johnmolinaro Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Joe MacCarthy Mister man, some of those blog responses! There hasn't been that much disinformation since Tokyo Rose, Axis Sally, and Lord Haw Haw. Those comments really have to be rebutted with extreme prejudice at the live chat. By all means, have your say and question Jason about this. Take full advantage of the opportunity. And no, J didn't write this blog just to build interest for the chat - we decided to do the chat long before he wrote the blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFCRegina Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by johnmolinaro The point of Jason's blog was only to present Asmir's side of the story - hence the headline. I don't think Jason necessarily agrees with it, but he just wanted to present the story from Asmir's perspective. Should have done a better job to distance himself from it. I hate the CSA as much as the next man, but if it's Asmir's views on the situation, then the man has to be smoking something good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by johnmolinaro By all means, have your say and question Jason about this. Take full advantage of the opportunity. It's not so much Jason I have the problem with, it's the moronic anti-CSA responses. Some of those guys must have been hanging out with the other hundred shooters on the grassy knoll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Mod post: Because this was written by De Vos, I believe it can be left in this section of the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr I've heard through the grapevine that the one possibly legitimate beef Asmir does have is the fiasco at the Olympic qualifiers in 2008. If memory serves, his club wasn't keen for him to leave for that tournament but he was released, goes across the ocean but is the 2nd man behind Wagenaar who didn't even have a club at that time. I found that to be a very curious man management decision by Daso at the time and still do. However, beyond that, I am pretty confident in stating that Asmir has been treated very fairly and respectfully in the Stephen Hart era. This is in no way a legitimate beef. Players do not select the starting squad and if I remember correctly, Wagenaar played quite well in this tournament. You are trying to tell us he switched to Bosnia because they made him a guaranteed starter? How many minutes has he played so far? If he was worried about starting time, any keeper in our system would have to be pretty happy about the current situation since our starting national team keeper spot is pretty much up for grabs. quote:Originally posted by VPjr What is most sad about all of this is that, if Dale Mitchell had half a brain in his head, he would have simply capped Begovic in Jamaica at the last WCQ match and then this is moot. I would have fired Dale just for that because that is something that a manager in that sort of situation must keep in mind. How many times does it have to be stated on this board that at the time he was capped. One could make an argument that Mitchell should have started him to try out a younger player but not that he should have started him to cap him. As far as Mitchell was concerned he was capped, he couldn't have foreseen FIFa would change the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmolinaro Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Just to let you know, Jason has just written a new blog, this time presenting the Asmir Begovic story from the CSA's point of view. it will be published on CBCSports.ca sometime later today. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Wow. Zero to do with the POV of anyone to do with Begovic, and simply to do with listening and being active - all the respect I had lost has now been recouped and then some. Kudos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly This is in no way a legitimate beef. Players do not select the starting squad and if I remember correctly, Wagenaar played quite well in this tournament. You are trying to tell us he switched to Bosnia because they made him a guaranteed starter? How many minutes has he played so far? If he was worried about starting time, any keeper in our system would have to be pretty happy about the current situation since our starting national team keeper spot is pretty much up for grabs. How many times does it have to be stated on this board that at the time he was capped. One could make an argument that Mitchell should have started him to try out a younger player but not that he should have started him to cap him. As far as Mitchell was concerned he was capped, he couldn't have foreseen FIFa would change the rules. Grizzly Re: the U23 Tournament</u> I agree players don't pick the squad. My recollection is that Wagenaar was playing ok too for the most part. I'm just recounting what I've been told by people on that team. He wasn't happy to be pulled out of his professional club to play behind a guy who was unnattached at the time. Many of his teammates seem to have some sympathy with that view too, to be honest. Re: Not being capped vs. Jamaica</u> Of course it was not known that the rule would change but what on earth is the point in bringing a young GK into that camp if he wasn't going to play. It was a meaningless game. I couldn't understand it then and I can't understand it now. If you aren't going to use a keeper in that type of match, don't bring him in from Europe to sit on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 VPjr, Begovic was suspended for the first game. he had to understand that Josh playing well in that first game meant he gave him the opportunity to take his job. As for the game in Jamaica, it was Begovic first call with the MNT since the Iceland friendly and Jamaica were in need of goals. Mitchell could've played him, that would've been an understandable decision, but not playing him in favour of Hirschfeld isn't a bad decision either. You call him and give him some experience training with the squad and at the end of the day a goalkeeper has to know there's only one of the 2 who'll play the game 99% of the time. The squad we used in Jamaica was already experimental and unexperienced, throwing an uncapped keeper with very little pro experience at that time (only L1 and L2 experience) in there wouldn't help our case IMO. I don't see a problem with Mitchell decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola VPjr, Begovic was suspended for the first game. he had to understand that Josh playing well in that first game meant he gave him the opportunity to take his job. again, to be clear, I'm just retelling the story I've been told. I really don't care if Asmir felt hard done by at that tournament. He's not the first player to feel that way and won't be the last. quote:Originally posted by loyola As for the game in Jamaica, it was Begovic first call with the MNT since the Iceland friendly and Jamaica were in need of goals. Mitchell could've played him, that would've been an understandable decision, but not playing him in favour of Hirschfeld isn't a bad decision either. You call him and give him some experience training with the squad and at the end of the day a goalkeeper has to know there's only one of the 2 who'll play the game 99% of the time. The squad we used in Jamaica was already experimental and unexperienced, throwing an uncapped keeper with very little pro experience at that time (only L1 and L2 experience) in there wouldn't help our case IMO. I don't see a problem with Mitchell decision. I think the fact that the team was so experimental means that it was the perfect opportunity to give a young keeper his first taste of big game experience in a hostile arena. We had NOTHING to play for but pride. A young keeper might have been more hungry to put on a good show than Lars, who had gone through all the drama that was surrounding that group. But, again, its only relevant because FIFA changed the rules. I've always been curious to know when the CSA got word of the rules changes re: eligibility. My guy tells me that someone had to have some inkling that something this significant was being considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Of course it was not known that the rule would change but what on earth is the point in bringing a young GK into that camp if he wasn't going to play. It was a meaningless game. I couldn't understand it then and I can't understand it now. If you aren't going to use a keeper in that type of match, don't bring him in from Europe to sit on the bench. But that's an argument not to call him at all, in which case he still wouldn't be cap-tied. Simeon Jackson was another young player called into that camp and didn't play, but he got to practice with the players that would be his teammates - according to Hart this allowed a bit of familiarity for him with the players he would go on to play with in the Gold Cup. Was Mitchell mindless for doing that too? And isn't the real issue that Simeon Jackson wanted to play for Canada and Begovic jumped ship the first chance he got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca But that's an argument not to call him at all, in which case he still wouldn't be cap-tied. Disagree G-L....I'm saying that if you are going to bring him in, play him. At the end of the day, I don't care...what's done is done. replaying history is a fruitless exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 De Vos' new blog is up: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/2009/11/the_csas_side_of_the_asmir_beg.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 $60K in Sport Canada funding eh? Maybe Bosnia should be forced to pay compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFCRegina Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Joe MacCarthy It's not so much Jason I have the problem with, it's the moronic anti-CSA responses. Some of those guys must have been hanging out with the other hundred shooters on the grassy knoll. Begovic shot JFK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 "And what would I say to those players who choose to jump ship on our national team? If you’re willing to turn your back on Canada because it is more convenient for your club career to play for another country, you’re not the kind of player I want representing Canada in the first place. " Good point, Jason. That's exactly how many of us feel on this board. (You should have mentioned on the blog that this was a 2-part article.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Disagree G-L....I'm saying that if you are going to bring him in, play him. Yes, and since Mitchell was content with going with his #1 keeper in an otherwise inexperience and experimental line-up (which, to coin a phrase, anyone with half a brain would also have done), what you are effectively saying is that they shouldn't have bothered to call him at all and no doubt gone with someone like Greg Sutton or Kenny Stamatopolous as the back-up. Which would still leave the situation un-changed with respect to Begovic and Bosnia. At the end of the day, there's only one person to blame, and this time it's not Mitchell. Its with complete hindsight that people can criticize Mitchell for not cap-tieing a player who was already cap-tied. This comment from the latest De Vos blog: "When Begovic was on the bench for Canada’s 3-0 World Cup qualifying loss to Jamaica in November last year, Dale Mitchell should have used his final substitution to put Begovic into the game. That would have tied Begovic to Canada for the rest of his career. " is the latest example of it. Note to Jason - at the time he was cap-tied to Canada for the rest of his career. FIFA un-cap-tied him, creating a new word in the process! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 If Mitchell had started Begovic in the Jamaica game and he was shellshocked 5-0 (shades of his stint at La Louviere when he was 18) i think we would have all criticized Mitchell for throwing the kid to the wolves. Sometimes you can't win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 If Mitchell had started Begovic in the Jamaica game and he was shellshocked 5-0 (shades of his stint at La Louviere when he was 18) i think we would have all criticized Mitchell for throwing the kid to the wolves. Sometimes you can't win. Exactly, and in the worst case scenario, a 7-0 or 8-0 loss (if TFC can beat MTL B team 6-1, I don't see why Jamaica couldn,t do the same with our B team), we would've pissed off Mexico who would've had declare an eternal revenge on us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr $60K in Sport Canada funding eh? Maybe Bosnia should be forced to pay compensation. Is that dollar figure representative of Sport Canada funding Ass-smear personally received as a carded athlete? Because if it is, that's just the thin edge of the wedge. What other monies the CSA invested into his training, travel, accommodations and what not during his time with the various NT youth programs I can only imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Maybe a mention that it was a 2 part article and what the focus of part 2 would entail is something to consider in the future??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hectorj Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 It is not only in football that this has happened. Remember top 20 tennis player Greg Rusedski? He "never felt Canadian" and opted to play internationally for Britain. Like Hargreaves he was mocked by many in the UK press for his obvious attempts to portray his "Britishness". Like Begovic he received a lot of federal funding, but he paid it back after jumping ship. Begovic should do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 He should have to pay that back! Send him a bill....when he doesn't pay though....are the legal fees worth it!? Should pay all the costs back. Flight, food, uniforms, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror Maybe a mention that it was a 2 part article and what the focus of part 2 would entail is something to consider in the future??? I think De Vos was forced to write a part 2 because he realized how misinformed his part 1 was.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 He played U20 for us and I'm sure we paid the same amount of money for other players on that team who will never cap senior. $60k in development costs for a good U20 keeper is probably the going rate. Not sure how much it costs for one that mentally flips out and grabs a ball on his 30yd line though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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