most pass backs to the keeper in one half while effectively down a goal in a Cup final. It was painful to watch.

[tmcmurph]

Congrats to Montreal. Good luck in the CCL.

 

Just wait until next year .... again .... still  - VWFC

[Sam]

Thought Henry played really well for Toronto, but other than that it was a rough outing for them. Even the first fifteen-twenty minutes when Toronto had all the ball Montreal looked pretty comfortable keeping them out. As for no drama, even though it wasn't a "winner" per say that injury time Felipe "clincher" at home was pretty exciting. 

 

Probably not the greatest ever edition of the competition but as Jonovision said we got some drama from the poor refereeing. Also glad to see the Montreal players reactions last night, whatever the management thinks this tournament is still obviously important to them. 

[Grizzly]

My impression from the 2 games is Toronto really plays direct and tries to use their speed to beat opponents. Once they tire out they are ineffective so they are very dependent on scoring during their initial burst. In game 1 we saw that TFC was the better team in the first half but Montreal was better in the 2nd. Last night TFC was very strong for the first 20 minutes but you can only sustain that pressure for so long before tiring yourself out and Montreal was the better team for the rest of the match. For much of the match it looked like Montreal was the team that needed a goal not TFC. I have to agree with many that Nelson is a poor coach, a New Zealand version of Miller. Isn't the idea of getting a foreign coach to get someone better than the typical coaches available domestically? As for the players, Defoe is good but not really a game changer on his own. I agree with others that Henry had a good game, he has a lot of potential if he can just cut out the boneheaded plays. I thought Moore, Rey and Bendik also played well but was not too impressed by any of the other starters. Bekker is better than last year but really needs a lot of playing time if he will amount to anything. A classic example of someone who did not get the level of training and playing in the university system to develop the way he should have.

 

From our side we have played quite well the last games and it is great to win the VCup but it doesn't remove the poor start we have had to the season. That management believed we could achieve something with the lineup we started the season with is astonishing. Fortunately we have made a couple of good trades and it looks like the team is starting to gel. We still don't have a lot of depth and are lacking a few quality players. Not sure whether it is the arrival of Issey and the rumoured arrival of Piatti as competition that is sparking Romero but he has been on fire the last 3 games after a year and a half of not looking like he was MLS level. Even Bernardello who I am usually very critical of had a strong game last night. 

[JamboAl]

BTW, Grizz, what was the symbolism of the upside down Ultras sign at your end?  Did it have to do with the poor start as well? 

[Grizzly]

BTW, Grizz, what was the symbolism of the upside down Ultras sign at your end?  Did it have to do with the poor start as well? 

 

The poor start and the lack of confidence we have in the abilities of Nick De Santis. We want Joey to hire competent people as managers not his friends.

[roue]

A hard fought series , good luck to the Impact , will be following the CCL with great interest and looking forward to Aug long weekend for TFC/Impact !

[BuzzAndSting]

Eh?

What? 14,000 for a cup match in Canada doesn't work for you? Empty seats or no I'm good with that. Especially when those who are in attendance seem emotionally attached to the outcome.

Was it 14K announced? No way... I'd say 10K at most.

[munseahawk]

I know that in years past there has been a V as part of the trophy presentation. I didn't see that this year, just 2 folks from Amway and someone from the CSA. What was the reason for that?

[Blackdude]

I know that in years past there has been a V as part of the trophy presentation. I didn't see that this year, just 2 folks from Amway and someone from the CSA. What was the reason for that?

Blame Sportsnet for not showing that. I did present the trophy. You can hear it on the feed.

[rob.notenboom]

I think Fred brought the trophy in ... Or at least that's what I heard.

[Grizzly]

Blame Sportsnet for not showing that. I did present the trophy. You can hear it on the feed.

 

Actually you were supposed to do the presentation but in the end you did not present the trophy. You only brought it onto the field 5 or 10 minutes before the actual presentation which was made by the guy from Amway. To be quite honest, you did not even participate in the presentation at all. Bringing the trophy on to the field and placing it on a table a long time before the presentation is made is not being part of the presentation. That could have been done by a stadium employee as it is completely insignificant. And Sportsnet is certainly not to blame for not filming something so meaningless and insignificant. Both myself and Jamie (socceronly) were angry about how the presentation was made.

 

None of that is your fault but rather the fault of the CSA and whoever else was involved in organizing the presentation ceremony. A few years ago we had a presentation ceremony that we were not happy with and complained to the CSA and thought things were resolved. We also thought it would be nice for different people to present the Cup since myself and Daniel have done it in the past. As you are probably the most active Montreal Voyageur on the forum we asked if you were interested. Unfortunately it seems like we have to be on the ass of the CSA every year if we want to make the presentation go properly. Otherwise they just shove the Voyageur to the side and give it to their sponsor.

 

We will contact the CSA about this but I have to speak with Jamie first about it. In my opinion, if they want to use our trophy it needs to be presented by a Voyageur. And being presented by a Voyageur means that it is a Voyageur who hands it to the winning team.

[Lord Bob]

Actually you were supposed to do the presentation but in the end you did not present the trophy. You only brought it onto the field 5 or 10 minutes before the actual presentation which was made by the guy from Amway. To be quite honest, you did not even participate in the presentation at all. Bringing the trophy on to the field and placing it on a table a long time before the presentation is made is not being part of the presentation. That could have been done by a stadium employee as it is completely insignificant. And Sportsnet is certainly not to blame for not filming something so meaningless and insignificant.

For context, I didn't see the presentation this year but that sounds a lot like how it went last year. Except it was televised, of course.

[Grizzly]

For context, I didn't see the presentation this year but that sounds a lot like how it went last year. Except it was televised, of course.

 

It is possible that the same thing has occurred in other years as well but it does not make it in any way acceptable. If we are to participate in the ceremony then a Voyageur should be handing the trophy to the winning team. If the Voyageur is just going to bring it on the field and put it on a table and then watch it being presented by someone else I think that is embarrassing and we should not participate in that and neither should our trophy.

 

Incidentally, if all you did last year was place the trophy on the table why did MacLean's write an article and make such a big deal about presenting the trophy to the other team? It would suck presenting the trophy to the visiting team for any Voyageur but if you only put it on the table I think the article way over dramatized the event. 

[Lord Bob]

Incidentally, if all you did last year was place the trophy on the table why did MacLean's write an article and make such a big deal about presenting the trophy to the other team? It would suck presenting the trophy to the visiting team for any Voyageur but if you only put it on the table I think the article way over dramatized the event. 

Couldn't tell you.

[Sport Shaman]

Actually you were supposed to do the presentation but in the end you did not present the trophy. You only brought it onto the field 5 or 10 minutes before the actual presentation which was made by the guy from Amway. To be quite honest, you did not even participate in the presentation at all. Bringing the trophy on to the field and placing it on a table a long time before the presentation is made is not being part of the presentation. That could have been done by a stadium employee as it is completely insignificant. And Sportsnet is certainly not to blame for not filming something so meaningless and insignificant. Both myself and Jamie (socceronly) were angry about how the presentation was made.

 

I was pretty tired that day and not really paying 100% attention to who presented the Voyageurs Cup but I thought that I heard something about the president of the Quebec Soccer Federation, Martial Prud'homme, either being the presenter of the cup or being one of the people involved. Not sure here but that was my recollection.

 

If I remembered that correctly, and I do mean "IF" ; then I am not sure which pisses me off more. Having  someone from the "American Way" corporation present the Voyageurs Cup at the Canadian Championship, or having the president of the provincial federation responsible for the turban banning debacle have anything to do with our trophy. Either way, WTF will it take for the CSA to respect what the trophy means and stop boot licking this sponsor or shoving aside a Voyageur in favour of the president of the provincial pariah.

[Grizzly]

I assumed it was the Amway guy who presented it but I have looked at a picture of Prud'homme and indeed you are right and it is him. This pisses me off even more because at least the sponsor provides a lot of money to the competition and has some right to expect something for it. But it is really wrong that the Voyageur got shoved out of the way for a CSA board member and President of the Quebec Soccer Federation. At least it will be a lot harder for them to justify this.

 

It is our trophy and we can present it however we want. If the CSA wants to use it they need to do the presentation in a way that honours the origin of the trophy as a fan supplied trophy. Additionally the Canadian championship and Voyageurs Cup are both taken very seriously by all of the supporters groups in the country and even if the stadium is not full for games the supporters sections are more full and more lively than for league games which gives the tournament a lot of credibiliity. It is not in the best interests of the tournament for the CSA to alienate the supporters groups.

 

Now it is possible there is nothing malicious in what the CSA is doing and it is merely bureaucrats doing things the easy way. It is up to us to complain about this and see what their response is. Last year during the presentation I was in a bar celebrating and probably did not pay too much attention to how the presentation was carried out so I was not aware that it was similar to this year. In 2008 I presented it myself and I was the one who handed it to the players. I thought that Fred (Blackdude) was going to be presenting it similarly to the players this year and was really angry to see him standing on the sideline for the whole presentation. We have to ensure that a tradition is established in which every year a Voyageur hands the trophy to the winning team and can not be pushed aside in favour of sponsors or CSA officials.

[Trillium]

I assumed it was the Amway guy who presented it but I have looked at a picture of Prud'homme and indeed you are right and it is him. This pisses me off even more because at least the sponsor provides a lot of money to the competition and has some right to expect something for it. But it is really wrong that the Voyageur got shoved out of the way for a CSA board member and President of the Quebec Soccer Federation. At least it will be a lot harder for them to justify this.

 

It is our trophy and we can present it however we want. If the CSA wants to use it they need to do the presentation in a way that honours the origin of the trophy as a fan supplied trophy. Additionally the Canadian championship and Voyageurs Cup are both taken very seriously by all of the supporters groups in the country and even if the stadium is not full for games the supporters sections are more full and more lively than for league games which gives the tournament a lot of credibiliity. It is not in the best interests of the tournament for the CSA to alienate the supporters groups.

 

Now it is possible there is nothing malicious in what the CSA is doing and it is merely bureaucrats doing things the easy way. It is up to us to complain about this and see what their response is. Last year during the presentation I was in a bar celebrating and probably did not pay too much attention to how the presentation was carried out so I was not aware that it was similar to this year. In 2008 I presented it myself and I was the one who handed it to the players. I thought that Fred (Blackdude) was going to be presenting it similarly to the players this year and was really angry to see him standing on the sideline for the whole presentation. We have to ensure that a tradition is established in which every year a Voyageur hands the trophy to the winning team and can not be pushed aside in favour of sponsors or CSA officials.

Again .. I say ..have said it before once the Voyageurs gave the trophy the CSA ..without a written codicil on it's use and a set of trustee's formed from the Voyageurs you have lost control of the trophy.

 

If you want to get control of the trophy back it can happen, you have to do that is a structured way.

[TFC07]

CSA once again show lack of backbone while disrespecting soccer fans in this county.  I can't believe Quebec soccer president was presenting medals which is a big joke given how QSF have been slowing process and embarrassing Canadian soccer recently.