Will the Gold Cup be a proper test for Yallop

[Paddy]

Just wanted to get peoples opinion on what they expect from the Gold Cup this summer.

1. Will this actually be a fair test of Yallop’s ability?

2. If we do well does Yallop stay?

3. Is this tournament really of high enough quality to judge Yallop?

4. Will we be sending a B team, as is thought in the Ireland game, or is the B team really becoming our A team with all the senior players dropping out and/or losing interest?

5. If we do send a B team what real assessment can be made?

6. Wasn’t the 2000 GC team really more of a B team. I seem to remember at least 5 starters missing.

7. Who will be the no shows this summer?

[Cheeta]

I don't believe it was ever written anywhere that sporting tests had to be fair. So yeah, this would be a test of Yallop's abilities. Even if you think it's a bull**** tourny (like me) it's what we got so suck it up and get something positive done.

By positive I mean some sort of winner's medal.

I don't think the results matter. We're in for a few more years of the Frankie Yallop Experience. Sharpe & co. have their cart hitched to that horse for good or bad.

This years tourny might not be so 2nd rate as far as players available are concearned. And even if it is if the CSA makes it a priority, something which we can get a positive result from after the WCQ debacle that's enough for me. The MNT has to be seen bouncing back and as it's likely the tourny will be broadcast in it's entirety the Gold Cup must be used to full advantage.

Could be a real shot in the CSAs arm. A good Gold Cup run and some nice results from Holland this summer. Wouldn't make anyone forget the WCQs but it might help them start looking forward again.

As to the rest, well that'll take a bit more of a think.

[Elias]

quote:Originally posted by Paddy

Just wanted to get peoples opinion on what they expect from the Gold Cup this summer.

1. Will this actually be a fair test of Yallop’s ability?

No.

This tournament is going to be a complete joke this year. The Mexican's will probably send their C team, as their B team will be in Germany in June for the Confederations Cup. They might send their U20 team as punnishment, I mean to prepare for the next Olympics.

The US will probably send their C team, as it doesn't make any sense for them to risk injuring anybody, nor does it make any sense to take more players away from MLS. They can't send their U20 which plays in the WYC in June.

The South Americans always send B teams, didn't Brazil send an U20 team last time?

I don't understand what the point of this tournament is?

[Soju]

So Canada can win it sometimes and we fans can tell our friends who don't follow the sport that our team's not completely crap afterall.

[Grizzly]

It is not a fair test of his abilities but it is the best we test we have. In all probability the Gold Cup will be favourable to Yallop's chances, ie. we may be missing a few players but will probably have more of an A team than any of the CONCACAF sides still in the Hex. My biggest worry is that he will perform well in the far lesser competition level of the Gold Cup but still not be adequate for WCQ when small mistakes in tactics and player selection could cost us dearly. To be clear I am not hoping he fails in Gold Cup, if he does well and this is an indication of improving coaching skills that then realize their potential in WCQ I will be happy. If there is no improvement in his performance by the end of the Gold Cup he should definitely be let go as he will have had more than enough time to prove himself.

[BrennanFan]

We will probably be sending a team similar to belfast, maybe deguz and stalteri will show but i doubt it, both might be needing to consolidate their positions with new clubs. the thing with judging yallop is, his job is to get a team ready for 2008. this is year one of getting his team ready: they are not supposed to be a very good team, they are just beginning to gel, and the core is only in their early 20's. we simply cant expect alot, not even improvement with every game, its going to be an overall improvement over years of playing together.

However, i dont ever want to see Canada be humiliated ever again. those days should be behind us. 2-0 to guatemala, and 3-1 to costa rica at home is what i consider humiliation, and if yallop lets this occur again he should be fired. the gold cup wont be home games so he has some room, but if were losing all our games big, then he should go. in my view, all we can demand of yallop right now is to prevent humiliation, and give the boys time to become a team.

[redhat]

The Gold Cup a sham? Tell that to the Americans who will want

to win the whole thing, on their own soil. Tell that to South Africa

who, as guests, will want to test their WCQ teams. Same with Mexico.

Anytime Mexico, Costa Rica, T&T, send any team (A,B,C or U20) and

offer a poor result will also cast strong doubt on their coach.

It's unfathomable for most countries to lose to Canada, so they will

bring it. The South Koreans brought their A- team in 2002 and

made huge adjustments after losing the 3rd-place game to Canada. Look

what happened to them in WC2002.

The only exception is Brazil, who brought their B and U20 teams in

the past. They are Brazil, by the way.

As for it to be a test for Yallop, why not? Quite a few Voyageurs

have been asking for his head, maybe it's his chance to show otherwise. If Osieck lost his job after an awful GC2003, it should

apply as well this year.

Oh, and we won't send a B team to this Gold Cup.

[Gordon]

I think it is a test although ultimately, I don't believe it will be the course final. IMO, Frank needs to show what he can do as a manager in terms of managing a 90 minute game that counts. Frank also needs to indicate up front what the goal is and be evaluated against that goal. If it is his goal to give his 2008 qualifying pool of players a chance to season, then we need to see player selection that supports that. Ibid., if the goal is to finsh in the top 3. Since he has the time, we also need to see that the team is utilizating the tactics and technique he seems to want to bring to the program, but that has yet to be shown to have taken. I am OK with this tournament being used as part of the process, provided real gains are achieved. The worst part of WCQ for me, even more so than the horrendous calls or ultimate outcome, was seeing that every team we played was far more advanced and adept than us in our tactical play.

[Elias]

I don't think Canada will send a B-team. It will be Canada's A-team for 2010 qualifying. Meaning, I doubt the older guys who won't be around will play, but I don't see why all the young guys shouldn't?

South Africa - in a tight race right now in qualifying. But by July, they will have played 8 of 10 matches, so either they will have qualified, or be in big trouble. If there is still a race, then they probably will send their best team to get ready for the last 2 matches.

Mexico - it would make more sense to use the Confederation Cup in June as serious competition. You can't expect the same players at both. At best, they might split their A-team so they can try new players, combinations, etc. After all, the ConCup is just as meaningful as the Gold Cup <roll eyes here>.

quote:Originally posted by redhat

Anytime Mexico, Costa Rica, T&T, send any team (A,B,C or U20) and

offer a poor result will also cast strong doubt on their coach.

It's unfathomable for most countries to lose to Canada, so they will

bring it.

Yeah, and people here want to fire Yallop after beating North Ireland.

"The Gold Cup is the biggest headache on the schedule," Arena says. "We want to be respectful of the confederation championship and put our best team out there and try to win it. However, our focus has to be on World Cup qualifying. Those 10 games are the most important."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/grant_wahl/11/30/us.qualifying/index.html

You tell them.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Paddy

Just wanted to get peoples opinion on what they expect from the Gold Cup this summer.

1. Will this actually be a fair test of Yallop’s ability?

2. If we do well does Yallop stay?

3. Is this tournament really of high enough quality to judge Yallop?

4. Will we be sending a B team, as is thought in the Ireland game, or is the B team really becoming our A team with all the senior players dropping out and/or losing interest?

5. If we do send a B team what real assessment can be made?

6. Wasn’t the 2000 GC team really more of a B team. I seem to remember at least 5 starters missing.

7. Who will be the no shows this summer?

Very good questions. I have a problem with the timing of the Gold Cup. You cannot pick a worst time to hold this event given that the Concacaf Hex qualification matches will have been in full swing. I cannot imagine any of the contending sides treating it any different than a friendly. Therefore what significance or conclusion will we be able to draw from our results at the GC? Very little IMO. If we win it all, it will be tainted and some will say that no one took it seriously. Then there is the problem of who will be motivated to partake in this event after a long season with their clubs and the fact that many of the players in their late 20's will question the value of partaking knowing that by WCQ 2010, they will be too old for the squad. In which case, will it be the best possible team that Yallop will have at his disposal? So if we do poorly, will it really be a proper assessment or true test of Yallop?

I would prefer to see Yallop judged on the following criteria:

1) Principally results in WCQ.

2) Principally quality of play the rest of the time in the years leading up to WCQ.

[Alex]

Paddy, I have a question to what you are calling a "B Team" because that team in N. Ireland was not a B team. A B team is the team that played Millwall and Hearts in Vancouver last year. So to answer your question, no it will not be a B team in the gold cup. I believe it will probably be the same guys plus Stalteri and DeGuz because im sure they have always shown up to play in the gold cup. But of course Radzinski and Devos will definitely not be there.

I believe Yallop will stay even if we do poorly. By poorly I mean, only winning one game. We all know if we do poorly it will be because we will not have our best players. If our best guys show up and we completely stink out the place, then I would be in favour of Yallop going.

By sending a B team, no real assessment can be made because they will not be the guys who will be there for WCQ 2010.

[Natesta]

quote:Originally posted by Alex

Paddy, I have a question to what you are calling a "B Team" because that team in N. Ireland was not a B team. A B team is the team that played Millwall and Hearts in Vancouver last year. So to answer your question, no it will not be a B team in the gold cup. I believe it will probably be the same guys plus Stalteri and DeGuz because im sure they have always shown up to play in the gold cup. But of course Radzinski and Devos will definitely not be there.

I believe Yallop will stay even if we do poorly. By poorly I mean, only winning one game. We all know if we do poorly it will be because we will not have our best players. If our best guys show up and we completely stink out the place, then I would be in favour of Yallop going.

By sending a B team, no real assessment can be made because they will not be the guys who will be there for WCQ 2010.

He wouldn't even play our best players for WCQ!

Sorry, I do not think it's time to fire him yet... yes I think the Gold Cup will be his litnis test, and unfortunatly I do not have much confidence any more.

The test of Yallops abilities has already begun, and so far he is failing.. sorry, but unlike many of you my rose coloured glasses have fallen off.

[Gian-Luca]

The problem with the upcoming Gold Cup is that its not just at a bad time for the teams in the Hex, its at a lousy time for us as well. I bet we will not see half of our best players available for the Gold Cup - even those like Occean, Hutchinson, Bernier, etc may be unavailable as they are in mid-season.

Nevertheless Yallop should be judged by it. We have enough depth that we should be able to send a quality squad, and after being together for some time Yallop should be able to mold that team together. If they don't play to their capabilities, it will be difficult to argue that he should be left in the job. Its one thing for players who haven't played in months & haven't played together before to not play cohesively on the road, but its another thing for a squad that will likely have a decent preparation camp to do so.

What results can we expect - we have to strive for positive ones. We have to go far, whatever it takes I want to see us do well. If everyone else is at full strength & we are not maybe there's an excuse not to do well in the tourney, but I don't think that will be the case.

[Gian-Luca]

The problem with the upcoming Gold Cup is that its not just at a bad time for the teams in the Hex, its at a lousy time for us as well. I bet we will not see half of our best players available for the Gold Cup - even those like Occean, Hutchinson, Bernier, etc may be unavailable as they are in mid-season.

Nevertheless Yallop should be judged by it. We have enough depth that we should be able to send a quality squad, and after being together for some time Yallop should be able to mold that team together. If they don't play to their capabilities, it will be difficult to argue that he should be left in the job. Its one thing for players who haven't played in months & haven't played together before to not play cohesively on the road, but its another thing for a squad that will likely have a decent preparation camp to do so.

What results can we expect - we have to strive for positive ones. We have to go far, whatever it takes I want to see us do well. If everyone else is at full strength & we are not maybe there's an excuse not to do well in the tourney, but I don't think that will be the case.

[matthew]

quote:Originally posted by Paddy

1. Will this actually be a fair test of Yallop’s ability?

No. Mid-hex, this will largely be a chance for those six teams to try out some fringe players or send a complete B team or a U23 side.

2. If we do well does Yallop stay?

This pre-supposes that if we stinks Yallop's gone. We can debate yallop on here all we want, but I believe in the CSA's eyes it will take something catastrophic to cost Yallop his job in the next four/five years. I don't think a few losses at this tournament is catastrophic enough. Simply put, no matter what happens at the Gold Cup I think Yallop's job is safe.

3. Is this tournament really of high enough quality to judge Yallop?

It could be, since it should feature the teams we need to beat to achieve our goals of getting to the World Cup. I don;t think it will be this year.

4. Will we be sending a B team, as is thought in the Ireland game, or is the B team really becoming our A team with all the senior players dropping out and/or losing interest?

I think we'll send more of an A team, but I think DeVos is going to take a year off. Radzinski is probably done as well. And yes the likes of Serioux, Gervais, Bernier, etc are probably becomming fixtures and will be part of most of the squads for the next little while at least.

5. If we do send a B team what real assessment can be made?

Well since most other teams are going to be sending B teams, we couldn't evalutate much with our A team either. I think we just need to look at as many players as possible and maybe mix a few new faces into the team for the Gold Cup and give Frank a better idea heading into the 05/06 Euro season where we'll hopefully have more high profile friendlies.

6. Wasn’t the 2000 GC team really more of a B team. I seem to remember at least 5 starters missing.

It was and it wasn't. Bircham, Dasovic and Bent were all hurt IIRC. Radzinski and Parker never showed up. Pesch and Xausa both picked up injuries and were unavailable for the final. But what this did was allow other players to really come into their own. Brennan and Stalteri both had great tournaments. Kusch, Clarke and Fenwick (yes Fenwick, he had a great final IMO, doing well to win the corner that led to the first goal) all established themselves in the team (for better or for worse).

So even if we don't have our best, there's no reason some unknown guys can't make an impression.

7. Who will be the no shows this summer?

I would say Radzinski, DeVos possibly Nsaliwa depending. It's probably too early to say. If someone is moving to a new club and is being pressured into going to summer training (say DeGuzman), they may opt to skip it. But it's pretty tough to even guess that now. And yes like G-L says the Scandanavians are in mid-season, but so are the MLS players and I expect them to be there, so we'll see.

I like the Gold Cup and hope we do well, but asside from it being our confed championship I don't really think there's going to be a whole lot of value from the tournament, but I guess we'll have to see that a little later.

cheers,

matthew

[Paddy]

quote:Originally posted by Alex

Paddy, I have a question to what you are calling a "B Team" because that team in N. Ireland was not a B team.

Some people on this board referred to the team that played NI as our B team. I personally am not sure what to think about that particular version.

quote:Originally posted by Alex

We all know if we do poorly it will be because we will not have our best players.

Not to be a smart ass, but doesn't what you wrote constitute a B team?

quote:Originally posted by Alex

A B team is the team that played Millwall and Hearts in Vancouver last year. So to answer your question, no it will not be a B team in the gold cup.

Some of the players that played against Millwall are also first team players, so a B team can contain both levels.

Overall I am just asking for opinions, I am not passing them. It is just to stimulate discussion.

[Paddy]

quote:Originally posted by matthew

1. Will this actually be a fair test of Yallop’s ability?

No. Mid-hex, this will largely be a chance for those six teams to try out some fringe players or send a complete B team or a U23 side.

2. If we do well does Yallop stay?

This pre-supposes that if we stinks Yallop's gone. We can debate yallop on here all we want, but I believe in the CSA's eyes it will take something catastrophic to cost Yallop his job in the next four/five years. I don't think a few losses at this tournament is catastrophic enough. Simply put, no matter what happens at the Gold Cup I think Yallop's job is safe.

3. Is this tournament really of high enough quality to judge Yallop?

It could be, since it should feature the teams we need to beat to achieve our goals of getting to the World Cup. I don;t think it will be this year.

4. Will we be sending a B team, as is thought in the Ireland game, or is the B team really becoming our A team with all the senior players dropping out and/or losing interest?

I think we'll send more of an A team, but I think DeVos is going to take a year off. Radzinski is probably done as well. And yes the likes of Serioux, Gervais, Bernier, etc are probably becomming fixtures and will be part of most of the squads for the next little while at least.

5. If we do send a B team what real assessment can be made?

Well since most other teams are going to be sending B teams, we couldn't evalutate much with our A team either. I think we just need to look at as many players as possible and maybe mix a few new faces into the team for the Gold Cup and give Frank a better idea heading into the 05/06 Euro season where we'll hopefully have more high profile friendlies.

6. Wasn’t the 2000 GC team really more of a B team. I seem to remember at least 5 starters missing.

It was and it wasn't. Bircham, Dasovic and Bent were all hurt IIRC. Radzinski and Parker never showed up. Pesch and Xausa both picked up injuries and were unavailable for the final. But what this did was allow other players to really come into their own. Brennan and Stalteri both had great tournaments. Kusch, Clarke and Fenwick (yes Fenwick, he had a great final IMO, doing well to win the corner that led to the first goal) all established themselves in the team (for better or for worse).

So even if we don't have our best, there's no reason some unknown guys can't make an impression.

7. Who will be the no shows this summer?

I would say Radzinski, DeVos possibly Nsaliwa depending. It's probably too early to say. If someone is moving to a new club and is being pressured into going to summer training (say DeGuzman), they may opt to skip it. But it's pretty tough to even guess that now. And yes like G-L says the Scandanavians are in mid-season, but so are the MLS players and I expect them to be there, so we'll see.

I like the Gold Cup and hope we do well, but asside from it being our confed championship I don't really think there's going to be a whole lot of value from the tournament, but I guess we'll have to see that a little later.

cheers,

matthew

Excellent answers, by the way.

[The Beaver]

The Gold Cup seems such a poorly timed, poorly regarded tournament by a good many of the teams in CONCACAF, that I can't help but think it should be replaced by a U17 tournament or something along those lines. Or, it should be renamed the Bronze Cup, or The Pewter Cup, so that we can all send lesser squads and still get jazzed to see our teams play. (Actually, I don't think that makes any sense.)

[RJB]

It's a continental tournament, much like the Copa America, and the European Cup, however it lacks the prestige. Maybe that is because they still haven't announced the 2nd invitee?

In my opinion, the CONCACAF website needs to be revamped so that there can be more exposure to the region. Ever try to find anything on that site?

It

looks second rate, and that is how we are treated in the international community.

They need to get organised, so that teams can plan. How can Yallop prepare for this tournament when he still doesn't know who he'll play against? They need to start acting like a real orgninazation.

[SABuffalo786]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

Tell that to the Americans who will want

to win the whole thing

The C team Americans.

This is a serious and unnecessary distraction from the Hexagonal. I'd like to see it ended or seriously reformed and converted to a four year tourney a la the Euros.

Hey CONCACAF, come back and talk to us when you hold this tournament out of respect for the game, not money.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

The Gold Cup a sham? Tell that to the Americans who will want

to win the whole thing, on their own soil. Tell that to South Africa

who, as guests, will want to test their WCQ teams. Same with Mexico.

Anytime Mexico, Costa Rica, T&T, send any team (A,B,C or U20) and

offer a poor result will also cast strong doubt on their coach.

It's unfathomable for most countries to lose to Canada, so they will

bring it. The South Koreans brought their A- team in 2002 and

made huge adjustments after losing the 3rd-place game to Canada. Look

what happened to them in WC2002.

The only exception is Brazil, who brought their B and U20 teams in

the past. They are Brazil, by the way.

As for it to be a test for Yallop, why not? Quite a few Voyageurs

have been asking for his head, maybe it's his chance to show otherwise. If Osieck lost his job after an awful GC2003, it should

apply as well this year.

Oh, and we won't send a B team to this Gold Cup.

Agreed.

Canada will send their best team and I expect every other CONCACAF country to do the same.

[The Ref]

The Gold Cup is certainly a test, but is just that, a Cup won or lost against some national sides who may or may not be the top teams. In any event I don't believe that the CSA will alter Yallop's contract based on the outcome of the GC one way or the other.

I personally would like to judge Frank in his ability to maintain a consistent FIFA ranking amongst the top 30 teams in the world. Plus a regained respect and prestige for Canadian soccer amongst the rest of the world. I would also look possitively to Franks effort and contributions to establish a Pro League.

[FC Beast]

quote:Originally posted by The Ref

The Gold Cup is certainly a test, but is just that, a Cup won or lost against some national sides who may or may not be the top teams. In any event I don't believe that the CSA will alter Yallop's contract based on the outcome of the GC one way or the other.

I personally would like to judge Frank in his ability to maintain a consistent FIFA ranking amongst the top 30 teams in the world. Plus a regained respect and prestige for Canadian soccer amongst the rest of the world. I would also look possitively to Franks effort and contributions to establish a Pro League.

Canada needs to start winning with a bit of style, if they lose while

playing better football so be it, but no more games like the one in,

Belfast, that was terrible.Canada needs to gets it's own Canada cup tournament going again, bringing in teams that:

a) put fans in the seats

are exciting (brazil,holland,sweden,etc.)

[Loud Mouth Soup]

Brazil and Holland, even Sweden? Yeah, that'll happen instantly, beast.

Do you drink heavily before coming on here?

[Dante79]

this tournament is a joke!