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The other side of the Asmir Begovic story


jonovision

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quote:Originally posted by loyola

I think De Vos was forced to write a part 2 because he realized how misinformed his part 1 was....

That's the impression I get as well. The point of the first blog seems to be to put the blame on the CSA, but the second blog has him concluding that the CSA isn't at fault, thus rendering the first entry somewhat pointless.

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quote:Originally posted by Vic

He played U20 for us and I'm sure we paid the same amount of money for other players on that team who will never cap senior. $60k in development costs for a good U20 keeper is probably the going rate. Not sure how much it costs for one that mentally flips out and grabs a ball on his 30yd line though.

Vic, there is a difference between developing someone to the tune of $60k and NOT selecting them to further participate in the national program, and providing these funds to someone who then bails on the program. And yes, "bail" is far too kind of a word with the resume he has with Canada both on the field and off.

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quote:Originally posted by VPjr

As much as I hate to do it, you can be sure I'll be cheering for Portugal to trounce Bosnia on the weekend. That way, Asmir can enjoy the World Cup in exactly the same way his former CDN mates will...from the comfort of his living room

Lack of consistency alert: Portugal also took a GK from us.

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quote:Vic, there is a difference between developing someone to the tune of $60k and NOT selecting them to further participate in the national program, and providing these funds to someone who then bails on the program. And yes, "bail" is far too kind of a word with the resume he has with Canada both on the field and off.

As long as by saying "we are developing someone" the "we" is their parents. Because they're the one's who pay for their development virtually their entire youth carer.

I agree with almost everything said about the guy. Waffler, needs coddling, acting in his self-interest, etc. I'm fine with all that. People leave marriages every day. Many leave kids behind. Life is messy.

But what I'm not fine with is people thinking we're ManU or Everton. We don't take in the best kids at young ages and pay for their development. We offload it onto parents and pop in when they turn U17 and give kids a meager allowance to give up their time and play for us. Let's put that $60k in context. He's 22, and he's been representing us for 5 years. That's $12k a year. He could have made a Hell of a lot more working at McDonalds. And they wouldn't have vilified and personally insulted him and his family and come looking for the money.

The stuff people are talking about places all the blame on the kids leaving. I doubt there's a counselor in the world who's advice wouldn't be the better reaction is to look in the mirror.

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Vic, 60 K for 5 years but for 4 of those years he was with Portsmouth where he was getting a decent amount of money. So basically that money was used on plane tickets and hotels bills to have him attend youth NT activities. That money could've been used on another player.

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Sure that's valid, if you believe we flew him over to develop him. I think we flew him over to win games. The answer is somewhere in the middle. But to reclaim money you would have to prove there was no performance consideration, which is not the case.

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Well, in official competiton I would say you are right, we flew him to win games. But most of his appearance were made in friendlies which are played in a preparation mode more than a winning mode.

Anyways, I think Asmir himself should offer reimburse a portion of what was given to him. We are investing $$$ to have have a serious program ( and offering some of those kids a great experience (playing international soccer). Of course, we aren't doing that just to travel a few kids around the world, we are doing that in order to developp players and teams who'll help our MNT qualify to a WC (yes, I know it's far from being perfectly run program but the idea is there). So, when a player use all of what we offered to him during 5-6 years and he decides to play for another country, I think we should be entitled to recover some of that money.

I've heard the Australian FA has a deal with their players that if they are going to play for another country they'll have to pay back some of the money they received.

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Ok, I didn't know you were viewing this on the legal side. Well, I agree with you that he doesn't owe us anything but I wouldn't see any problem at having youth players signing a contract stipulating that if the CSA has invest an amount X of money for you to particpate in youth NT activities and you decide to play for another country you'll have to reimburse X % of that amount.

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The problem for me was the FIFA rule change. While it was a noble intent to help poorer African teams to repatriate certain players from stronger (and richer) footballing countries, it has the

opposite effect for "minnows" like Canada. Richer footballing nations may not care as they can poach better players from other nations, with no guarantee that they would give them ample playing time.

While I applaud the Australian FA for having a commitment pact on its players, it's too bad that there's no scheme in FIFA to make the other FA pay for the release of the player they wanted.

Maybe Bosnia (or other poachers) would pay the $60k to complete the Begovic transfer? FIFA can set the fee to make it fair ...

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As long as by saying "we are developing someone" the "we" is their parents. Because they're the one's who pay for their development virtually their entire youth carer.

I agree with almost everything said about the guy. Waffler, needs coddling, acting in his self-interest, etc. I'm fine with all that. People leave marriages every day. Many leave kids behind. Life is messy.

But what I'm not fine with is people thinking we're ManU or Everton. We don't take in the best kids at young ages and pay for their development. We offload it onto parents and pop in when they turn U17 and give kids a meager allowance to give up their time and play for us. Let's put that $60k in context. He's 22, and he's been representing us for 5 years. That's $12k a year. He could have made a Hell of a lot more working at McDonalds. And they wouldn't have vilified and personally insulted him and his family and come looking for the money.

The stuff people are talking about places all the blame on the kids leaving. I doubt there's a counselor in the world who's advice wouldn't be the better reaction is to look in the mirror.

vic - You have hit the nail right on the head! Its nice to see someone who has this thing downpacked. I felt every word you wrote above.

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quote:Originally posted by FIRST ELEVEN

As long as by saying "we are developing someone" the "we" is their parents. Because they're the one's who pay for their development virtually their entire youth carer.

I agree with almost everything said about the guy. Waffler, needs coddling, acting in his self-interest, etc. I'm fine with all that. People leave marriages every day. Many leave kids behind. Life is messy.

But what I'm not fine with is people thinking we're ManU or Everton. We don't take in the best kids at young ages and pay for their development. We offload it onto parents and pop in when they turn U17 and give kids a meager allowance to give up their time and play for us. Let's put that $60k in context. He's 22, and he's been representing us for 5 years. That's $12k a year. He could have made a Hell of a lot more working at McDonalds. And they wouldn't have vilified and personally insulted him and his family and come looking for the money.

The stuff people are talking about places all the blame on the kids leaving. I doubt there's a counselor in the world who's advice wouldn't be the better reaction is to look in the mirror.

vic - You have hit the nail right on the head! Its nice to see someone who has this thing downpacked. I felt every word you wrote above.

First of all, the term is down "pat". Second, Vic, has it dead wrong. Comparing a player being supported by a national sporting entity to an employee at McDonald's takes away all validity to his argument.

The lad has spent money which should/could have been spent on someone else who is committed to Canada. The money was spent on him as he declared his allegiance world wide to Canada by appearing in an Adidas commercial ahead of appearing for Canada in the World Cup.

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quote:Originally posted by FIRST ELEVEN

As long as by saying "we are developing someone" the "we" is their parents. Because they're the one's who pay for their development virtually their entire youth carer.

I agree with almost everything said about the guy. Waffler, needs coddling, acting in his self-interest, etc. I'm fine with all that. People leave marriages every day. Many leave kids behind. Life is messy.

But what I'm not fine with is people thinking we're ManU or Everton. We don't take in the best kids at young ages and pay for their development. We offload it onto parents and pop in when they turn U17 and give kids a meager allowance to give up their time and play for us. Let's put that $60k in context. He's 22, and he's been representing us for 5 years. That's $12k a year. He could have made a Hell of a lot more working at McDonalds. And they wouldn't have vilified and personally insulted him and his family and come looking for the money.

The stuff people are talking about places all the blame on the kids leaving. I doubt there's a counselor in the world who's advice wouldn't be the better reaction is to look in the mirror.

vic - You have hit the nail right on the head! Its nice to see someone who has this thing downpacked. I felt every word you wrote above.

First of all, the term is down "pat". Second, Vic, has it dead wrong. Comparing a player being supported by a national sporting entity to an employee at McDonald's takes away all validity to his argument.

The lad has spent money which should/could have been spent on someone else who is committed to Canada. The money was spent on him as he declared his allegiance world wide to Canada by appearing in an Adidas commercial ahead of appearing for Canada in the World Cup.

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The CSA should have held onto his transfer paper work until reimbursed for his Sport Canada monies. I would take the hard-ass line in any future situations like this and sit on the paper until we have been compensated.

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1. Bosnia lost to Portugal today.....KARMA.

2. Were not the only nation poached by Bosnia.

FIFA clears Medunjanin to play for Bosnia. This guy even won a championship with the Dutch.

19:00 GMT, Sat 14 Nov 2009

BELGRADE, Nov 14 (Reuters) - Midfielder Haris Medunjanin has been cleared by FIFA to play for Bosnia in their World Cup two-legged playoff against Portugal, the Bosnian Football Association (NFSBIH) said on Saturday.

Medunjanin was born in Bosnia but fled the country during its 1992-95 conflict with some of his family and moved to Netherlands with whom he won the European under-21 championship in 2006 and 2007 after adopting Dutch nationality.

"FIFA has cleared Medunjanin to play for Bosnia-Herzegovina in time for the two-game tie with Portugal," NFSBIH spokeswoman Slavica Pecikoza told Reuters by telephone.

Bosnia were playing Portugal in Lisbon later on Saturday, with the return leg set for Zenica on Wednesday.

The winners will reach next year's finals in South Africa and if Bosnia were to spring an upset it would be their first appearance at a major tournament as an independent nation.

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quote:Originally posted by Cheeta

Is that dollar figure representative of Sport Canada funding Ass-smear personally received as a carded athlete? Because if it is, that's just the thin edge of the wedge.

What other monies the CSA invested into his training, travel, accommodations and what not during his time with the various NT youth programs I can only imagine.

In the early 1990's, the money that was spent on an Officer going through RMC was a least $250,000. I would expect they may have spent as much relating to Asmir when all the costs are factored in.

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quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

Yes, and since Mitchell was content with going with his #1 keeper in an otherwise inexperience and experimental line-up (which, to coin a phrase, anyone with half a brain would also have done), what you are effectively saying is that they shouldn't have bothered to call him at all and no doubt gone with someone like Greg Sutton or Kenny Stamatopolous as the back-up. Which would still leave the situation un-changed with respect to Begovic and Bosnia.

Yallop used a meaningless game to evaluate Sutton (better option than the friendlies he played). It shouldn't have been that hard to do the same with Asmir, even with having him play just one half.

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quote:Originally posted by superbrad

2. Were not the only nation poached by Bosnia.

FIFA clears Medunjanin to play for Bosnia. This guy even won a championship with the Dutch.

19:00 GMT, Sat 14 Nov 2009

The commentators on the Setanta telecast mentioned that Pjanic was also poached - from Luxembourg.

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quote:Originally posted by theaub

Comparing Fernandes to Begovic is pretty laughable.

Are you referring to the fact that Fernandes was born in Edmonton and raised in East Vancouver? Much more comparable with the likes of Lensky and Hargreaves in that regard than to Begovic, in my opinion. He also has actually made it as a regular starter at a very high level, while it's still more a case of projected potential at this point where Begovic is concerned.

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quote:Originally posted by superbrad

1. Bosnia lost to Portugal today.....KARMA.

2. Were not the only nation poached by Bosnia.

FIFA clears Medunjanin to play for Bosnia. This guy even won a championship with the Dutch.

Medunjanin is a long story. He actually rejected a call-up from Bosnia when he was 21 and decided to play for the dutch U-21 instead.There was a quite funny comparison on a bosnian TV station a few days ago.They showed two interviews with Medunjanin(year 2003 and 2009).In the first he says "It's better for me to play for the Dutch " in the other "I always wanted to play for Bosnia" [:o)]

And we're not completely out yet,we still have to play in Zenica.

Begovic had a few interviews with bosnian and croatian(they seem to adore our team after our preparations in Croatia)media and in every single he said that it was a very hard decision for him and that our coach made the difference at the end.(Read this article and you will maybe understand it:http://www.buzzle.com/articles/305680.html)

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Maybe not the best place to post this but I've had comments made to me by people who should know that lead me to ask this question?

Does the CSA pay the full cost of players who choose to play for Canada? All the time? I can't verify either way but I wouldn't take the comments by our national association at face value.

Let's just say that I sense that the difficulties in playing for Canada sometimes are more than just travel logistics and releases from clubs.

I would be interested in finding out what others have been told. And no. this is not from an arrogant or self-absorbed veterin of the national team.

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