Ukraine - Canada Post-Match Thread [R]

[villus]

Little off topic, but if ever there was a time to go after Hoilett and JDG2 hard this is it. We've had 2 good results, are showing good depth and a lot of positives seem to be swirling around the MNT. In the next 4-5 months if JDG2 is on form and not getting the call from the dutch with euro qualifying taking place and with us showing a lot of promise it would seem like the ideal time to make the switch.

[nolando]

Little off topic, but if ever there was a time to go after Hoilett and JDG2 hard this is it. We've had 2 good results, are showing good depth and a lot of positives seem to be swirling around the MNT. In the next 4-5 months if JDG2 is on form and not getting the call from the dutch with euro qualifying taking place and with us showing a lot of promise it would seem like the ideal time to make the switch.

Ironically, if they were on board they might take the places (or at least the positions) of two of the better performers for this match in Jackson and Hutch. Pity we don't have a world-class RB, a defensive midfielder and a top flight keeper waiting in the wings to choose Canada, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at an abundance of attacking mids either.

[SthMelbRed]

^I'm not suggesting that I wouldn't love to have either of those two players on board immediately, but I'm not sure that they'd automatically take Jackson and Hutchinson's spots. They'd have to come into camp and earn their spots by performing better than the incumbents in their positions. On paper, based on current clubs, they are JDG2 and Junior are ahead of Hutch and Jackson, but you can argue that the gap in club stature is minimal and the gap in performance is non-existant. Hutch is a starter on one of the big two Dutch clubs (albeit out of position) compared to Jono at one of the smaller clubs in a better Spanish league. Jackson is playing and producing at one of the top Championship sides while Hoillet can't get a minute at a lower- to mid-table Premier League club. Still, I say get both Jono and Junior into camp and let the dogfight for places begin. When we have two capable players for each of the eleven spots on the ground, we'll start to eat teams like Honduras and Costa Rica for lunch in the games that matter.

[Gordon]

Ironically, if they were on board they might take the places (or at least the positions) of two of the better performers for this match in Jackson and Hutch. Pity we don't have a world-class RB, a defensive midfielder and a top flight keeper waiting in the wings to choose Canada, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at an abundance of attacking mids either.

I think if PSV is willing to trust Hutch at Rightback, Canada could too.

[JoshieScores]

Ironically, if they were on board they might take the places (or at least the positions) of two of the better performers for this match in Jackson and Hutch. Pity we don't have a world-class RB, a defensive midfielder and a top flight keeper waiting in the wings to choose Canada, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at an abundance of attacking mids either.

I think JDG2's ability on the dead ball situations and creativity will undoubtly take over starting 10 position (if he chooses Canada) in the 4-5-1 formation which Hart favours. Although Canada played well against Ukraine in 4-2-3-1 where Bernier and JBB played a holding role, going with 4-5-1 will drop Hutch to right side of the mid or even RB as we've discussed.

This would be my potential starting Gold Cup 11 XI.

Lars

Klukowski-Jakovic-McKenna-Hutch

Simpson-JDG-JDG2-De Jong-Jackson

Hoilett

Dream on I guess...

[Bertuzzi44]

I think if PSV is willing to trust Hutch at Rightback, Canada could too.

My thoughts too. I'm sure if JDG2 came on board, Hart would not have a problem finding a spot on the field for JDG, Hutchinson, and JDG2!

[Keegan]

I think JDG2's ability on the dead ball situations and creativity will undoubtly take over starting 10 position (if he chooses Canada) in the 4-5-1 formation which Hart favours. Although Canada played well against Ukraine in 4-2-3-1 where Bernier and JBB played a holding role, going with 4-5-1 will drop Hutch to right side of the mid or even RB as we've discussed.

This would be my potential starting Gold Cup 11 XI.

Lars

Klukowski-Jakovic-McKenna-Hutch

Simpson-JDG-JDG2-De Jong-Jackson

Hoilett

Dream on I guess...

I think Hoilett would be more of a super sub at this point... he isn't getting minutes for blackburn and we have some strikers lighting it up

[villus]

I think our lineup could look like this

Friend(Gerba/Occean/Hoillett)

Simpson -------------Jackson(hoillett)

Jdg2----- Hutch(Johnson)

JDG

Klukowski Mckenna Jackovic Peeters

Lars

[nolando]

Re-watched the game and thought I'd post more in depth analysis inlcluding player ratings:

Hirschfeld 6 Was OK but made a couple glaring mistakes including giving up a corner for no reason (widely reported as his great first half save) and then later kicking a very poor clearance which helped start off a play that ended up being a Ukraine goal

De Jong 8 Strong match. He’s young and strong for his size. Takes a lot of key corners, throws well, is feisty and really gets into the attack.

Jakovic 5 Poor match from Dejan, I thought. Really scrambly play for most of the evening. Made a couple hi-profile blocks but only after he gave up a scoring chance each time singehandedly. Did a lot of jumping and leg-flailing at Ukraine attacks which makes me reconsider him as an automatic starter.

Straith 6 Young and gaining experience but did a lot of ball watching (usually as they sailed over his head), far too much for a guy that should be destroying attacks a la McKenna. Needs to deputize a bit longer – here’s to hoping he can start the rest of the season at club level.

Stalteri 5 Gives the impression of good defending due to his work rate but, like Jakovic tonight, he is often having to run so much because he isn’t in the right place at the right time. Many errand passes, forward balls. Made me regret not having Pozniak or Peters around.

Simpson 9 Electric and really showed strength like I hadn’t seen before. Drew fouls and should be a model for future attacking players in the sense that he played within the rules (well, except for that yellow) but also wasn’t afraid to go in physical or go down when fouled- intelligent tactical football. Dead tired after the hour which is slightly concerning.

Bernier 7 Dependable. Had the odd flub but also showed some grace with his short passes and showed good understanding with the attacking players. Just when I am ready to discard him he shows some real use again.

Beaulieu-Bourgault 6 Showed some promise but largely out of his element in this one. Lots of ball watching instead of ball-winning.

Hutchinson 9 What more can you say? If he buried his second big chance (in the 2nd frame) he would have been a ten in my book. THIS is the Hutch I have been asking to see for years. Can he do it with DDR or JDG around, I wonder, or does he only flourish in their absence? He looked like captain material to me tonight, leading by example all over the pitch, backtracking to defend, attacking in front of strikers when given the opportunity, yakking at the ref. Wonderful. Where have you been and will we see you again anytime soon?

Jackson 7 Was really brilliant at times, especially taking on defenders 1vs1 but also squandered a couple of key chances that could have helped put Ukraine away.

Occean 7 Passed his audition. Proved that a big target man in a red jersey could indeed also track back and help create chances for himself. Has a variety of skills including some speed and some flair. Hope to see him again. Wish he was breaking through a cycle ago and not a couple weeks shy of 29.

Ledgerwood 6 Looks too small and too weak to be effective as a defensive mid, and plays the part too.

Haber 6 Outside of the one great run did a passable impression of Friend. Is young and might be a great sub at some point but not showing much on this night.

Nakajima-Farran 6 Hustled around a lot in his limited time but with not enough skills to really edge himself any further up the depth chart.

[JOGAKANATA]

I think our lineup could look like this

Friend(Gerba/Occean/Hoillett)

Simpson -------------Jackson(hoillett)

Jdg2----- Hutch(Johnson)

JDG

Klukowski Mckenna Jackovic Peeters

Lars

This would be very good for the road to qualifying, all these men potentially have chance at making the world cup. If they can come together.

[Soju]

Random thoughts on very enjoyable match...Throw Hoilett up top in the Hart formation if he joins us. We don't need a tall player there anyway especially if Kluko's not playing (Canada has two goals from open-play crosses since 2004 IIRC). Watching that game again you could see if Occean were more effective 1v1, he could have had several shooting chances, but he's not quite gifted enough or quick enough to create for himself. Likewise for Gerba and running at players just isn't Friend's game. If we are going to keep sitting back and hitting on the counter we'd benefit more from a Radzinski/Hoilett/Jackson type greyhound than a slow moving hold-up man.

That line of Simpson-Hutchinson-Jackson should start the next couple games and not be tampered with imo. All three looked like world beaters but could use a bit more time together for familiarity. If they continue to perform like last match, Concacrap beware.

As an aside, I've been among those tough on Bernier in the past but we really seem to improve when he's on the pitch. He protects the ball well and his distribution seems a lot better now.

[loyola]

Random thoughts on very enjoyable match...Throw Hoilett up top in the Hart formation if he joins us. We don't need a tall player there anyway especially if Kluko's not playing (Canada has two goals from open-play crosses since 2004 IIRC). Watching that game again you could see if Occean were more effective 1v1, he could have had several shooting chances, but he's not quite gifted enough or quick enough to create for himself. Likewise for Gerba and running at players just isn't Friend's game. If we are going to keep sitting back and hitting on the counter we'd benefit more from a Radzinski/Hoilett/Jackson type greyhound than a slow moving hold-up man.

I disagree with the notion that we would be better with a small forward up front. Everytime Hart or Mitchell have tried that in the past it didn’t worked out well (ie: Hume against Guadeloupe and Hume against SA). I think if we are going to play the 4-3-3 (which is really a 4-5-1) we need a big striker up front who can be used as a target man and also being at the right end of our crosses.

[gator]

I don't think we should be bailing on Rob Friend just yet! He plays at arguably as high a level as any of our strikers and at the club level produces! He needs some service and then he will produce IMHO! The matches where he has struggled, the whole side hasn't looked that good! Hart is doing the right thing by keeping an open mind and selecting different players at this point! Next year he'll have to make some tough decisions as WCQ approaches, it's great to have a bit of depth in all positions!

[jpg75]

I disagree with the notion that we would be better with a small forward up front. Everytime Hart or Mitchell have tried that in the past it didn’t worked out well (ie: Hume against Guadeloupe and Hume against SA).

Maybe there's a common link in those two games? Starts with H and rhymes with broom...a fast, skilled technical player like Hoilett may thrive in that role where another small forward with an anvil-like touch might not.

[JamboAl]

I don't think we should be bailing on Rob Friend just yet! He plays at arguably as high a level as any of our strikers and at the club level produces! He needs some service and then he will produce IMHO! The matches where he has struggled, the whole side hasn't looked that good! Hart is doing the right thing by keeping an open mind and selecting different players at this point! Next year he'll have to make some tough decisions as WCQ approaches, it's great to have a bit of depth in all positions!

I'm totally with you, gator. We have a player in excellent form in a very competitive league. As a country with not a lot of depth, to discard anyone would be shortsighted. I mean Diesel still gets called up and he doesn't play for his club side at all.

[loyola]

While I agree with Gator I'm not sure I've seen posts suggesting we should be bailing on Rob.

As for the idea of havinga small forward up front, I doubt it would work that well as I don't think they are effective alone in the middle. I think their speed would be best used on the wings in a 4-5-1 or up front in a 4-4-2.

[powerof11]

Hi. Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving.

Max Bell has an article up and Match Day video...

Kiev collapse speaks to lack of confidence:

http://www.rednationonline.ca/Kiev_collapse_speaks_to_lack_of_confidence_october_12_10_article.shtml

Also, he will be appearing on The Score's: The Footy Show to talk about the Canada v. Ukraine match.

The show runs from 12-1PM, but he is scheduled to be on just after 12:30PM.

Here is a link if you get the chance to listen in, http://radio.thescore.com/

[closetboostie]

Finally getting a chance to post on this game, what a memorable day. I only saw the first half, had to go out, and it was a spotty feed so my thoughts are more general. What a first half they played! Excellent ball movement, able to break pressure and force Ukraine to back off, which I think was the key to the good result. I don't care what team you are, if you have to continuously soak up pressure away against a strong team, you will concede goals. Our players were constantly making themselves available, there was always an easy option, and the passes were well executed to give themselves time and space.

The other thing that was encouraging, through their movement off the ball and strong execution, Canada was able to break Ukraine down consistently off the counter, and even through a few normal buildups, which we always seem to struggle with. Didn't see the second half, and after the collapse, I don't care to watch it, but 2-2 away to Ukraine is such a positive, and nice to see many of our players growing their game for Canada, sure makes a guy optimistic about the competition for spots.

[villus]

I'm kind of torn really, on paper of course this is a good result. Obviously though we lost a 2-0 goal lead, while it is not the end of the world we still don't want to get the attitude of thinking this was more than what it really was. We lost a 2-0 goal lead, to a fairly good team on their home ground. Sure I would'nt come down too hard on anyone but at the same time I would hope that the players, coaching staff and fans have a sick feeling in our stomachs of a missed opportunity. In order for us to make real strides, our attitude has to be to take any opportunity or advantage that we find and seize it. How we become better is systematically finding errors or "leaks" and fixing them. Making mistakes is'nt bad, not learning from them and glossing them over for other positives and accepting them leads to no one benefiting or improving. Now I know as Canadian fans we need to take all the positives we get, but that should'nt be at the expense of working as hard as possible to learn from our missed opportunities.

[JOGAKANATA]

To the world we should accept it as good result.

But in-House , we should really reflect on why we gave away the lead.

Not taking away from the positives!. What this team has showed us is we are at a realistic level to compete, Especially in our region.

So now what that says is we must improve our football, what ever training methods that got the team to this level must be increased to make them stronger and faster as the UNIT.

[Lord Bob]

While I agree with Gator I'm not sure I've seen posts suggesting we should be bailing on Rob.

Here's one. Bail on Rob.

[loyola]

Good article about Marcus Haber first cap:

http://www.perthshireadvertiser.co.uk/perthshire-sport/2010/10/15/haber-bags-canadian-cap-73103-27472966/