Cheeta Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 What a complete load of crap. I can understand JDV giving players the benefit of the doubt on a lot of things. He's sat on their side of the fence long enough to know what's what in that garden but this is just stretching things too thin. Rubbish. Pure rubbish. Pity I'm back at work Friday or I promise you I'd be doing my best to see that all Hell would be breaking loose. Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Think people should draw a distinction between Hargreaves and Lensky on the one hand and Begovic on the other as Paul James did by omitting him in his blog entry. Somebody born and raised in Canada opting not to play for the CMNT is a different situation from somebody who arrives at 10 and leaves the country again by 16. Beyond that how on earth did Jason DeVos get the idea that there is something called "English citizenship" after living in the UK for over 10 years? England have struggled big time at the goalkeeping position in recent years so I'm not surprised they were interested in him. I think people should start asking serious questions about how the CSA handled things after being contacted by Jason DeVos. He is right about Craig Forrest never being replaced and the need to make every possible effort not to lose a player who might be able to accomplish it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard I think people should start asking serious questions about how the CSA handled things after being contacted by Jason DeVos. Well, after the Cyprus game, he was called for the GC. I'm not sure what the CSA did wrong here. What should've been done in this instance? The only realistic thing the CSA could've done is trying to offer him $$$ and I would be against that (could be a dangerous trend). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by johnmolinaro Jason is participating in a live chat for 1 hour this Friday at CBCSports.ca, so you can ask him direct questions about his blog then, if you like. http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2009/11/09/spf-chat-de-vos.html Hey, here's a thought! Maybe De Vos is setting the Voyageurs up to drive traffic to his chat! If he writes an article tomorrow entitled "Benito Archundia: FIFA's Referee of the Century", I guess we'll know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I am personally somewhere in the middle on this whole subject. I believe if you are Canadian, you were raised here, and you (and your family) have taken advantage of all this country has to offer, you owe a duty to play for your country. International football has seemingly lately become an extension of club football where players shop around to find the best "opportunity" for them. Playing for your national side is not about that; its about allegience to your country. It is for that reason that the World Cup transcends the sport and is such a draw for the non-fan. If it simply becomes another version of the champions league, it will be diminished accordingly. On the other side, the management of players is extremely important. Good smaller nations have realised this for years. A good manager (whether the trainer or the FA administration) needs to create an environment where players want to be there; where players believe they are cared for; and where their interests are looked out for. The world has moved on. You cannot treat players like **** and expect them to perform. Jame's comment about a player being dehyrdated and playing on tells me more about that time where management did not take care of their players, rather than the commitment of the players. If Canada does not learn to take a professional approach to their players and their needs/desires, we are doomed. Other nations certainly will and regardless of what we say and think, many more defections will occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 How is it that the comments below DeVos's blog are diametrically opposed to the ones expressed here? Is there some closet organization of anti-Canada, ill informed "Canadian" followers out there? I don't know about anyone here but there is nothing worse than being accused of something when you're innocent by the uninformed. The CSA hasn't been guilty of incompetence in most of these cases but they're the first ones to get blamed by the yahoos. Who'd want to work at the CSA and subject yourself to that garbage. You couldn't pay me enough to have my integrity insulted like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Joe, the reason why you can't read more opinion like you can find here is they aren't publishing it. I've posted twice (polite post but tough on Jason for not doing his research) and they have been censored. My guess is Jason is doing the moderating on his blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck in Boston Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Why is everyone so amazed? Devos is a footballer, not a journalist nor educated individual (just a guess, kill me if I am wrong). Certainly not Pulitzer material. Still woefully misinformed, nonetheless. So, is he still captain Canada? His participation cant be challenged, but insight...............................a fact checker would server him well. Sadly multiculturalism betrays Canada again. Brainwash, brainwash, brainwash. Melting Pot, just like here in the US, although it does fail at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 As much as I hate to do it, you can be sure I'll be cheering for Portugal to trounce Bosnia on the weekend. That way, Asmir can enjoy the World Cup in exactly the same way his former CDN mates will...from the comfort of his living room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola What should've been done in this instance? The only realistic thing the CSA could've done is trying to offer him $$$ and I would be against that (could be a dangerous trend). Questions might be raised by the fact that England were tuned into events at the FIFA level enough to anticipate that Begovic might soon be able to switch to their team (the change to FIFA regulations on removing the age limit on switching teams came early in June this year just a few days after the Cyprus game) while in the words of Jason Devos, "I passed that information on to the Canadian national team through the necessary channels, and it was met with relative indifference. There was certainly no urgency to seek a commitment from Begovic, nor was there any real fear that Canada was in danger of losing one of its players." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Canuck in Boston Why is everyone so amazed? Devos is a footballer, not a journalist nor educated individual (just a guess, kill me if I am wrong). Jason is quite intelligent. I've spoken to him a few times and have been impressed with his passion, knowledge and his willingness to stick his neck out on touchy issues. In this case, Jason didn't get it right, IMO. Many, if not most, Canadian soccer supporters have become quite reflexive in our willingness to lay blame at the CSA's doorstep for everything. Lord knows they've earned a reputation for screwing up more often than getting it right but, in the Begovic case, the current regime at the CSA can't really be blamed for his decision and the current regime is trying to get it as right as possible for all players. The CSA isn't the bogeyman it once was, although it still has a long way to go to clean up the remnants of what plagued it in the past. At the end of the day, you either choose to be part of the solution or part of the problem. Asmir chose the easy way out, which isn't overly shocking all things considered (as BBTB pointed out, he's a foreign born 6 year Canadian who likely has very minimal roots left in Canada if it's true his family has moved back to Europe). As Loyola properly states, if Asmir showed the maturity to just say "hey, I'm a Bosnian in my heart and that's who I want to represent and now I have that opportunity" I wouldn't be so quick to criticize. I would not be happy but at least he's man enough to tell the truth and I can respect that. I've heard through the grapevine that the one possibly legitimate beef Asmir does have is the fiasco at the Olympic qualifiers in 2008. If memory serves, his club wasn't keen for him to leave for that tournament but he was released, goes across the ocean but is the 2nd man behind Wagenaar who didn't even have a club at that time. I found that to be a very curious man management decision by Daso at the time and still do. However, beyond that, I am pretty confident in stating that Asmir has been treated very fairly and respectfully in the Stephen Hart era. What is most sad about all of this is that, if Dale Mitchell had half a brain in his head, he would have simply capped Begovic in Jamaica at the last WCQ match and then this is moot. I would have fired Dale just for that because that is something that a manager in that sort of situation must keep in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Yes, but SH did talk to Asmir around that time and Asmir told him he was going to play for Canada. So, what should we do, have a written agreement signed with a possibility of some penalties if a player goes against that contract??? At some point our NT coaches aren't police investigators, so if a player tells you in wants to play for Canada you have to believe him. Jason said it was met with "relative indifference" but I'm not sure what he meant and if that includes SH call to Asmir. I'm not sure calling him for the GC is "relative indifference". Also, keep in mind that facts checking doesn't seem to be Jason force so that paragraph isn't really explicit and we would need a little more information to understand what really happened there. Reading that article make it sound like the CSA treated Asmir with "relative indifference" since he first represented us at the U-17 level in 2003 when in fact he was treated like one of our best prospects and was called at every opportunity we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmolinaro Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola Joe, the reason why you can't read more opinion like you can find here is they aren't publishing it. I've posted twice (polite post but tough on Jason for not doing his research) and they have been censored. My guess is Jason is doing the moderating on his blog. No, he's not. moderation is done by an outside company hired by the CBC. make sure to set up a cbc online account first (should be a link at the bottom of his blog) - otherwise your comments won't get published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr From what I recall, Begovic was suspended for the first U-23 game because of his red card in the U-20 game against Congo. Wagenaar then played the first game against Mexico with a MOM performance. Dasovic decided to go back with him and Begovic left. Edit: I think Wagenaar was playing for a Danish club at that time (or maybe he signed after the U-23 tournament). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by johnmolinaro No, he's not. moderation is done by an outside company hired by the CBC. make sure to set up a cbc account first (should be a link at the bottom of hios blog) - otherwise your comments won't get published. I have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmolinaro Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I'm the one that is going to be moderating the chat on Friday, and I will be picking the questions that Jason will answer. So if you want to challenge him on this, feel free to submit your questions during the live chat. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I'm starting to get real sick of talking about these turncoats! We have a team of 17 or 18 committed players preparing for two matches and here we are talking about guys who bailed on us for one reason or another, who are NEVER going to be able to change their mind and come back! We have more and more depth in most positions so lets worry about the players we have! It sucks big time losing talented players, but I'd rather go to Central America for WCQ matches having piss bags thrown at you with players who are truly committed to Canada! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Canuck in Boston Why is everyone so amazed? Devos is a footballer, not a journalist nor educated individual (just a guess, kill me if I am wrong). Certainly not Pulitzer material. .... The more I think about it the more I get the impression JDV is just pushing our buttons. At a time when we have been stung by the defections of a couple of the more promising youth players he's latched onto an event which in broader terms aims a spot light onto some of the CSA's weaknesses. He paints the subject in sympathy and here we are, losing our minds. Yeah, it's a cheap trick and not especially imaginative but if we can get past the details of what are the facts in the Ass-smear Event and get into talking about the bigger and more important issues, like why after 4 or 5 years in our youth programs a player who's wanted by the senior NT can still find the balls to tell Canada, "Uhmm. No thanks." then fine. Mission accomplished. That is something we should be talking about. Cheap trick or no. Or I could be giving JDV too much credit. But I still think he's trying to push our buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by johnmolinaro No, he's not. moderation is done by an outside company hired by the CBC. make sure to set up a cbc online account first (should be a link at the bottom of his blog) - otherwise your comments won't get published. Outsourced to Bangalore?[] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmolinaro Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BearcatSA Outsourced to Bangalore?[] Company in Winnipeg, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Why were his posts censored? I didn't see any graphic violence or threat to national security. The only thing I saw was a disagreement with de Vos. I saw another post that said something like "I love you Jason but I disagree." Would loyola's posts have gone through if he declared his love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Well, they finally published my post but it is a shorter version of the other 2 I did before where I was adressing more points where Jason failed to do proper research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Very poor, Jason. I hope he does read this board - based on the initial statements in his article he does. Bego ditched us, plain and simple. Now doesn't even have the courage to make a statement re: it, without feeding a journalist who clearly doesn't want to burn bridges with a fellow GK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmolinaro Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 The point of Jason's blog was only to present Asmir's side of the story - hence the headline. I don't think Jason necessarily agrees with it, but he just wanted to present the story from Asmir's perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Mister man, some of those blog responses! There hasn't been that much disinformation since Tokyo Rose, Axis Sally, and Lord Haw Haw. Those comments really have to be rebutted with extreme prejudice at the live chat. I'd leave a comment at the CBC blog but I don't speak sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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