Ukraine - Canada Post-Match Thread [R]

[Michael Crampton]

Atiba was 'Player of the Day' in the following FIFA article:

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/news/newsid=1315382.html#argentina+fall+japan+canada+hold+ukraine

Player of the day

Atiba Hutchinson (Canada)

On a day when Cavani and Suarez stood out for Uruguay, the Canadian attacker took the honours by marking his 50th appearance for his country with a goal on their visit to Ukraine. The PSV Eindhoven man made his international debut in 2003 and is the 20th Canada player to reach a half century of caps.

Crazy!

Sad that it'll never get noticed over here!

[VIS]

Originally Posted by bettermirror

"Excellent. both teams will feel aggrieved at drawing. UKR because they came at us. CAN for having a 2-0 lead. UKR are full value for draw though. I only saw second half and we were on back foot. Imagine if Hutch had made it 3-0 though!

Hutch is full deserving of MoM award. I was impressed with JBB though before he was dropped. Simpson looked tired. Not really eager to run at the right back. Tactical? Not sure. Turkish style of play? He was strong though. Gave good width. Occean did well providing an outlet up top, as did Jackson. They didn't link-up much, the two being in a 4-5-1, but it was good between them nonetheless.

Should be thrilled with this result. UKR are right up there with the Mexico's and USA's of the world. WELL DONE BOYS! But be disappointed in drawing after leading. "

He said he took a hard knock just before half and was struggling after that.

[Obinna]

Agreed Villus. We have too many youngsters who can play the wings right now ahead of DeRo. yep he has class ability, but frankly, I'll take Hume, Jackson, Simpson, Issey etc over De Ro in a first XI on the wing on our 4-5-1/4-3-3.

still need to sort out our CF though....it's gotta be someone very mobile, I think, because we don't have the ability to deliver the right ball to Friend, nor provide the support once he's had his first touch or before he's had it.

Occean and Haber are both pretty mobile, I would like to see both called for the Greece friendly.

[1867]

Despite the poor second half-i thought there were great signs of glimpses of good composure in the second half where we started to carry the play a bit -albeit not enough of these sequences-and we kept the ball and took pressure off and carried the play a bit but lacked the biting edge. In the past we would have competely rolled over for the loss. This combined with the great first half makes this game a great building block for our boys and coach Hart. Judging by the look on the boys and the coaching staffs faces I think this team is developing some self belief.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Taking advantage of this thread to slag on those who were not there is no class guys, it is rather cheap. One thing is to point out defects, as in DeRos, which I know as well as anyone and posted about here years ago (he runs away from the play, his passing is sloppy, if he is not inspired he is positionally weak). Criticize for strict technical reasons. But another thing is to crap on him when he wasn't there. .

Anyone who plays for Canada deserves my respect. It is a thankless task, there is little home support and even less media support, and the results, which are bad, have to be shared around with everyone on the field and coaching. Evenly, fair and square. To say we have done better without DeRo is simply wrong, because we have done exactly the same with him or without him for the last decade: we have not won a thing and we have not played a final and we have not gotten to the HEX. We have stunk, and drawing the Ukraine in a meaningless friendly gives us no basis to come to any other conclusion.

Hindsight is 20-20 vision. Most people here slammed Atiba after the last friendlies, and he was not that great, vs. Peru he was weak. Today he was good. Win some, lose some. Stalteri was also a lot better today, in fact the problems came down the other side mostly as far as I could see.

All I am saying is get some perspective. Get some balance. Don't use the board for childish vendettas. You have got to be pretty mean-spirited to slag a player showing up for Canada because of the results, and you have got to be a bit perverse to look for scapegoats every time we don't get to the HEX or get a result. We have done f-all for a decade. And by some of the posts here you'd have to conclude that there are some fans who are not up to it either.

[RS]

taking advantage of this thread to slag on those who were not there is no class guys, it is rather cheap. One thing is to point out defects, as in deros, which i know as well as anyone and posted about here years ago (he runs away from the play, his passing is sloppy, if he is not inspired he is positionally weak). Criticize for strict technical reasons. But another thing is to crap on him when he wasn't there. .

Anyone who plays for canada deserves my respect. It is a thankless task, there is little home support and even less media support, and the results, which are bad, have to be shared around with everyone on the field and coaching. Evenly, fair and square. To say we have done better without dero is simply wrong, because we have done exactly the same with him or without him for the last decade: We have not won a thing and we have not played a final and we have not gotten to the hex. We have stunk, and drawing the ukraine in a meaningless friendly gives us no basis to come to any other conclusion.

Hindsight is 20-20 vision. Most people here slammed atiba after the last friendlies, and he was not that great, vs. Peru he was weak. Today he was good. Win some, lose some. Stalteri was also a lot better today, in fact the problems came down the other side mostly as far as i could see.

All i am saying is get some perspective. Get some balance. Don't use the board for childish vendettas. You have got to be pretty mean-spirited to slag a player showing up for canada because of the results, and you have got to be a bit perverse to look for scapegoats every time we don't get to the hex or get a result. We have done f-all for a decade. And by some of the posts here you'd have to conclude that there are some fans who are not up to it either.

qft.

[tmcmurph]

Anyone who plays for Canada deserves my respect. It is a thankless task, there is little home support and even less media support, and the results, which are bad, have to be shared around with everyone on the field and coaching.

Hear hear!!! Damn straight.

[BigBird]

How quickly we forget? but not forgive!

[MrCatliff22]

Canada looked tired at the end and it suggested That Ukraine was more fit. Canada did very well considering the weather and atmosphere. Canada is definetly improving under coach hart and we have some good core players. It was also a good result considering we were without Kevin Mckenna, JDG, and DDR. Good too see Edgar, Haber, and Uccelo get their first call ups. (only haber played). good game

[TFCRegina]

qft.

Plus one to your plus one.

Why slag our players that play for us? We have too damn few as it is.

[tarnado1555362291]

It is after all a post match thread, for a match DeRo was not even in.

[loyola]

Plus one to your plus one.

Why slag our players that play for us? We have too damn few as it is.

Overall I agree with Unnamed Trialist but I think we can question if players like JDG and DeRo should lose their spot because others players have offered better performances (ie: Dunfield, Simpson, Bernier, Jackson) in recent games. Also, we certainly can't just ignored those 2 guys, we're Canada and we'll need all the help in the world for WCQ, so these 2 wil have a role in the team for sure.

Slagging them like I've seen in this thread isn't OK. Questionning their place in the team is OK and als a good news because it means more competitions among our players.

[zeelaw]

Saw the 2-2 and was estatic, then saw the timeline of the goals then disappointed..

Regardless, hopefully we get a big jump in the rankings soon.

[Sam]

Haven't watched the match yet only saw the highlights and read through this thread. Regardless of the circumstances, giving up a 2 goal lead, it is a fantastic result. We've struggled away in Europe recently with losses in Poland, Macedonia, Estonia and Hungary. Our only win in Europe since the Austria game was the win against Cyprus last year and looking at all of those teams we played during that stretch Ukraine is probably the strongest and they are certainly the highest ranked which makes getting the result all the more important.

I think people who are suggesting 2 striker formations at this point in time are off the mark. Stephen Hart has shown his faith in the 4-3-3 formation throughout the year and I would be extremely surprised if that isn't the formation we go into World Cup Qualifying with. At the moment Simpson and Jackson have got to be the two starting wingers based on their performances over the last year with club and country. Simpson especially seems to be on a bit of a tear.

It's also encouraging to see Hutchinson playing well in the middle of the park. He could be the answer to that creative, attacking midfielder in that position. Play him alongside two more defensively minded guys in Dunfield, Johnson, Bernier or De Guzman and you've got a very strong midfield.

Can't wait to watch the full game - from all accounts it was a fantastic performance. And also two fuc-king brilliant goals

[Scorpio]

Just got back home and thought I would post a few comments on attending the match in Kyiv. First off, I wish to thank all the Canadian Expats who organized the pre-game pub gathering. It was great to meet you all and to see that the red and white is prominently displayed by our Diaspora. I'd also like to thank the Embassy staff for providing us with 50cent moosehead beers and schmoozing with all the diplomats. - I think we did a good job in shocking the US, UK and Australian diplomats as well as our own Embassy staff about the hard core Canada soccer supporters showing up. Additionally I'd like to thank Morgan and the CSA for hooking us up with those tickets and thank our boys for a great match. Lastly, I'd like to thank both Dan and Max for making this experience memorable.

Traveling to away games was great experience and I thought I'd share some of them for everyone so hopefully next time we have more supporters attend.

Although as the saying goes what happens there stays there, I will share my top 3 funny moments:

1. Dan (drunk) running towards the stadium gate chanting "Oh when the reds go marching in" and the old Ukrainian man telling us that the Reds (Soviet Red Army) did come marching in some 60 years ago and they didn’t like it.

2. Myself asking the usher during the match where the washroom was and then getting escorted to the washroom and back by five machine gun armed paramilitary police troopers. – Thank goodness for those VIP tickets!!

3. Going into various restaurants and waiting at the door while the wait staff all argue in Ukrainian amongst themselves not wanting to serve us as no one knew English.

All in all it was a good trip and I’m glad I went.

Already gearing up for the next one now

Cheers,

Pete

[Kurosawa1555362267]

1. Dan (drunk) running towards the stadium gate chanting "Oh when the reds go marching in" and the old Ukrainian man telling us that the Reds (Soviet Red Army) did come marching in some 60 years ago and they didn’t like it.

Really funny!!!

[bettermirror]

Crazy!

Sad that it'll never get noticed over here!

Forwarding the info to my 10 year olds on the team I coach!...

[finchster]

Just got back home and thought I would post a few comments on attending the match in Kyiv. First off, I wish to thank all the Canadian Expats who organized the pre-game pub gathering. It was great to meet you all and to see that the red and white is prominently displayed by our Diaspora. I'd also like to thank the Embassy staff for providing us with 50cent moosehead beers and schmoozing with all the diplomats. - I think we did a good job in shocking the US, UK and Australian diplomats as well as our own Embassy staff about the hard core Canada soccer supporters showing up. Additionally I'd like to thank Morgan and the CSA for hooking us up with those tickets and thank our boys for a great match. Lastly, I'd like to thank both Dan and Max for making this experience memorable.

Traveling to away games was great experience and I thought I'd share some of them for everyone so hopefully next time we have more supporters attend.

Although as the saying goes what happens there stays there, I will share my top 3 funny moments:

1. Dan (drunk) running towards the stadium gate chanting "Oh when the reds go marching in" and the old Ukrainian man telling us that the Reds (Soviet Red Army) did come marching in some 60 years ago and they didn’t like it.

2. Myself asking the usher during the match where the washroom was and then getting escorted to the washroom and back by five machine gun armed paramilitary police troopers. – Thank goodness for those VIP tickets!!

3. Going into various restaurants and waiting at the door while the wait staff all argue in Ukrainian amongst themselves not wanting to serve us as no one knew English.

All in all it was a good trip and I’m glad I went.

Already gearing up for the next one now

Cheers,

Pete

I will share three memories as well;

Having a carpet mishap outside my apartment and getting locked inside for two hours the night I arrived missing you guys the first night we arrived.

Pete’s reaction to the advice my girlfriend gave me, “Don’t smile, don’t wear sneakers and don’t wear a backpack,” then looking around seeing no one smiling inside McDonalds.

Yelling at Max to “keep walking” after someone dropped some money in front of us

[Iamcanadian]

I enjoyed seeing a spirited performance from our younger players but I'm not going to go overboard here. Ukraine took our team lightly and showed in the second half that our quality has a long way to go. I don't see the point of trashing players who weren't there but that seems to be a tradition on the Nat. team thread. Using the logic espoused here, I would suppose that Argentina would be well advised to dump Messi as he once again failed to lead Argentina with goals against Japan in their 1-0 loss.

Any team having a 2-0 lead at half and sits back and does nothing to counter their subs made at half. Tells you that Hart has a long way to go to catch up to Euro coaches. He was out classed in this one failing to reconize the change of the game at the 50 minute mark of the second half. He should have taken players much sooner in fact at half time, Oliver for sure as he appeared get tired towards the first half., Beaulieu Bourgault or what his name is really did not appear to be at the class of other and he slowed them down in the midfield, Stalteri had his great moments in the first and was time for him to come off.

Going in with fresh legs would have helped Im certain of it. But one thing for sure these lads did play and played well in the first have but it is a 90 minuted game and games are won and lost late in the game and done from subs coming into the game at the right time. As in this case a draw was a poor result. You cannot have coaches thinking Canadian style play and wanting to play euro style soccer and wait for mircales to happen with making changes you have to adjust and be concerned on every SUB Ukraine did and make counter measures. Hart failed in this area but had the right lads there to win for Canada.

This is the team I would take to Greece with maybe a 1 or 2 more players. We need not to disturb this good outing of this group lets see if Hart does really is changed his style of play and wants to win. He had lots of ggod talent and from the most part, he could have easily used at his disposal thes would have been my sub at half time with a 2-0 lead Farran, Uccello, Ledgerwood and Pacheco.

[Mazha]

My take on the game is that the Ukrainians underestimated us Canucks and when WE were up quite comfortably after the half, they did what any respectable European team would have done; they brought on their BIG BOY team. Simple as that. Hats off to our BOYS for staving off the attack and coming out of this match RESPECTABLY. Blaming Hart on tactics is pure rubbish.

[bettermirror]

Can't disagree with Mazha. 2-2 is nice, and it was good for our not-quite-A team to be up 2-0....but let's be realistic. Our opposition was not their A team either, and they underestimated us. Probably thanks to a certain Germany coach.

I wonder what line-up Ukraine will play v. Brazil today....gonna watch that one.

[BigBird]

Me too, Bettermirror and Mazha I thought it was played very well, a 2 zip at half was a surprise to the UkR> and surely a loss would have been another surprise but Bettermirror is right the opposition was a weaker UKR. team and not maybe the team it could have been. UKR took the opportuntity to look at some new faces with 5 or 6 changes in the second half, to our 2 or 3, but i agree with Canadian maybe showing some more faces maybe get more information about ours. But regardless the event should have given the MNT program some information that are positive for future call ups.

[Sam]

Me too, Bettermirror and Mazha I thought it was played very well, a 2 zip at half was a surprise to the UkR> and surely a loss would have been another surprise but Bettermirror is right the opposition was a weaker UKR. team and not maybe the team it could have been. UKR took the opportuntity to look at some new faces with 5 or 6 changes in the second half, to our 2 or 3, but i agree with Canadian maybe showing some more faces maybe get more information about ours. But regardless the event should have given the MNT program some information that are positive for future call ups.

Any updates from Uccello on how the players took the draw? I mean they've seemed to be pretty positive, but are they disappointed about how it fell apart in the end or just delighted to leave Ukraine with a very unexpected point.

[BigBird]

Any updates from Uccello on how the players took the draw? I mean they've seemed to be pretty positive, but are they disappointed about how it fell apart in the end or just delighted to leave Ukraine with a very unexpected point.

From littlebird eye, he thought we played really well he was impressed on the talent that was called up. He tells me he had a great time of it all. He also felt that he was NOT going to get his first cap with the team this time around as being his first call with the national team. As far as the tie he is relistic this result was a win for us and a concern for UKR team for the next match he as many relize they are better ranking team then Canada. But form his prospective nobody was disapointed just unlucky that maybe a third goal in the the first half would have secured the win and it was possible.

He was impressed with the beauty of the Ukraine and it was a wonderful trip and got to meet players he has not seen for such a long time and that in it self was nice for him. ANd now he can focus on his club and move forward to working hard there.

[paul-collins]

I won't throw Hart under the bus, as I tend to agree we were the minnows in this match, but I wonder if there's something to be learned tactically from the way the boys responded to the UKR subs' energy and skill. I've said elsewhere, I would hope he doesn't let himself off easily; we have a long way to go to grow the program and that's top to bottom.