Cheeta Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 23 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: If $500k on ancillaries is net income, Cheeta, bear in mind revenue on that will be higher before expenses are deducted. Concessions, booze, parking, they were all internalized by WFC a couple-three years ago. WFC will bear the expense of these operations. The ancillary payment to Valour would be revenue only. Hopefully delivered to Valour's Executive Board Room in a very large cotton sack with an equally large black "$" drawn on the side of it. So, still wondering where the remaining $1M in revenue came from. Sure there is some local sponsorship money but can't be anything to get too excited about. Yet. Have it in my head that I read somewhere the league keeps the vast majority of league sponsorship money, including shirt sponsor revenue so probably not a lot, if anything, trickling down from CanPL HQ to the individual clubs. So the remainder HAS to be broadcast money and merch. I'd guess Valour's core support is around 4,000 strong and you get an average $150 or so of merch to each of them that puts you roughly at $600K. Just using the core as calculator along with the $150 because its easy to see those averages being close to true even if you add outside sales to the bulk number. Outside sales to casuals I suspect would be for more lower ticket items so even in volume they wouldn't move the needle too much. So $400K or so from OneSoccer. Which feels high for all the gazillion of rumours which have floated around the last couple of years, but maybe not too far off the mark. Trim a little off because I underestimate merch and local sponsorship and its easy to get to bring it down to $250K-$300K. See Bundesliga didn't forget about VAR during the break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 43 minutes ago, Cheeta said: Concessions, booze, parking, they were all internalized by WFC a couple-three years ago. WFC will bear the expense of these operations... That's a big assumption to make. According to the bottom half of the accounts page there appears to have been a payment from Valour to WFC of 470k or so for their management of the CPL "franchise" whatever that implies. Opening a stadium of that size for a game is expensive and won't be happening for free as an expense for the Bombers. Revisiting some of your assumptions where are you getting the $1.5 million number from for ticket receipts? Would 4500 × 15 games × $30 = $2,025,000 be an outlandish assumption on that given the level of season ticket sales we were told was happening and the initial run of very impressive looking crowds? Never saw anything online about lots of freebies being distributed in Winnipeg unlike with the Forge and Y9. Throw in $500k on game day net income and there's not a lot left to explain at that point under operations. The 500 lb gorilla in the room is what the $2,101,491 in liabilities is all about that is somewhat offset by $1,652,241 in assets. I suspect that's where CSB and league related cash flows start to enter the picture, but there's not enough detail provided to be sure. Agree that league sponsor money will be largely drained away by paying for league office operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Cheeta said: . I'd guess Valour's core support is around 4,000 strong and you get an average $150 or so of merch to each of them that puts you roughly at $600K. Just using the core as calculator along with the $150 because its easy to see those averages being close to true even if you add outside sales to the bulk number. Outside sales to casuals I suspect would be for more lower ticket items so even in volume they wouldn't move the needle too much. Thats a decent estimate but your missing all the hardcores not in WPG, that cant get to more than a handful of games. My tickets didnt move the needle, but 2 jerseys, 4 tshirts, 2 scarves, 2 hats, toques, mugs, key chains etc etc might have, I blew almost 500 on merch, much of it before I saw a game. Granted, I wont do that this year, but merch might be a bigger chunk of income than you might think. If Mr parrot could read he would see we averaged 5300, where does he come up with 4500?? His usual low balling to make everything look shitty?? I'm not sure what an average ticket price would be, working in season tickets, ticket discounts etc, but bottom line, they had a small loss on their own, while helping the WFC/owners keep their stadium/infrastructure busy most of the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: That's a big assumption to make. According to the bottom half of the accounts page there appears to have been a payment from Valour to WFC of 470k or so for their management of the CPL "franchise" whatever that implies. ... Revisiting some of your assumptions where are you getting the $1.5 million number from for ticket receipts? Would 4500 × 15 games × $30 = $2,025,000 be an outlandish assumption on that given the level of season ticket sales we were told was happening .... No assumption at all. Matter of public record. All the FS from the previous years are readily available and it shouldn't be too hard to find if you want the reasoning as to why WFC went that direction (ie for their own financial benefit). Venue managment business' look after the business of managing venue logistics. Promoter gets a kick back on ancillary sales scaled on volume. Not a new concept. Simple, clean, and I've been told it's been common practice through out North America for decades. No, no idea what the actual gate revenue is. Majority of seats sold are in the middle, low, cost bracket. Might be higher, might be lower. Just guessing but $1.5M seemed reasonable. Valour had two major "give away" schemes in 2019, each STH got a single bonus ticket voucher (some used, some not) and there was a "worthy cause" fixture where tickets (2,000?) were made available to certain charitable organizations. There was also a running promtion with WYSA and there was also tiered pricing for students. Not a ton of tickets to be sure but enough no-cost/low cost sales to pull down the averages to my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Bison44 said: Thats a decent estimate but your missing all the hardcores not in WPG, that cant get to more than a handful of games. My tickets didnt move the needle, but 2 jerseys, 4 tshirts, 2 scarves, 2 hats, toques, mugs, key chains etc etc might have, I blew almost 500 on merch, much of it before I saw a game. Granted, I wont do that this year, but merch might be a bigger chunk of income than you might think. If Mr parrot could read he would see we averaged 5300, where does he come up with 4500?? ... Yeah, the merch is really hard to guess. Was really popular. We dropped at least $600 last season. This year would have been just as bad but there are a lot of people in the grandstands who aren't wearing trackies or the team kit. They have the inaugral season scarf and maybe a tee, that's it. $40 does not $150 make. Just a hunch but I suspect the margins on the Macron stuff is crazy good. The fact almost every other team in the league was giving their shirts away kind of has me suspicious part of the sponsorship deal with Macron includes very favourable wholesale pricing to the league and the clubs. That and I have it on good authority the Bombers brass were gob-smacked with the Macron deal. LOL. I used 4,400 for my arithmatic but as it wasn't a very scientific exercise I'm not too concerned. Just having some fun. Regardless, match day revenue accounts for least 2/3 of income. Doubt very many people would be surprised by that. Bison44 and johnyb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Cheeta said: ...Not a ton of tickets to be sure but enough no-cost/low cost sales to pull down the averages to my mind. That was my thinking in using 4500 rather than 5300. There's always going to be some generous group sales and/or comp tickets to get people in to sample the product with a startup like the Valour and those count in a tickets distributed announced attendance number. On the flip side, the season ticket base seems to have been very healthy for year one and the prices involved were surprisingly high, so they would still have been generating plenty of revenue on no shows when actual as opposed to announced crowds dipped noticeably later in the season. It's too bad they didn't reveal season ticket numbers in these accounts. The renewal rate on that will be the critical factor moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 This is starting to remind me of last year..didnt Gale tease 3 signings he was going to announce?? Stop with the PR baloney and just tell us who is coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top cheese Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 10 hours ago, Bison44 said: This is starting to remind me of last year..didnt Gale tease 3 signings he was going to announce?? Stop with the PR baloney and just tell us who is coming in. I think the only question mark is a CF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Gale said almost 2 weeks ago, they were bringing in 3 more players that had been in CPL last year... Meanwhile.....has everyone got their Valour mask?? https://valourfc.canpl.ca/article/valour-fc-to-donate-partial-proceeds-from-cloth-masks-sales-to-winnipeg-harvest johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) https://canpl.ca/article/valours-daryl-fordyce-on-taking-irish-sabbatical-over-staying-in-edmonton-its-not-gonna-work-now Edited May 24, 2020 by Ozzie_the_parrot T_Bison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_Bison Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 What does everyone think about the rumour that they're going to do a single venue "season" (whatever that looks like) at IGF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Skeptical on it being a full season in a single venue. Think they are likely to prefer a short single site tournament as a warm up to an abbreviated fall season along the lines of the shared Dominican Republic training camp last year. Suspect they have no clear idea yet (see the tweet from the players association) and a lot of what we are seeing is mainly a case of reminding people of the league's existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 2 hours ago, T_Bison said: What does everyone think about the rumour that they're going to do a single venue "season" (whatever that looks like) at IGF? I think it might have some traction, I think it was Spursflu floating the idea of starting with the V's cup. Have the first rounds at a central location, or two (WPG/Hamilton etc). Work out some kinks and hopefully get a partial season in after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) Did we all already know that Matt Silva (2019 York9 backup keeper) is with Valour this year? Edited May 26, 2020 by jonovision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 50 minutes ago, jonovision said: Did we all already know that Matt Silva (2019 York9 backup keeper) is with Valour this year? No. johnyb and T_Bison 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 1 hour ago, jonovision said: Did we all already know that Matt Silva (2019 York9 backup keeper) is with Valour this year? Was this on twitter? Gayle promised 3 signings that had been in CPL last year, that sounds like one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_Bison Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 16 minutes ago, Bison44 said: Was this on twitter? Gayle promised 3 signings that had been in CPL last year, that sounds like one of them. News to me as well - I figured Farago was a lock to return to be the vet backup to Pantermis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 5 hours ago, T_Bison said: News to me as well - I figured Farago was a lock to return to be the vet backup to Pantermis I could be wrong, but it came up in a twitter conversation I was having about that Artemenko kid having some kind of outburst on instagram. For what it's worth, Silva is listed as a Valour player on Transfermarkt. (Farago listed at same site as 'Without club') Click on the tweet to see the threaded conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Any links to the instagram meltdown?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 17 minutes ago, Bison44 said: Any links to the instagram meltdown?? All I could find is this post, which seems pretty tame: Perhaps there was something more incendiary in an Instagram story. Bison44 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Wasnt he on trial in Ukraine?? On one of his tik tok videos he says Ukraine was "heartbreaking". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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