CPL General

[Gopherbashi]

34 minutes ago, Kent said:

I really wish I could like this. I am going to have to try to ignore it because when I read this it looks like next week they are going to announce the league is starting in June next year. But past experience has me assuming next week will come and go with no new information and we will have to tell ourselves that the big week was probably about something behind the scenes and then we will think maybe June will be when we find out about the teams and start year of the first season and then possibly have to readjust again when we don't get that news next June.

They're going to have a meeting to talk about how behind on their plans they all are.

I have no special insight but you heard it here first.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

They could finally hire a GM for the Hamilton team or the league could announce some provisional franchises (Surrey, Saskatoon, K/W and Halifax would get them up to six). Plenty of things like that have been kept in reserve for when the troops start to get a little restless, due to lack of progress. Suspect they also see the build up to MLS Cup as an important time to get some column inches given people who normally don't pay too much attention will be tuning into what is happening in domestic pro soccer.

15 hours ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

I like the fact that the CPL has kept things quiet...

They haven't really kept it quiet. There was a lot of hoopla about the May 5th sanctioning announcement and official website launch and more recently they weren't shy about making sure their name was attached to the Surrey stadium proposal, for example. The Canadian sports media's indifference to soccer has led to the outcome you describe more than anything else.

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Soefeia]

3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Plenty of things like that have been kept in reserve for when the troops start to get a little restless, due to lack of progress.

If I knew as little of what's going on as you clearly do, I would spend much more time asking questions rather than making statements like this. Casting doubt on a process that you don't understand, and likely don't have the resume to play the tiniest role in, is yet another example of your schtick now, isn't it. 

To be fair, much of the cheerleading on here isn't much more accurate. But you seem to have a particularly large chip on your shoulder as if it's more important to prove the thesis that everyone in Canadian soccer is useless rather than to improve Canadian soccer. By framing it the way you have of course, you've given yourself an opening to now characterize any positive upcoming announcement as a negative one. 

And I predict you'll do exactly that. When they announce the league you won't give CPL and their owners credit for building a business plan, building legal documents from scratch, building the necessary league standards, finding willing ownership groups who not only share the league's very high goals and philosophy, are willing to invest rather large sums of money at considerable risk, but who would also agree on all of the details in the various documents I outlined above. You instead will criticize things for your own mostly imaginary reasons. 

The task is mammoth. Yet you think it even occurs to them to save some information releases for when the 'troops get a little restless.' I assure you, this is not the case, and you're a fool if you think so. 

[BuzzAndSting]

19 hours ago, Ansem said:

This nitpicking is ridiculous.

 

18 hours ago, Ansem said:

Yeah it's on CPL website. But who released that statement to the press? The CSA or CPL?

 

[dyslexic nam]

2 hours ago, Soefeia said:

If I knew as little of what's going on as you clearly do, I would spend much more time asking questions rather than making statements like this. Casting doubt on a process that you don't understand, and likely don't have the resume to play the tiniest role in, is yet another example of your schtick now, isn't it. 

To be fair, much of the cheerleading on here isn't much more accurate. But you seem to have a particularly large chip on your shoulder as if it's more important to prove the thesis that everyone in Canadian soccer is useless rather than to improve Canadian soccer. By framing it the way you have of course, you've given yourself an opening to now characterize any positive upcoming announcement as a negative one. 

And I predict you'll do exactly that. When they announce the league you won't give CPL and their owners credit for building a business plan, building legal documents from scratch, building the necessary league standards, finding willing ownership groups who not only share the league's very high goals and philosophy, are willing to invest rather large sums of money at considerable risk, but who would also agree on all of the details in the various documents I outlined above. You instead will criticize things for your own mostly imaginary reasons. 

The task is mammoth. Yet you think it even occurs to them to save some information releases for when the 'troops get a little restless.' I assure you, this is not the case, and you're a fool if you think so. 

I think you are my favourite person ever.  

Mom is now #2.

[Soefeia]

16 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I think you are my favourite person ever.  

Mom is now #2.

Is this sarcasm? Of course I'm not taking 'favourite person ever' literally, but speaking more generally it's very difficult to interpret people's text, hence the reason I'm asking. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by Soefeia

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

He appears to like you because you criticized what I had written and it's his slightly over the top way of expressing appreciation for that.

[dyslexic nam]

Sarcasm insofar as you haven't actually dislodged my mom from top spot.  

Not sarcasm insofar as you seem to have a knack for communicating precisely how I feel about BBTB's posts, tone, and tactics when it comes to CPL.

 

 

 

[Pat Carrasco]

Something is going to happen this week. Something wonderful! Paul Beirne you bastard stop playing games with my head. You tell me right now what's going to happen. I can't take this shit anymore. ?

[dyslexic nam]

Seriously.  There have been too many "stay tuned" announcements for the current state of info.  My hopes can only get elevated and the deflated so many times before they become permanently flaccid.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Think a few pop-up stadium deals have to be fully sorted out before you could get the type of announcement you probably crave. There are three of those that are in progress to some extent in Halifax, Saskatoon and Surrey and there has been talk of something happening in Kitchener as well. If there were ten potentially interested groups in total and four of the ten were Edmonton, Winnipeg, Hamilton and Ottawa, there's two more that have yet to be fully identified. That's more likely to be because they are not so far along as the others, but the best case scenario for a 2019 launch would be that they are actually markets with ready to go stadium solutions with Calgary being the prime suspect on that.

[Soefeia]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

Sarcasm insofar as you haven't actually dislodged my mom from top spot.  

Not sarcasm insofar as you seem to have a knack for communicating precisely how I feel about BBTB's posts, tone, and tactics when it comes to CPL.

 

 

 

Thanks for the explanation. 

For me, this is only about personalities insofar as personality's effect on truth, representation, and communication. I am not particularly interested in getting into personal battles regardless of how blunt or critical I have been. However, living in an age of misinformation where people take their gut instinct as fact, it is important to challenge people regularly lest they begin to dominate the discourse. 

[Soefeia]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

Seriously.  There have been too many "stay tuned" announcements for the current state of info.  My hopes can only get elevated and the deflated so many times before they become permanently flaccid.

I am very sympathetic to this. However, I think it may have been less heart rending for people to have realized the following:

1. If you have been following what Paul Beirne has said, you will have noticed that he has been incredibly careful about what he's said. From what I can tell, and I believe I've read or listened to everything that he has said on the subject, he has not yet misspoken. So far, you can take him entirely at his word. So when he says they are evaluating ownership groups over the next 60 to 90 days it does not mean that an announcement will follow. So if you got all charged up and excited and then felt let down and betrayed in September, you have only yourself to blame. 

2. There are a couple good journalistic sources and a couple blogger types who are close to the action, intelligent about what they write and what they don't write, and who have been more trustworthy than others. However, you should be casting a critical eye at what they have said and not pick out that which supports your hope while discarding what does not. Everyone must admit that the last bit is way too prevalent around these parts, and most if not all have been guilty at one point or another. 

3. You should beware any information from anyone who does not systematically independently confirm the information they are reporting with at least one other source. Famously, that is what kicked a lot of this off now was it not?

4. Information is very often compromised when the individual reporting it is trying to get an 'in' or takes critiques as personal attacks. 

I am well aware that the above points are difficult to realize in the moment. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

12 minutes ago, Soefeia said:

...So if you got all charged up and excited and then felt let down and betrayed in September, you have only yourself to blame...

It's certainly true that people need to listen to what is actually being said and written more carefully than they do and avoid confirmation bias, but I think on the flip side that it was actually quite reasonable for people on here to infer what many/most did from the 60 to 90 days thing as being the probable preferred outcome at the time and that Paul Beirne and others could have done quite a bit more than they did to temper people's expectations, if that was not particularly likely to happen.  

[matty]

32 minutes ago, Soefeia said:

I am very sympathetic to this. However, I think it may have been less heart rending for people to have realized the following:

1. If you have been following what Paul Beirne has said, you will have noticed that he has been incredibly careful about what he's said. From what I can tell, and I believe I've read or listened to everything that he has said on the subject, he has not yet misspoken. So far, you can take him entirely at his word. So when he says they are evaluating ownership groups over the next 60 to 90 days it does not mean that an announcement will follow. So if you got all charged up and excited and then felt let down and betrayed in September, you have only yourself to blame. 

2. There are a couple good journalistic sources and a couple blogger types who are close to the action, intelligent about what they write and what they don't write, and who have been more trustworthy than others. However, you should be casting a critical eye at what they have said and not pick out that which supports your hope while discarding what does not. Everyone must admit that the last bit is way too prevalent around these parts, and most if not all have been guilty at one point or another. 

3. You should beware any information from anyone who does not systematically independently confirm the information they are reporting with at least one other source. Famously, that is what kicked a lot of this off now was it not?

4. Information is very often compromised when the individual reporting it is trying to get an 'in' or takes critiques as personal attacks. 

I am well aware that the above points are difficult to realize in the moment. 

The only issue with your logic is a league rep has also delivered incorrect info in the past and has directly said things that counter pb

A lot of what you've said falls apart sadly due to power points mcgrane the sandor leak (pat good to see you back) and even pb is flawed

Edited December 3, 2017 by matty

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

There's also the Regina fan group meeting before the Valencia Cosmos game when people appear to have been told that it was much closer to happening than many people think and the would be Saskatchewan franchise was being self-described as #7. It wasn't just the 60 to 90 day thing back in May that built up the expectation levels where September was concerned.

Edited December 3, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Soefeia]

15 minutes ago, matty said:

The only issue with your logic is a league rep has also delivered incorrect info in the past and has directly said things that counter pb

A lot of what you've said falls apart sadly due to power points mcgrane the sandor leak (pat good to see you back) and even pb is flawed

Which league rep are you referring to, what information was delivered, and to whom? Was the information for public consumption or was it internal? Was it leaked or was it released officially from the CPL? 

Which presentations did McGrane and Sandor leak (please provide links)? 

How is Paul Beirne flawed? Please explain. 

[Soefeia]

20 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It's certainly true that people need to listen to what is actually being said and written more carefully than they do and avoid confirmation bias, but I think on the flip side that it was actually quite reasonable for people on here to infer what many/most did from the 60 to 90 days thing as being the probable preferred outcome at the time and that Paul Beirne and others could have done quite a bit more than they did to temper people's expectations, if that was not particularly likely to happen.  

The language they used at the time was very careful and promised nothing in the way of an announcement. Neither did the language at the Regina event. However, it would have been very easy for Paul Beirne or one of the ownership representatives to make an error and suggest things were further along than they actually were. However, I am not aware of a single case where that has happened. 

I am happy to be shown to be wrong and it is unlikely that I have read everything produced, although I am not aware of anything I have missed. If you have a quote from Paul Beirne, a league representative, or someone from an ownership group that says that there was to be an announcement in 60 to 90 days, please provide it. 

Whether or not the CPL owes you an explanation as to why they have not announced yet is certainly up for debate. I am sure it would have been appreciated but as I alluded to before, with what they are trying to accomplish placating a few people on this message board is not foremost in their thoughts. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

1 minute ago, Soefeia said:

...Whether or not the CPL owes you an explanation as to why they have not announced yet is certainly up for debate...

You have a tendency to misrepresent my arguments as happened with the reserve team thing a few pages back. Can't be bothered searching for it but I have actually pointed out on here in the not too distant past that CanPL doesn't have to say anything officially about why 2018 didn't happen, because Paul Beirne has repeatedly stated that they will only launch when they are ready. As for why it might be a good idea, something to ponder would be that if there were more transparency similar to what Peter Wilt is doing with NISA at the moment there would be less of a niche for what you term "misinformation" and what I would view as being informed speculative guesses.

[matty]

43 minutes ago, Soefeia said:

Which league rep are you referring to, what information was delivered, and to whom? Was the information for public consumption or was it internal? Was it leaked or was it released officially from the CPL? 

Which presentations did McGrane and Sandor leak (please provide links)? 

How is Paul Beirne flawed? Please explain. 

John mcgrane. He's the president of Hamilton's project. The info was on the record info given to Hamilton city council. Mcgrane also has gone against pb version in the media.

Halifax also had their documents released to the public by halifax city council as well. The document was removed later at the request of the group.

Sandor told a v info and the v revealed all of it an named sandor and sandor has yet to deny the info tmk.

Edited December 3, 2017 by matty

[Soefeia]

5 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

You have a tendency to misrepresent my arguments as happened with the reserve team thing a few pages back. Can't be bothered searching for it but I have actually pointed out on here in the not too distant past that CanPL doesn't have to say anything officially about why 2018 didn't happen, because Paul Beirne has repeatedly stated that they will only launch when they are ready. As for why it might be a good idea, something to ponder would be that if there were more transparency similar to what Peter Wilt is doing with NISA at the moment there would be less of a niche for what you term "misinformation" and what I would view as being informed speculative guesses.

Well I must admit you got me there. Using the word 'owed' was an extrapolation from your general tone but was not contained in the meaning of your actual words.  Mea culpa. 

It is a possibility that releasing some more information by now would have been a wiser approach. But erring on the side of caution, especially while dealing with prickly local politicians, might yet prove to be the better strategy on their part.

However, since we are on tendencies, yours is to ignore people's main points and deflect from critiques by focusing on some other minor point. 

One other general point not related directly to you, Blizz, is that groups wanting to use a facility on private land or in a facility already zoned for sports or entertainment have much fewer hoops to jump through in regards to establishing themselves. You have not heard much about some locations simply because they need far fewer permissions. 

[Soefeia]

1 hour ago, matty said:

John mcgrane. He's the president of Hamilton's project. The info was on the record info given to Hamilton city council. Mcgrane also has gone against pb version in the media.

Halifax also had their documents released to the public by halifax city council as well. The document was removed later at the request of the group.

Sandor told a v info and the v revealed all of it an named sandor and sandor has yet to deny the info tmk.

I am not even sure where to start with this. Not only have you not provided any reason for why my logic 'falls apart', you have likely, with the last point, reinforced my point rather than refuted it. I am not convinced you understand my point to be frank. However, I will give a brief response. 

My recollection of what McGrane said and what was reported was that the CPL was targeting 2018. What Paul Beirne has said was that they are targeting 2018 but if they are not ready then it will be 2019. No inconsistency there. 

I have no idea what your point is with the so called 'Halifax Papers' but they were accidentally posted on a publicly accessible City of Halifax website and were not for public consumption. 

If your last point about some Voyageur allegedly getting information from Steven Sandor (Am I correct that he has not confirmed that this information came from him? Am I correct that that information seemed to have been very quickly deleted?) somehow refutes the assertion that you should be careful where you get your information from, it does not. It actually reinforces it. It may turn out to be true, but you should be curious as to why it disappeared so fast. 

[Futballer]

On 5/31/2017 at 11:36 PM, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

I am an expert in the area of sports marketing! Im young! I can't afford to go to many soccer games! And I am arguing on a forum online with a bunch of people i don't know! haha i'll leave it to the professionals...

[matty]

22 minutes ago, Soefeia said:

I am not even sure where to start with this. Not only have you not provided any reason for why my logic 'falls apart', you have likely, with the last point, reinforced my point rather than refuted it. I am not convinced you understand my point to be frank. However, I will give a brief response. 

You're logic was that people excepting 2018 was foolish because of PB never said it but we have have a pair of other confirmed inside sources said 2018 was the goal and one had it's info leaked say launch in July 2018.

22 minutes ago, Soefeia said:

My recollection of what McGrane said and what was reported was that the CPL was targeting 2018. What Paul Beirne has said was that they are targeting 2018 but if they are not ready then it will be 2019. No inconsistency there. 

McGrane has presented a much different version that PB has of what the league itself will be. PB's is smaller scale than McGrane's.

22 minutes ago, Soefeia said:

I have no idea what your point is with the so called 'Halifax Papers' but they were accidentally posted on a publicly accessible City of Halifax website and were not for public consumption. 

Yea that's why it's called a leak. They contained a lot of what appeared to be concrete plan for the 2018 soft launch.

22 minutes ago, Soefeia said:

If your last point about some Voyageur allegedly getting information from Steven Sandor (Am I correct that he has not confirmed that this information came from him? Am I correct that that information seemed to have been very quickly deleted?) somehow refutes the assertion that you should be careful where you get your information from, it does not. It actually reinforces it. It may turn out to be true, but you should be curious as to why it disappeared so fast. 

The V leaked it and named Sandon publicly. Both floated publicly for hours and grained traction both here and on Reddit. It got bad enough that Sandor should have commented because it got far enough. The fact he didn't hurts his cred.

My point on this is not that there is no good sources at the current time from the blogging world. Sandor (who I would say is the best source for FCE news) took a real hit here. Should view that as support for your blog comment somewhat.

BTW we all know why it disappeared. Because the V realised he made a mistake after being told he had fucked out by another user. I believe the quote was "Way to throw him (Sandor) under the bus you fucking idiot"

Edited December 4, 2017 by matty

[Futballer]

I know what `s  the Next  move for the  Canadian Premier League !! Call me