kyam Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by masster I would expect and hope that the format remains the same for this coming year. Allow the tournament to gain in popularity and recognition amongst the fanbase and media before expanding it. I thought TFC won this torny fairly given the fact that the rules were already in place, but wouldn't it be wise to avoid the same situation where the eventual Champions (TFC) won the torny based on a "meaningless" game for the opponent (Impact)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 I don't think it'd be wise to start allowing teams into the competition (at least at the same level as the pro clubs) due to which region they are based out of. The only way I could see a team advancing to the V's Cup is if a spot were given to the BMO National Championship champion. Things just aren't developed enough out here to warrant teams from the prairies entrance into the competition. The V's Cup has to stay exclusive to THE highest calibre the country can offer, and currently I think the gap between CSL and USL-1 is far too large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by kyam I thought TFC won this torny fairly given the fact that the rules were already in place, but wouldn't it be wise to avoid the same situation where the eventual Champions (TFC) won the torny based on a "meaningless" game for the opponent (Impact)? Note the date of that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyam Posted June 23, 2009 Share Posted June 23, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Scottie Note the date of that post. I wonder how Maaster feels about it now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottawaguy2009 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Montreal can't be blamed for the lack of teams in the pool. Three teams hardly qualifies as a tournament. Had the CSA(?) organized this better there would be 4 - 6 teams in the tournament and certain games would be held simultaneously to avoid a B team being fielded. As I've suggested before: Whitecaps Impact TFC CSL Champ Maritimes Champ (best provincial squad or senior team) Prairie Champ: AB, SK, MB (best provincial squad or senior team) There would be a draw. Two pools. Three teams in each pool. Round-robin, home and away series for each pool. Winner of Pool A faces off against winner of Pool B for the championship. ----- Saskatoon played host to Toronto FC on a scorching afternoon at Griffiths Stadium Saturday. A sellout crowd of 5,462 was on hand to see the Reds take on hometown Arauco of Saskatoon's Men's Premier League. The fans, donning mostly red and white in support of Canada's most successful MLS team, were loud and raucous throughout. Amado Guevara, captain of the Honduran national team, scored a goal from a set piece in the 68th minute. Unable to reply, Arauco eventually fell 2 - 0, but not without giving Saskatoon an amazing display of skill and hardwork. Tannis Holmes brought her two sons Nathan and Jayden. "Ahh, it was fantastic. My boys just love soccer. They both play and they just love it." Connor MacCormack, a player with the University of Saskatchewan's Men's Huskies squad was also on hand for the match. "It was incredible. To see a game of this calibre played in Saskatoon is awesome. It just goes to show that soccer is on the rise in this country and that we can still dare to dream. My friends and I are already talking about trying out for a couple men's premier teams to see if we can't have a chance one day." Saskatoon Arauco, now 0 - 1, will fly to Vancouver June 2 to take on the Vancouver Whitecaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metro Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 If they keep the same format, it'd be fair if Vancouver and Montreal take part in the last match of the tourny next year as TFC has had that priviledge the past two seasons (and of course took full advantage of it last week). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I'm pretty sure this year they had #2 @ #1 as the last game. So next year would have VAN @ TFC. The idea is to "punish" the last-place team by not having them play what is usually the deciding game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeltfc91 Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 Is it for 2010 or 2011 where the CSA review the competition and make a change if they choose to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 quote:Originally posted by michaeltfc91 Is it for 2010 or 2011 where the CSA review the competition and make a change if they choose to? 2010 It also depends on the CONCACAF Champions League`s future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 quote:Originally posted by kyam I wonder how Masster feels about it now I actually feel the same way now as I did before (regarding the number of teams). This is not an Open Cup nor should it be. This is a mini Canadian league. I believe there should be minimum standards set as to who gets to participate. AS for the outcome of the tournament, I hope everybody in the Montreal organization dies an agonizing and painful death, but besides that, I don't think there is anyway to 'fix' what happened this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masster Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Daniel I'm pretty sure this year they had #2 @ #1 as the last game. So next year would have VAN @ TFC. The idea is to "punish" the last-place team by not having them play what is usually the deciding game. While that may have been the case for this year, Toronto arbitrarily hosted the final game in year 1 of the tournament (which was extremely important). Given the circumstances of this year as well as the fact that Vancouver is the only city that has yet to host the final game, I think it should be at Swangard next year. In fact, it will in all likelihood be the last male CSA event at what has been a Canadian soccer venue with loads of history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercanuck Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Ben Knight brought the idea up, again, on the "It's Called Football" podcast, of expanding the V-Cup. I'm mulling the idea also with the thought of the CSL being "certified" by the CSA (I still don't know what that means). How about a March Madness style cup with 16 teams, the 10 CSL teams and the top 6 from the senior nationals of the previous year. So in 2009 it would have been, Calgary Callies, Corfinium de St-Leonard, Avondale Islanders, Gorge FC, Halifax City and AEK London. If the CSL expands in the future, then the number from the Seniors drops. These 16 teams play down for the 1 spot to make the V-Cup a 4 team round robin. There would be 4 sites each hosting 4 teams for 3 games in the first round and one site for a final four. Two long weekends of a commitment for these clubs. The breakdown by province for the 16 teams would be: BC-1, AB-1, SK-0, MB-0, ON-10, QC-2, NB-0, PE-1, NS-1, NL-0. I know it is still very GTA based but if that is where the money is then you just have to follow it. Maybe it shows a team like Corfinium that they can play in the CSL on regular basis. Maybe a few extra players get noticed and signed to pro contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Ok... Once again I'd like to point out that it was CONCACAF that made the call on limiting the tournament to the three teams. The CSA was involved in the discussions, as were the three teams, but ultimately it was up to CONCACAF to sign off. At this time they weren't willing to agree to sanction a tournament that involved a team outside of the three that are in it. I've asked CSA executives directly what would happen if another Canadian city came in at the USL-1 level. There was no hesitation - they would be involved in the tournament. Getting the CSL/PCSL/whateverSL involved right now isn’t realistic. It would do nothing but create a greater degree of fixture congestion for the fully pro teams and I’m not sure how valuable it would be to have some semi-pro team losing by five goals. I am in full agreement that we need to develop our pro infrastructure at the division two level and I fully support the CSL’s efforts to try and become a more national league. I hope that they can re-establish an open cup and I feel that such a competition would be a worthwhile goal for those teams along with the PDL clubs, the PCSL teams and top armature teams across the country. as far as having those teams compete with the ‘Caps, TFC and Impact…are you sure they even want to. I mean, who would pay for it? It’s not like the V-Cup is making boatloads of money right now so that it can underwrite travel expenses for the Doug’s Plumbing Greater Peterborough Old Boys… I would love to see a fourth team in it -- another USL-1 team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy I’m not sure how valuable it would be to have some semi-pro team losing by five goals. We disagree. This would not happen (My opinion). If CSL were admitted into the V's Cup, I can guarantee that the CSL team who earns the right to represent the league in the tournament would load up like crazy. the exposure for the league would be unbelievable. They would do everything possible to avoid being embarassed. quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy are you sure they even want to. I mean, who would pay for it? It’s not like the V-Cup is making boatloads of money right now so that it can underwrite travel expenses for the Doug’s Plumbing Greater Peterborough Old Boys… YES...The absolutely 100% definitely want to be part of the V's cup. In the case of the CSL, I have 100% confidence that all the teams in the league would pitch in to ensure that its representative can meet all obligations. Participation in the V's cup would be the ultimate coming out party for the league and they would not let themselves look bad. Don't underestimate the money that could be attracted into the league if there is the prospect of "showing TFC how to build a good team". I'm not even remotely exaggerating. That sentiment exists (hell, those words have come out of my mouth too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juby Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 edit: I got ahead of myself and just read mediaguys stuff but if it took getting the lower levels up to snub, not really a bad investment, I wish we could have a really inclusive (maybe not to inclusive) tourney and if the final team wasn't up to snub, then maybe move them to the nearest appropriate venue, unfortunately I am talking about money that would need to be talked out of people who have; institutions like csa (doubtful), the big teams (super doubtful) I don't wanna get into the hole lowering the standards of the cup with teams that aren't up to snub for a quality competition, which is a fair point, but you have to admit, the idea of a tiny team in a tiny stadium fighting it's way into the big leagues and possibly winning it's way to champions league has a serious media appeal to it. Probably would never happen but imagine a csl team made it to champions league, this doesn't seem like that much of a benefit but that csl team might actually get some asses in the stands for a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr We disagree. This would not happen (My opinion). You're probably right. Only Montreal could lose by five goals. [8D][}] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Juby I don't wanna get into the hole lowering the standards of the cup with teams that aren't up to snub for a quality competition, which is a fair point, but you have to admit, the idea of a tiny team in a tiny stadium fighting it's way into the big leagues and possibly winning it's way to champions league has a serious media appeal to it. Probably would never happen but imagine a csl team made it to champions league, this doesn't seem like that much of a benefit but that csl team might actually get some asses in the stands for a season. Stadium is the word that caught my attention here. How many of these semi pro sides actually play in a stadium type facility as opposed to a field. Lets not forget that Concacaf took action to exclude sides that didn't have adequate facilities. I dont see how included some of the semi pro sides actaully grows the game from the standpoint of fan and commercial interest. Canadians and americans take a different views of semi pro and minor pro professional sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Stadium is the word that caught my attention here. How many of these semi pro sides actually play in a stadium type facility as opposed to a field. Lets not forget that Concacaf took action to exclude sides that didn't have adequate facilities. It would not be hard to rent an appropriate stadium. In Toronto, a club could choose either Lamport or Varsity as a facility that would be perfectly suitable for a CCL match, not to mention BMO. quote:Originally posted by Free kick Canadians and americans take a different views of semi pro and minor pro professional sports. We'll never grow senior soccer in this country (and thus, we will continue to struggle with the same old player development issues in perpetuity) if we don't start to help the lower levels of senior soccer along. It desperately needs a push. Let them into the club, just as they do with the FA Cup and other national cup tournaments, and let's see what comes of it. If the 3 "big" clubs are doing their jobs properly, they have nothing to worry about but it would be a HUGE incentive for the lower levels to have a hope of playing one of the big clubs in a single match elimantor or a home and away aggregate arrangement. By the way, my advocacy for boosting senior soccer is Not intended to just benefit Ontario but rather I think this needs to happen across the country. As a country, we spend so much time and effort on 4 year olds whose parents want a glorified babysitting service when the real focus needs to be on ensuring we have healthy senior soccer because successful senior level soccer is far more important to the success of our country on the international stage than having the best micro soccer programs in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr It would not be hard to rent an appropriate stadium. In Toronto, a club could choose either Lamport or Varsity as a facility that would be perfectly suitable for a CCL match, not to mention BMO. We'll never grow senior soccer in this country (and thus, we will continue to struggle with the same old player development issues in perpetuity) if we don't start to help the lower levels of senior soccer along. It desperately needs a push. Let them into the club, just as they do with the FA Cup and other national cup tournaments, and let's see what comes of it. If the 3 "big" clubs are doing their jobs properly, they have nothing to worry about but it would be a HUGE incentive for the lower levels to have a hope of playing one of the big clubs in a single match elimantor or a home and away aggregate arrangement. By the way, my advocacy for boosting senior soccer is Not intended to just benefit Ontario but rather I think this needs to happen across the country. As a country, we spend so much time and effort on 4 year olds whose parents want a glorified babysitting service when the real focus needs to be on ensuring we have healthy senior soccer because successful senior level soccer is far more important to the success of our country on the international stage than having the best micro soccer programs in the world. Yeah but if FIFA ever starts a u-4 World Cup...man, we're set! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winnipeg Fury Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I don't see the CSL participating before any other semi-pro outfit in Canada. Unless they expand beyond Ontario, they are simply another semi-pro, regional outfit and do not take precedence over other regional/semi-pro formats such as PDL, PCSL, etc....whether certain people feel one league is superior to another is irrelevant, as there is no way to prove it and none are national in scope. Expansion will come in time and the CSA are all for it. I honestly see no clear cut league or club that deserves entry for 2010. If another USL-1 club emerges, they will gain quick entry. An interesting dimension to this picture would be a Canadian USL-2 club. There have been rumours that both Victoria Highlanders and Toronto Lynx are considering a move up to USL-2. This would be a first for Canada and it would be interesting to see if the CSA would deem USL-2 good enough for entry into the Voyageurs Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Until then, why not have the best PDL team play the best CSL team for the honour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 ^ i hate to be a broken record but PDL is never going to be able to be involved in CCL. The league is a 3 month league and the players are gone by August. A PDL team that draws from US college players simply cant get those players back. Whitecaps PDL is an exception, not the rule. I agree with WF that CSL should not be granted automatic entry into CCL. I think that if they wanted to extend a hand to a smaller club who has proven their worth, some form of Open Cup is needed to crown a national senior champion. Simple solution would be for the CSA and provinces to allow semi pro teams to compete in the national championship tournament. The winner of that tournament can acceptt entry into the CCL (or maybe force them to play home and away vs. the 3rd place team from the year before to see which team can be part of the 3 way tournament as it exists now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 So a theoretical structure for a Canadian Open Cup (which I hope they'd keep our name for i.e. The Voyageurs Cup - Open Canadian Championship) could be something along the lines of: Provincial Men's Amateur Champions | | Play off to find the | National Men's Amateur Champion | | Gets added to a mix in the CSL to find the | Entrant to the next year's CCL Canadian finals against the pro clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 ^ I think that is a fair... Another option is that CSL teams register in their provincial senior tournament (Ontario Cup, etc...), just like PCSL teams do now. Trois Rivieres would register in Quebec. If a CSL team qualifies as the rep for Ontario, great...if not, to the victor goes the spoils. The winner of the Men's National Championship earns an opportunity to play 1 game or 2 game (home/away, total score) match vs. the previous year's 3rd place team in V's cup to determin who the 3 teams in V's cup will be. All that needs to happen is for the Provinces and the CSA to drop the requirement for the National Championship to be an amateur tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottawaguy2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Stadium is the word that caught my attention here. How many of these semi pro sides actually play in a stadium type facility as opposed to a field. Lets not forget that Concacaf took action to exclude sides that didn't have adequate facilities. I dont see how included some of the semi pro sides actaully grows the game from the standpoint of fan and commercial interest. Canadians and americans take a different views of semi pro and minor pro professional sports. Teams with adequate facilities would be eligible. Moreover, BMO Field still belongs to Toronto somewhat right? Can a CSL team from Toronto not use that as their home field for CCL playoff games? It's sad but true that lack of proper facilities/stadia may be our next biggest hurdle in growing the beautiful game in Canada. As many posters have said before, what we need is to dot the map with small - mid sized stadiums. Every city over 50,000 should have a 5 - 10 K seat natural grass or FieldTurf stadium. Investors in those cities would then be more willing to spend money on PDL, CSL and USL-2 franchises knowing that they'd have a place to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.