CPL General

[matty]

God the CPL needs to be more active on Twitter. Not revealing things or saying "the new era is here" but just stuff like wishing Canadian soccer players a HBD or a weekly "this day in Canadian soccer history" would be good.

[Gopherbashi]

37 minutes ago, matty said:

God the CPL needs to be more active on Twitter. Not revealing things or saying "the new era is here" but just stuff like wishing Canadian soccer players a HBD or a weekly "this day in Canadian soccer history" would be good.

No, I'd go for revealing things as well.

We're six months out from the last (and only) piece of real official news - the sanctioning of the league and the two teams in Hamilton and Winnipeg.  Everything since then has essentially been either fluff or idle speculation.  It's time for some meat to this thing.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Gopherbashi

[matty]

23 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

No, I'd go for revealing things as well.

We're six months out from the last (and only) piece of real official news - the sanctioning of the league and the two teams in Hamilton and Winnipeg.  Everything since then has essentially been either fluff or idle speculation.  It's time for some meat to this thing.

I just meant in generally they don't have to reveal things about the league every week to maintain a successful growing Twitter account.

[harrycoyster]

12 minutes ago, matty said:

I just meant in generally they don't have to reveal things about the league every week to maintain a successful growing Twitter account.

They could be tweeting "60-90 days" every couple weeks!

[Macksam]

"It's an entertainment product, so nobody should ever be made to feel that they are obligated to support it, if they are not deriving sufficient enjoyment from it to want to keep coming back. MLS has found a way to make the economics work at D1 level to the point that they have games that can draw 20,000+, because the games are well worth watching"

No, they found a way to make it work because they present a polished professional product that mimics something could be major league. The games really aren't well worth watching because if they were, they would have the TV audience to back that up. If NASL clubs from the beginning demanded teams build 20,000 seat soccer specific stadiums and have intense marketing plans that target a whole city's demographic....basically not look like a fly by night operation like most NASL teams have thus far where crappy stadium deals are inked at the last second sometimes, they would be drawing 20,000 plus as well. However, the NASL's history is riddled with things like FC Edmonton hosting games out of Clark or Foote Field, screaming in the process that its an amateur operation. If you treat the product second rate, you pretty much tell the fans to do so in kind.

 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Macksam

[harrycoyster]

9 minutes ago, Macksam said:

The games really aren't well worth watching because if they were, they would have the TV audience to back that up.

I had no idea the quality of a product is directly proportionate to its TV rating! The Big Bang Theory and that Kardashian show are way better than I think they are apparently!

Edited November 27, 2017 by harrycoyster

[ChrisinOrleans]

26 minutes ago, Macksam said:

No, they found a way to make it work because they present a polished professional product that mimics something could be major league. The games really aren't well worth watching because if they were, they would have the TV audience to back that up.

 

You're right. A league featuring a Ballon d'Or winner like Kaka, and internationally renowned superstars like Kaka, Di Vaio, Schweinsteiger, Drogba, Julio Caesar (before he got wrecked in Brazil), David Accam, Giovani Dos Santos, Jon Dos Santos, Dzemali, Ciman, Pirlo, David Villa, Dempsey and Diego Valeri must be minor league. 

The NASL is a completely similar product. It's only the presentation that is different. 

[matty]

21 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

You're right. A league featuring a Ballon d'Or winner like Kaka, and internationally renowned superstars like Kaka, Di Vaio, Schweinsteiger, Drogba, Julio Caesar (before he got wrecked in Brazil), David Accam, Giovani Dos Santos, Jon Dos Santos, Dzemali, Ciman, Pirlo, David Villa, Dempsey and Diego Valeri must be minor league. 

The NASL is a completely similar product. It's only the presentation that is different. 

Indian super league

[Gopherbashi]

2 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

They could be tweeting "60-90 days" every couple weeks!

Seems like the people who are considered reasonably "in the know" are pretty much on that schedule.

[Bison44]

On 11/25/2017 at 11:52 AM, ReedOnTheGrand said:

i remember the start date going from hopefully 2018/maybe 2019 to hopefully 2019. Don't remember it being pushed back twice, hell 2018 was never more than hopefully.

Ummm, didnt the talk really heat up with Rollins in 2014 with a start date 2016/2017??  Then moved to 2018 (to take advantage of WC interest), then now of course 2019.  With the way clubs have been closing in canada in the last year or so by spring they'll be saying maybe 2020.  

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

With the way clubs have been closing in canada

In the USSF system...that's not built for Canada nor had Canada in mind.

[xcalibre]

If anyone legitimately trusts the CSA to run this thing, you have more faith than I do, but I took Fath and Sandor's comments to suggest that FCE had already given up on CanPL. I don't have a solution either, that's why I posited USL as a possibility because it at least represents 18-20 professional opportunities for players that wouldn't otherwise exist in this country

 

EDIT: not for Edmonton, but for teams in general. I used to rage at the CSA for blocking Canadian teams participating in the US pyramid on the premise of an upcoming CanPL, as far as I know it's been happening since 2015 or even earlier

Edited November 27, 2017 by xcalibre

[matty]

Just saw all the Whitecap releases. Between those release, FC Edmonton taking a break and the folding of the SF Deltas, I can't help but feel the CPL has truly taken a knock by failing to deliver for 2018 after years of development.

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, xcalibre said:

If anyone legitimately trusts the CSA to run this thing, you have more faith than I do, but I took Fath and Sandor's comments to suggest that FCE had already given up on CanPL. I don't have a solution either, that's why I posited USL as a possibility because it at least represents 18-20 professional opportunities for players that wouldn't otherwise exist in this country

 

EDIT: not for Edmonton, but for teams in general. I used to rage at the CSA for blocking Canadian teams participating in the US pyramid on the premise of an upcoming CanPL, as far as I know it's been happening since 2015 or even earlier

It's even more naive to believe that the USSF can do better. They aren't interested in Canada. Don't know what it will take for people to understand that once and for all

Edited November 28, 2017 by Ansem

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

If they really weren't interested in Canada they could have refused to sanction any Canadian teams from ever playing in their leagues.

[Ansem]

We don't need the USSF, let's do it ourselves.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

History suggests that we actually have needed them. Are you old enough to remember what happened with the original CSL and why when it collapsed the Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal teams moved over to USSF sanctioning with the CSA's  approval? That's what ultimately led to the three MLS teams, because the CUSL plan subsequently never got anywhere beyond the pizza lunch stage and a long glossy pdf file that is still floating about in cyberspace. As Tom Fath has pointed out, it's far from clear that fully pro soccer on NASL scale budgets is actually sustainable in cities like Edmonton because paid attendance has not been high enough to cover expenses any time it has been tried over the last 20 years or so and eventually the investors get tired of losing into seven figures every year. That makes putting eight stable franchises together without the big three markets a massive challenge. CanPL has done very well to get as far along as they have, but I think the chances of them closing the deal have now dipped south of 50:50 and the reasons for that are self-inflicted to a large extent due to their refusal to work with TFC and the other MLS franchises.

[Ansem]

I won't revisit the CSA sheer incompetence, laziness that handed over Canadian pro and semi-pro soccer to the US. The CSA has been an absentee landlord most of it's history.

As for CPL, all this panic is strange. Bottom line is that no one knows what's going on behind closed doors. They are playing it close to the chest. This forum and it's member seems to over value their importance in the grand scheme of things. Guess what, not having news of the CPL doesn't mean it's going south. It just means that, it isn't time to share information with US, but they have and are sharing it with potential owners, sponsors and municipalities.

We, hardcore fans, we can debate, bitch and complain all we want about CPL, the league already knows they have us and we'll check it out. Their viability is much more intertwined with corporate money and winning over the 90%+ of people who aren't most likely aware that CPL is in the works. Those people is who the league absolutely need to win over, not us, that's already done. So the league will come out when it's fully ready and have done it's due diligence. Sharing news prematurely without being fully ready, meaning being able to answer ALL the questions from the media will make it look amateurish at best to casuals and medias which they absolutely CANNOT afford to do. 

The CSA has all the rights to refuse to work with MLS under their terms. If you think MLS and the 3 clubs are totally acting out of good faith without thinking about their own interests first and foremost, you're willfully being blind.

Then explain to me how CPL surrendering to the almighty 3 clubs fixes our National program. It so easy to be pro USSF and not having to defend that position and explain how status quo or MLS using CPL help Canadian soccer. 

You have the floor BBTB

Explain the following to us:

1-How status quo helps Canadian soccer and avoid us being a laughingstock in 2026 at home infront of the world

2-How CPL being MLS personal farm helps Canadian Soccer, by that I mean making the HEX and actually qualifying like Denmark, Sweden and Iceland just did, not feel good story that we're producing 3 or 4 MLS players a year

GO, Explain, convince us

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Ansem

[matty]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

History suggests that we actually have needed them. Are you old enough to remember what happened with the original CSL and why when it collapsed the Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal teams moved over to USSF sanctioning with the CSA's  approval? That's what ultimately led to the three MLS teams, because the CUSL plan subsequently never got anywhere beyond the pizza lunch stage and a long glossy pdf file that is still floating about in cyberspace. As Tom Fath has pointed out, it's far from clear that fully pro soccer on NASL scale budgets is actually sustainable in cities like Edmonton because paid attendance has not been high enough to cover expenses any time it has been tried over the last 20 years or so and eventually the investors get tired of losing into seven figures every year. That makes putting eight stable franchises together without the big three markets a massive challenge. CanPL has done very well to get as far along as they have, but I think the chances of them closing the deal have now dipped south of 50:50 and the reasons for that are self-inflicted to a large extent due to their refusal to work with TFC and the other MLS franchises.

Under 50/50? Explain please. 50/50 it happens or 50/50 it lasts?

Edited November 28, 2017 by matty

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Already have many times and ditto on the response to the previous post.

[matty]

8 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Already have many times and ditto on the response to the previous post.

so both?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Seeing as you edited that. Less than 50:50 to happen, because they really needed Edmonton and Ottawa to provide two more ready to go franchises that don't need some sort of stadium build.

[matty]

3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Seeing as you edited that. Less than 50:50 to happen, because they really needed Edmonton and Ottawa to provide two more ready to go franchises that don't need some sort of stadium build.

Yea edited it like right after cause it wasn't clear. I'm kind of shocked you'd pick happen but logic here is fair. Survival seems more sketchy to me just because of the scale of this and the model PB has presented so far.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The soft launch in 2018 with a hardcore of six that they were clearly ramping up for with all the office hires would have helped to bolster the arguments for stadium builds in markets like Saskatoon and K/W if it went well and if they had Ottawa and Edmonton on board all they needed was Halifax to close the pop-up deal and either Surrey (Swangard temporarily) or a GTA team (OSA Soccer Centre temporarily) to get the ball rolling.  No Edmonton makes putting an original six together to provide a good first impression considerably more difficult, and no Ottawa on top of that would probably be the coup de grace. The Fury's last statement made it sound like they were still very much on the fence at best and I don't think the CFL to Halifax stuff that has suddenly surfaced will do anything good for pro soccer's prospects there in the short to medium term, because it is the near complete absence of rival summer pro sports in smaller sub-750k type markets that provides a possible niche for a league like CanPL moving forward if they were ever able to get over the initial hurdle and prove it can work.

[matty]

3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The soft launch in 2018 with a hardcore of six that they were clearly ramping up for with all the office hires would have helped to bolster the arguments for stadium builds in markets like Saskatoon and K/W if it went well and if they had Ottawa and Edmonton on board all they needed was Halifax to close the pop-up deal and either Surrey (Swangard temporarily) or a GTA team (OSA Soccer Centre temporarily) to get the ball rolling.  No Edmonton makes putting an original six together to provide a good first impression considerably more difficult, and no Ottawa on top of that would probably be the coup de grace. The Fury's last statement made it sound like they were still very much on the fence at best and I don't think the CFL to Halifax stuff that has suddenly surfaced will do anything good for pro soccer's prospects there in the short to medium term, because it is the near complete absence of rival summer pro sports in smaller sub-750k type markets that provides a possible niche for a league like CanPL moving forward if they were ever able to get over the initial hurdle and prove it can work.

I agree the failure to deliver the soft launch could delay some projects but still 2 teams are a go and others seem to be healthy for 2019. FCE seem to want to see what the league has to offer come 2019 and USL seem to want Fury in CPL.

I don't see the CFL hurting CPL in Halifax at all. Assuming the league runs April to October, it'll have 3 months without CFL to deal with and will likely not have conflicting dates and have a year ahead of the CFL team to build a fanbase. The only real impact is maybe both have to share a stadium.