Roger miller Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 It wasn`t two years ago we said the exact same about Attakora. Had that young man stayed at TFC and kept gaining playing time I bet Nana would be a solid player for TFC right now too, if his attitude was in check. Just sayin. Would you care to expand (or provide examples, sources or even hearsay) on what issues there were with Attakora's attitude? Just sayin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 It wasn`t two years ago we said the exact same about Attakora. Had that young man stayed at TFC and kept gaining playing time I bet Nana would be a solid player for TFC right now too, if his attitude was in check. Just sayin. He might well have been a starter but he also probably would be making a pretty mediocre wage even on a new contract (after 3 years of earning peanuts) while playing on a team willing to pay 390 k to an inferior defender in Eckersley. I am pretty sure Nana was traded for the same reason Aleman and the other young talents left TFC. They were young talented players unwilling to sign away their future for low MLS pay on a team with a manager demanding they do that. Nana's contract was over and he wanted to try his hand in other leagues where he might develop more and get paid better as was his right. It may not have worked out for him in retrospect but if I were in his shoes I would have done the exact same thing at the time. Sometimes you have to take some risks in your career, it looks like it paid off for Aleman but maybe less so for the other guys. Nevertheless, this shows a big problem with MLS' low salaries for many players, it is hard to lock up young talented players if you don't offer them much and the chances of higher salaries in the near future in the league are not that great (like they would be in many European leagues). What bothers me even more is Nana is a prime example of anti-Canadian discrimination in MLS. If he were an American player I am pretty sure he would have found a team by now. San Jose may be demanding significant compensation for his rights but there would be a lot more interested teams in him if he would not take up an international spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger miller Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 From what i hear, the impact are looking for a central defender. Maybe there are just too many Canadians on the Impact right now. And Wahl and Brovski, as we know, are far better players. Can i mention Eckersley in the same paragraph as those guys, or would that be sacrilige? I am sure that they will pay Attakora what he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 From what i hear, the impact are looking for a central defender. Maybe there are just too many Canadians on the Impact right now. And Wahl and Brovski, as we know, are far better players. Can i mention Eckersley in the same paragraph as those guys, or would that be sacrilige? I am sure that they will pay Attakora what he wants. I have stated many times I would be very happy if Nana were to sign with the Impact. Indeed both TFC and the Impact should be interested in signing him. Not sure why neither seem to be not pursuing him unless San Jose is really asking for a lot for his rights. And yes I think Eckersley can be mentioned in the same category as Wahl and Brovsky as far as playing ability goes but he also makes almost 4 times their combined salaries. Nana is no superstar (and in the short term Nesta is a better but probably far more expensive player) but I rate him above any of those three marginal MLS players. It is frustrating that our Canadian teams are not pursuing Canadian players while have too many mediocre overpaid foreigners on their rosters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger miller Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Ok. because, from the game i saw last week, TFC may have scored two of the easiest goal that i have ever seen them score. I saw a back line part like the red sea on the goal by Kouverman and pretty brutal give away that led to the Johnson goal. To mention Eckersley play in negative refrences after that kind of a display is rather puzzling. Is Eckersley over paid? Perhaps......ok i might agree with that. Has he been poor? or should he be a focal point for TFC defensive woes? Certainly not. TFC's defensive problems have been mostly in the middle. He brings a certain element to the team that is needed. Maybe its not saying much, but i cant think of a better RB that TFC has had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I have stated many times I would be very happy if Nana were to sign with the Impact. Indeed both TFC and the Impact should be interested in signing him. Not sure why neither seem to be not pursuing him unless San Jose is really asking for a lot for his rights. And yes I think Eckersley can be mentioned in the same category as Wahl and Brovsky as far as playing ability goes but he also makes almost 4 times their combined salaries. Nana is no superstar (and in the short term Nesta is a better but probably far more expensive player) but I rate him above any of those three marginal MLS players. It is frustrating that our Canadian teams are not pursuing Canadian players while have too many mediocre overpaid foreigners on their rosters. Right. If you have 3 Canadian players on your roster, why not make it worth it, and Attakora is worth it. I agree that he is as good as, or better than the players you have mentioned. I'd really like to know the deal with San Jose myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Ok. because, from the game i saw last week, TFC may have scored two of the easiest goal that i have ever seen them score. I saw a back line part like the red sea on the goal by Kouverman and pretty brutal give away that led to the Johnson goal. To mention Eckersley play in negative refrences after that kind of a display is rather puzzling. Is Eckersley over paid? Perhaps......ok i might agree with that. Has he been poor? or should he be a focal point for TFC defensive woes? Certainly not. TFC's defensive problems have been mostly in the middle. He brings a certain element to the team that is needed. Maybe its not saying much, but i cant think of a better RB that TFC has had. Montreal's defence is in a shambles right now no doubt about that. However, the reason for that is our two starting CBs are both injured which is a bit unusual (plus a keeper who is at times the best in the league and at other times the worst in the league). On the one hand some lack of depth is to be expected in an expansion team. However, that does not excuse Marsch from not getting better quality backup for this position. Thomas is an acceptable backup CB but Wahl is so terrible that Camara was at CB in his place. Camara is really a defensive mid who can play fullback who has good skills going forward but is defensively weak and really should not be at CB. We can make due with one of Ferrari or Rivas playing with either Thomas or Camara but when both are missing our defence really sucks as the following game against DCU also showed. Eckersley for his part has not been very impressive over the course of the year. He hasn't been worse than most of the other defenders TFC has employed but hasn't been better either. He is basically a decent backup/sometimes starter RB. At 90 000 salary he would be a decent guy to have playing behind a far better player making in the 200 to 300 000 range. 390 000 is obscene. And to get back to Nana, as I said before both TFC and Montreal could really use him. I have no idea why neither team seems to be pursuing him. Plus while I understand we did not pick him in the expansion draft because he wanted to go to Europe, the guy we did pick from San Jose, Bobby Burling, also a defender and former Marsch teammate (he likes former teammates) did not sign for us so we wasted a pick which we could have used for Nana's rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keano Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Well Nesta should help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger miller Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Eckersley for his part has not been very impressive over the course of the year. He hasn't been worse than most of the other defenders TFC has employed but hasn't been better either. He is basically a decent backup/sometimes starter RB. At 90 000 salary he would be a decent guy to have playing behind a far better player making in the 200 to 300 000 range. 390 000 is obscene. . Ok you must be more knowledgable about TFC than all the TFC fans. TFC fans always have their wipping boys, but Eckerley isnt amongst them and the handfull of of fans who constantly bring up Eckersley's name in this forum are not even TFC supporters. I know that i have posting here for only for a very short while, but what i have observed over that time and the time that I have been lurking, is that you seem to have more to say about TFC and its players than about the Impact. Such as, that this or that TFC player is over rated and that this or that coach is no good. Maybe you right, TFC fans need to be set straight and see the errors of their ways. Maybe no one in TO knows soccer. Here is a little secret, mixing positives and negatives gives you credibility when talking about a rival. Montreal and Toronto have rivalry and thats good. As far as i can tell, over the past two weeks one team is trending upwards and the other, downwards. Both have been ravaged by injuries on defense (TFC for much longer). Therefore there must be an Eckersley or two amongst the Montreal back four. What about Valentin? a US olympian. How is he better than Eckersley. Shall we look at experience and Pedigree and compare Eckersley to Valentin? Both play the same position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Ok you must be more knowledgable about TFC than all the TFC fans. TFC fans always have their wipping boys, but Eckerley isnt amongst them and the handfull of of fans who constantly bring up Eckersley's name in this forum are not even TFC supporters. I know that i have posting here for only for a very short while, but what i have observed over that time and the time that I have been lurking, is that you seem to have more to say about TFC and its players than about the Impact. Such as, that this or that TFC player is over rated and that this or that coach is no good. Maybe you right, TFC fans need to be set straight and see the errors of their ways. Maybe no one in TO knows soccer. Here is a little secret, mixing positives and negatives gives you credibility when talking about a rival. Montreal and Toronto have rivalry and thats good. As far as i can tell, over the past two weeks one team is trending upwards and the other, downwards. Both have been ravaged by injuries on defense (TFC for much longer). Therefore there must be an Eckersley or two amongst the Montreal back four. What about Valentin? a US olympian. How is he better than Eckersley. Shall we look at experience and Pedigree and compare Eckersley to Valentin? Both play the same position. I'm a TFC fan, others and myself have complained about Eckersley this season. Grizz is spot on, he isn't worth his pay... not even close. He's a typical MLS player, average at best in this league... a hard working, athletic player lacking in technical ability. I like the guy, he works hard and seems to be a good team guy but as long as we spend our cap money on players like that we'll be stuck in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I'm a TFC fan, others and myself have complained about Eckersley this season. Grizz is spot on, he isn't worth his pay... not even close. He's a typical MLS player, average at best in this league... a hard working, athletic player lacking in technical ability. I like the guy, he works hard and seems to be a good team guy but as long as we spend our cap money on players like that we'll be stuck in the basement. I'm a fan of all the Canadian teams. I haven't missed a single minute of TFC action this season as long as it was televised. And that's pretty much every game if you have GolTV. Ecks is not worth 390k. My comments in these forums were saying that Toronto fans in general...Maple Leaf fans, etc seem to have a soft spot for "grinder" type players. There is nothing wrong with that, but that's how Ecks got his following in Toronto. Not because of his talent. He has heart, I'll give him that, but to me, he doesn't have the talent to back it up. At times, at least Domi did. With that mindset in mind...I agree with Mariner in not giving Plata a lot of playing time. I liked his heart and style too, but his effectiveness was sporadic at best. He may be heading back to Ecuador if you believe the rumor mill. I also think it was silly to give Frings a contract no matter HOW talented he is (which is very), because they'd already spent DP money on a player for a similar position. I don't think it's wise to have two defensive midfielders making DP coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Ok you must be more knowledgable about TFC than all the TFC fans. TFC fans always have their wipping boys, but Eckerley isnt amongst them and the handfull of of fans who constantly bring up Eckersley's name in this forum are not even TFC supporters. I know that i have posting here for only for a very short while, but what i have observed over that time and the time that I have been lurking, is that you seem to have more to say about TFC and its players than about the Impact. Such as, that this or that TFC player is over rated and that this or that coach is no good. Maybe you right, TFC fans need to be set straight and see the errors of their ways. Maybe no one in TO knows soccer. Here is a little secret, mixing positives and negatives gives you credibility when talking about a rival. Montreal and Toronto have rivalry and thats good. As far as i can tell, over the past two weeks one team is trending upwards and the other, downwards. Both have been ravaged by injuries on defense (TFC for much longer). Therefore there must be an Eckersley or two amongst the Montreal back four. What about Valentin? a US olympian. How is he better than Eckersley. Shall we look at experience and Pedigree and compare Eckersley to Valentin? Both play the same position. I make criticisms of both TFC and the Impact as you can see even on this page of the thread and as you can see from the other posts many of the TFC fans are critical of Eckersley as well. And you are criticizing me for being critical of Winter? Need I repeat his record during his time here or his trades or the results of his ultimatums to young players to sign their future away for peanuts? And maybe you haven't noticed but TFC's record this season is 2 - 10- 3 and the team has not made the playoffs once in its previous 5 seasons and barring a miracle will miss them again this year. I am sorry if I am not being positive enough for your tastes, you might prefer the Kool-Aid being served by the MLSE marketing department. Are you seriously comparing Valentin negatively to Eckersley???? Do you watch matches at all? Valentin has all the technical skills that Eckersley lacks, is faster, reads the game better indeed is superior in almost every category. He is young, a bit inconsistent and prone to occasional mistakes and sometimes is a little careless in going on the attack but a far superior player even currently to Eckersley and far more potential being 3 years younger. That is why he has represented the US at every age level and is on their Olympic team as an underage player. He is a future senior national team player for the US. That is pedigree. How many times has Eckersley represented England at any age level? So pedigree for you is making two substitute EPL appearances for 51 minutes as a youth prospect in one game that was a blowout victory before he entered and another that was meaningless to the table at the end of the season? Or playing 7 games in the Championship and 15 in League 2 while on loan from a relegation level EPL/mid-table Championship team who never deems you good enough to play even one game for them in 3 seasons? Yes that is pedigree for sure, $390 000 of it apparently from your club management who thinks as you do. And yes the Impact have several Eckersley level players in our lineup especially when we have injuries, that is why our backline has been so poor the last couple of games. I am not even criticizing TFC for having Eckersley, indeed last year I posted (without knowing the salary details) that they should keep him for this year. Every team needs to have a few guys like Eckersley, ie. borderline MLS starters, at around the 90 000 to 100 000 salary range. Paying 390 000 for a player like that is ridiculous especially when the same team traded a better and cheaper player in Nana a year earlier. But our back 4 against TFC of Brovsky, Thomas, Camara and Valentin had 3 players of Eckersley's calibre but 2 of them are backup players and Brovsky should be a back up. (And yes I am absolutely pissed off that Marsch did not get a decent left back and does not seem to see the urgent need for one). Even though Valentin is a very good player when your best defender is 20 years old you are going to have problems. And while TFC has had injuries this year in the back the injured guys like Cann are borderline MLS starters themselves unlike Ferrari and Rivas who are top players. But yes Rivas has a history of injuries and Ferrari is aging so Marsch really screwed up in not getting better back up. I could actually cut Marsch some slack on that since we are an expansion team and depth usually is a problem for expansion sides, however, there was better backup available in the draft and he chose not to select it as well as trading a guy who is now Chivas' starting CB for a (tall) sack of potatoes called Justin Braun (and then continually playing this sack of potatoes even though he is not scoring and constantly making brutal turnovers that have cost us several goals). As far as criticizing current coaches, I have my doubts about Marriner as the long term solution or the best available hire but TFC's results have improved since he took over. As for Marsch I am really trying to figure him out. I have to give him credit in that we are better than expected for an expansion team and seem to play with heart and have good team spirit. On the other hand there seem to be so many poor decisions he has made from the expansion draft to trades to substitutions and tactical decisions. For one thing he does not seem to understand how to break down teams that are playing very defensive against us which is one reason we have had so much trouble with TFC this year while playing better against stronger but more offensive teams. He is definitely a young and inexperienced coach and that is often very obvious though on the other hand he seems to have some potential as a coach. He definitely would not have been my choice as coach for our team and if I were in Saputo's shoes at the start of the year I would have (and still would) hire someone else. On the other hand I think he has shown enough promise that I would keep him for next year now and hope that he learns and improves with the experience he is getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Cockney Rip Off Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 How accurate are the numbers released by the players union? I ask because there was an interview with Mariner where said that Eckersly made a lot less then was reported and he was surprised to see how high he was listed at. Could be some BS from Mariner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I wonder if he had any salary remaining on his Burnley deal and if a stipulation of his securing a release and signing with MLS was to pay the remainder of his contract? Could make his salary this season very lopsided before becoming more reasonable next season? Just trying to rationalize paying Ecks $390K... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger miller Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Grizz is spot on Grizz is an Impact Supporter and he hates TFC. It just took me three months to figure that out. Do you honnestly think that your going to get objective assessment of TFC player Or the organization from Grizz. Let ask grizz what he thinks of other TFC players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 As a TFC supporter I don't really rate Valentin as a player but he's better to have on a team than Ecks at $390k who boots the ball down the field too much. If Valentin is all he's cracked up to be by Grizzly, Chivas would have protected him in the expansion draft. The argument that Valentin is better because he's an American international vs Ecks who hasn't been capped by England is ridiculous. Slap yourself in the face for using such a stupid argument please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger miller Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 As a TFC supporter I don't really rate Valentin as a player but he's better to have on a team than Ecks at $390k who boots the ball down the field too much. If Valentin is all he's cracked up to be by Grizzly, Chivas would have protected him in the expansion the draft. The argument that Valentin is better because he's an American international vs Ecks who hasn't been capped by England is ridiculous. Slap yourself in the face for using such a stupid argument please. You get a gold star from me Mr. Soccerpro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger miller Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Yeah, i wonder why they didnt protect him. I had forgotten that he was claimed in the expansion draft. Impact supporters have seen him for all one third of the year (actually, less than that since he was away with the olympic team) and are already claiming him as future international. As far as i recall he didnt start all the games. We got to see him at the recent olympic qualifying did we not? On the same side of the pitch as Russel Tiebert. And we beat Valentin's team using some players who cant get the same playing time in MLS as Valentin. Including, one or two who are on the same club team as Valentin. See, with Grizz, Americans are terrible players. And they are brutal over rated bums if they play for TFC even if they have been capped by the US. But they are good players and future internationals if they play for the Impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 As a TFC supporter I don't really rate Valentin as a player but he's better to have on a team than Ecks at $390k who boots the ball down the field too much. If Valentin is all he's cracked up to be by Grizzly, Chivas would have protected him in the expansion draft. The argument that Valentin is better because he's an American international vs Ecks who hasn't been capped by England is ridiculous. Slap yourself in the face for using such a stupid argument please. What decade of soccer are you watching? Did you see the recent Euro? Good for England that they bunkered and managed to get Italy to penalties, the only serious chance they had at winning. The English press is wondering why England can not maintain possession or pass the ball and you are talking about them like they were a world power like they were in the 60's and earlier. There is not much of a gap between England and US now in national team terms although England still has better depth. And the worst of it for England is more and more they are becoming a physical athletic side with no technical abilities while the US is improving their technical abilities. And we are comparing a guy who has played at every level for the US and now is an underage U23 team player to a guy who never got a sniff from England even at U15 or U17. But sorry pedigree according to the Miller is playing 24 professional matches in 4 years before you sign with TFC. And Miller if you followed the game at all you would know that the reason Valentin missed a lot of games for us was because of injury. Valentin was left unprotected because much to the dismay of Chivas, MLS graduated him from Generation Adidas earlier than expected and he became a high priced young player. Chivas is a team that has not played well for a couple of years, has declining attendance and financial problems, they wanted a quick fix not expensive young players that will be great in the future. Plus a lot of deals were made before the draft and it should not be forgotten that we made a trade with Chivas right after in which they got James Riley, a veteran starting CB which is what they wanted. Valentin was a 4th overall selection in the Superdraft the year before and played 25 matches in his debut season. As one author stated, "Certainly, the fact that Chivas left Valentin unprotected in the Expansion Draft came as a shock, and as soon as that news was released it seemed inevitable that Montreal Impact coach Jesse Marsch would snap him up." A few teams made poor decisions in the expansion draft and luckily we were able to profit from them. Otherwise we would probably have a whole backline today of Brovskys and Eckersleys (actually now that Ferrari and Rivas are injured that is exactly what we do have with the exception of Valentin). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger miller Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I am amazed at your ability to make up things up on the fly to try to defend a weak position. I dont see where soccerpro said anything in regards to england, the english team or English player development. You claimed that a distinguishing feature of Valentin was that he was capped by the US. But he has not been capped by the senior team, he has been capped at the youth level, just as Jacob Peterson has as well and countless other players in MLS (past or presnet) including Pablo Vitti, who played with Messi at the U20 WC and won the whole thing. Ok, then lets hear a great defence of Jacob Peterson just because he played for the US at the U20 WC. Oh, i am sorry, i forgot, he played for TFC so he must be a bum. No wait,he doesnt play for TFC anymore, so he must be good now. Your second paragraph, you just made up. What is your source for that info. This is a salary cap league in case you havent noticed. Everybody spends the same amount of money except for the teams who get DP's. There are no poor clubs although there are some that draw less than others like Chivas and Montreal. Saying that Chivas got rid of him because they have financial problems and they couldnt afford Valenin, is a joke and fabrication. Do they not have Juan Pablo Angel? Did they not just acquire Juan agudelo? So you are saying that they can afford those two but not Valentin. Yes, they have attendance problems but last month it was Montreal and Chivas who had lowest attendances and in some games Chivas outdrew the Impact. In Vergara, they have one of the wealthiest owners in MLS. So now you are telling us that Chivas is Derby county and Montreal is Manchester united? Nice try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Soolsma released. http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3459-Soolsma-released-by-Toronto A bit shocked at this one. I wonder who TFC are going to bring in during the transfer window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmonte Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Soolsma released. http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3459-Soolsma-released-by-Toronto A bit shocked at this one. I wonder who TFC are going to bring in during the transfer window. Plata gone too. Transfer to Ecuador finally official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Soolsma released. http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?3459-Soolsma-released-by-Toronto A bit shocked at this one. I wonder who TFC are going to bring in during the transfer window. When he was first brought in i figured he'd be a flame out, but he ended up surprising me. Not a bad winger in a 4-2-3-1, but i don't think he fits in the 4-4-2 setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MM2 Posted July 15, 2012 Author Share Posted July 15, 2012 Roster on first page updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 For those who didnt see, TFC suffered a huge blow on Saturday when Danny Kouvermans was stretchered off the pitch in 41st minute with what would appear to look like a season ending knee injury. Sometimes this club this club cant buy a break. The play of Danny K was one of the few bright spots this year. Someone in another thread mentioned his scoring rate since his arrival ( 17 goals in 26 games). But also worth noting that he has managed this feat playing on a club that has had no attacking midfielder. In other words, he has had no one who can provided quality service. Often, Aron Winter would start a MF of three (Frings, JDG, Dunfield) defensive or ball winning midfielders. This has been the best centre fwd that the club has had in six years. One step forward, with the play and results since Mariners arrival. And a big step backwards with this loss. There is no one close to Danny K on depth charts. So this has complicate things significantly, going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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