Motagua vs. Toronto FC - Aug 3rd

[jpoma]

Other people - you mean TFC haters?

[loyola]

Paul James article about the game:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/james-on-soccer/tfc-get-the-job-done/article1661156/

[Seb of Mtl]

Its good for canadian soccer even if i do hate TFC im still happy to see that they are able to fulfill certain objectives and represent canada properly on the highest stage of club soccer in our region. id like to see them pass the group stage but the challenge will definitly be a lot greater than that of the prelim round.

[TFC07]

TFC fans say Motagua was "fresh"

Other people say they were in pre-season (not in game form).

No offence, but people were saying the same thing when Montreal went on their run. Defending Montreal instead of realizing the teams they were beating were in their pre-season form.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Its good for canadian soccer even if i do hate TFC im still happy to see that they are able to fulfill certain objectives and represent canada properly on the highest stage of club soccer in our region. id like to see them pass the group stage but the challenge will definitly be a lot greater than that of the prelim round.

Not sure about that. I think Panama is more into baseball than soccer and only has about 3 million people so I don't think Arabe Unido are likely to be on the same level as Motagua and RSL like a lot of American teams might focus almost exclusively on MLS and field a weakened team in the Champions League. Won't be easy to qualify but making the latter stages is far from being mission impossible as the Impact and Puerto Rico Islanders have shown in the past.

[BearcatSA]

^ And for all those saying how many chances Motagua missed, how many chances did TFC miss in the home leg? As deRo said, they were very disappointed that the score was not 4-0 going to Honduras.

All the more reason for Motagua to be disappointed with their profligacy in front of goal on Tuesday evening.

[intim0dating]

Haters gon' hate

[jpg75]

Not sure about that. I think Panama is more into baseball than soccer and only has about 3 million people so I don't think Arabe Unido are likely to be on the same level as Motagua and RSL like a lot of American teams might focus almost exclusively on MLS and field a weakened team in the Champions League. Won't be easy to qualify but making the latter stages is far from being mission impossible as the Impact and Puerto Rico Islanders have shown in the past.

Arabe Unido were Quarter-Finalists in last years CCL, but hey, if you want to pass off stereotypes as knowledge keep right on doing it....

[loyola]

Arabe Unido were Quarter-Finalists in last years CCL

True and they finished ahead of Houston in the group stage. They also got a big 4-1 win over Pachuca in the first group game. It should be a tough test for TFC just like the rest of the group.

[Jeremy]

No offence, but people were saying the same thing when Montreal went on their run. Defending Montreal instead of realizing the teams they were beating were in their pre-season form.

It's all good,I wasn't around this board when we made the CCL run. I'm just stating the obvious!

And by other people, I mean other people.

[Seb of Mtl]

It's all good,I wasn't around this board when we made the CCL run. I'm just stating the obvious!

And by other people, I mean other people.

on that note, IMFC went down to honduras and trinidad and won. I wouldnt be surprised if TFC advanced

[TFCRegina]

on that note, IMFC went down to honduras and trinidad and won. I wouldnt be surprised if TFC advanced

Honduras is a lot more to brag about than Trinidad...although with CONCACAF i'm surprised it wasn't all fixed for Joe Public.

[Cheeta]

I seriously think they could come out of Group A. Hard way to start the group stage but whatever. You've got to play Cruz Azul at some point so you may as well get it over with.

[Grizzly]

No offence, but people were saying the same thing when Montreal went on their run. Defending Montreal instead of realizing the teams they were beating were in their pre-season form.

No offence but I always love it when people completely make up stuff to try and defeat someone's argument. The only team we played who may have been in pre-season or early season was Real Esteli who we were expected to beat anyway. All of the stronger teams we faced were well into their season since the group stage games occured in September and October. Then in the quarter final we were at a disadvantage because we were out of season and Santos Laguna was in season.

Additionally, the central American teams are usually starting their Apertura season at the time of the preliminary round but Honduras started their season late because of the World Cup. The Honduran team did have fresher legs than TFC but were also out of season so I would call that a wash out as to advantage/disadvantage. TFC won the series even if they didn't do it convincingly (rarely do they have convincing victories under "grind and win ugly" Preki so this was probably to be expected) and in the end that is all that matters.

[Sam]

^ I agree the second leg was not convincing, but they went into Honduras and got the result something I didn't expect to see them do. And the first leg they dominated Motagua and could have scored three or four. Toronto did enough to make it through to the group stage which is all they really needed to do.

To compare what Toronto did to what the Impact did though is stupid at the moment. As Grizzly rightly said the Impact expected to beat Real Esteli although they just barely squeezed by and hopes were not high heading into the group stage for Montreal. They surprised us all and went on a fabulous little run, and maybe if the Impact had been in midseason form they wouldn't have had the collapse against Santos and we could be talking about that Impact team in a different light. Toronto won one tie, this is no where near a "Champions League run" yet and to compare it to Montreal's doesn't make sense. Unless Toronto make it through the group and get a result or two down in Mexico and Panama can we start comparing Toronto's Champions League performance to Montreal's.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

True and they finished ahead of Houston in the group stage. They also got a big 4-1 win over Pachuca in the first group game. It should be a tough test for TFC just like the rest of the group.

Anyone who wants to talk up Aribe Unido as being some kind of CONCACAF superpower should bear this game in mind:

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/09/houston-mauls-arabe-unido-51-in-concacaf-champions-league.html

[Grizzly]

Anyone who wants to talk up Aribe Unido as being some kind of CONCACAF superpower should bear this game in mind:

http://www.soccerbyives.net/soccer_by_ives/2009/09/houston-mauls-arabe-unido-51-in-concacaf-champions-league.html

I won't bother posting the obvious response like the other results in the group but very typical of your style to post the one piece of evidence that supports your opinion and ignore all the rest. Additionally, noone is claiming they are a superpower, merely that they can be competitive and have been so in the past.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Given in my original post in this thread what I stated was that they are unlikely to be as good as Motagua (a team stacked with Honduras national team players) and that qualification by TFC would not be easy but is by no means mission impossible what exactly is all the fuss about? Beyond that I think people need to bear in mind that CONCACAF's Champions League isn't like the European version in prestige terms. Participating teams (especially American ones from MLS) sometimes prioritize success in their domestic level competitions and don't take it 100% seriously.

[RS]

^ I agree the second leg was not convincing, but they went into Honduras and got the result something I didn't expect to see them do. And the first leg they dominated Motagua and could have scored three or four. Toronto did enough to make it through to the group stage which is all they really needed to do.

To compare what Toronto did to what the Impact did though is stupid at the moment. As Grizzly rightly said the Impact expected to beat Real Esteli although they just barely squeezed by and hopes were not high heading into the group stage for Montreal. They surprised us all and went on a fabulous little run, and maybe if the Impact had been in midseason form they wouldn't have had the collapse against Santos and we could be talking about that Impact team in a different light. Toronto won one tie, this is no where near a "Champions League run" yet and to compare it to Montreal's doesn't make sense. Unless Toronto make it through the group and get a result or two down in Mexico and Panama can we start comparing Toronto's Champions League performance to Montreal's.

Um, what?

Toronto's Champions League "performance" last year was compared to Montreal's, so why not this year?

As a TFC supporter, I'm obviously elated that they pulled off the result in Honduras against a very good side that was five days away from opening their season. Yes, Toronto held on for dear life at the end, but all of these "what-ifs" that people seem to be throwing around came to naught and the desired result was achieved.

Now TFC heads off into a very tough group, although one that they can advance out of. Cruz Azul is a powerhouse and RSL is on a roll after last year's MLS Cup win (and have an unbeaten home record that is better than TFC's). Arabe Unido was a quarterfinalist last year, but still should be the lesser of the teams that Toronto will face.

Tired legs and ridiculous travel/fixture congestion will definitely become an issue (especially because TFC is already in the mid of a heavy schedule right now, with virtually no lead-in time until the group stage kicks off), but that's something Montreal dealt with as well.

I think the group Toronto is in is tougher than the one Montreal was in two years ago, and the preliminary opponent faced by TFC is far superior to Real Esteli. TFC itself is a better side top-to-bottom than that Montreal team of two years ago, so that evens things out a bit. Toronto should have an equal shot of advancing out of this group as Montreal did in their group two years ago. Of course, TFC can find new ways to disappoint (although so did Montreal in the knockout round), so I guess we'll see.

I'm quietly confident, although very nervous that this fixture congestion could wreak havoc on both the playoff run and the CCL.

[themodelcitizen]

Cruz Azul and Arabe Unido will be difficult opponents, but they'll be just as hard for Salt Lake as they are for Toronto. 4 points against Salt Lake may be enough to tip the balance into second place, assuming both MLS teams slip past Unido.

[loyola]

Given in my original post in this thread what I stated was that they are unlikely to be as good as Motagua (a team stacked with Honduras national team players) and that qualification by TFC would not be easy but is by no means mission impossible what exactly is all the fuss about? Beyond that I think people need to bear in mind that CONCACAF's Champions League isn't like the European version in prestige terms. Participating teams (especially American ones from MLS) sometimes prioritize success in their domestic level competitions and don't take it 100% seriously.

This was the part I was responding to:

I think Panama is more into baseball than soccer and only has about 3 million people so I don't think Arabe Unido are likely to be on the same level as Motagua and RSL

Their 2009 results seems to indicate that they were of a similar level than Motagua or RSL.

[Free kick]

Um, what?

Toronto's Champions League "performance" last year was compared to Montreal's, so why not this year?

As a TFC supporter, I'm obviously elated that they pulled off the result in Honduras against a very good side that was five days away from opening their season. Yes, Toronto held on for dear life at the end, but all of these "what-ifs" that people seem to be throwing around came to naught and the desired result was achieved.

Now TFC heads off into a very tough group, although one that they can advance out of. Cruz Azul is a powerhouse and RSL is on a roll after last year's MLS Cup win (and have an unbeaten home record that is better than TFC's). Arabe Unido was a quarterfinalist last year, but still should be the lesser of the teams that Toronto will face.

Tired legs and ridiculous travel/fixture congestion will definitely become an issue (especially because TFC is already in the mid of a heavy schedule right now, with virtually no lead-in time until the group stage kicks off), but that's something Montreal dealt with as well.

I think the group Toronto is in is tougher than the one Montreal was in two years ago, and the preliminary opponent faced by TFC is far superior to Real Esteli. TFC itself is a better side top-to-bottom than that Montreal team of two years ago, so that evens things out a bit. Toronto should have an equal shot of advancing out of this group as Montreal did in their group two years ago. Of course, TFC can find new ways to disappoint (although so did Montreal in the knockout round), so I guess we'll see.

I'm quietly confident, although very nervous that this fixture congestion could wreak havoc on both the playoff run and the CCL.

Very accurate and I might add: Two years ago, Montreal faced Joe Public, Olympia and Atlante in the group stage and Real Estrilli inthe pre lim. Both Real estrilli and Joe public were not good sides.

Although TFC is in a tough group, its a big break to get Cruz Azul at home right from the start. Not only will they still be in pre seaosn, but the mexican sides tend to save their best efforts for when its needed and thats usually at teh end of the group stage.

[Sam]

Um, what?

Toronto's Champions League "performance" last year was compared to Montreal's, so why not this year?

As a TFC supporter, I'm obviously elated that they pulled off the result in Honduras against a very good side that was five days away from opening their season. Yes, Toronto held on for dear life at the end, but all of these "what-ifs" that people seem to be throwing around came to naught and the desired result was achieved.

Now TFC heads off into a very tough group, although one that they can advance out of. Cruz Azul is a powerhouse and RSL is on a roll after last year's MLS Cup win (and have an unbeaten home record that is better than TFC's). Arabe Unido was a quarterfinalist last year, but still should be the lesser of the teams that Toronto will face.

Tired legs and ridiculous travel/fixture congestion will definitely become an issue (especially because TFC is already in the mid of a heavy schedule right now, with virtually no lead-in time until the group stage kicks off), but that's something Montreal dealt with as well.

I think the group Toronto is in is tougher than the one Montreal was in two years ago, and the preliminary opponent faced by TFC is far superior to Real Esteli. TFC itself is a better side top-to-bottom than that Montreal team of two years ago, so that evens things out a bit. Toronto should have an equal shot of advancing out of this group as Montreal did in their group two years ago. Of course, TFC can find new ways to disappoint (although so did Montreal in the knockout round), so I guess we'll see.

I'm quietly confident, although very nervous that this fixture congestion could wreak havoc on both the playoff run and the CCL.

I agree. Huge accomplishment for Toronto getting the result in Honduras. All I'm saying is wait till the campaign is over to compare it to Montreal's. I think Toronto can and will do well in their group. It's just the people who are saying Toronto are just doing the same thing as Montreal by beating teams in preseason form is wrong. B/C as previously mentioned in September/October these teams won't be in preseason form, and Toronto still has to beat them. If Toronto does make it out of their group that is when you can start comparing results of the two runs.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Their 2009 results seems to indicate that they were of a similar level than Motagua or RSL.

Including their 5-1 defeat away to Houston? :confused: To reach that conclusion you have to cherrypick a tiny number of results from a single season, which could easily have been caused by unusual circumstances. Honestly think it's better to take a step back and to try and see the bigger picture. Honduras has a far stronger soccer tradition than Panama does and Motagua are one of the biggest clubs there and have several players from the Honduras world cup squad. Getting past them in the qualifiers was a great achievement. Having Aribe Unido in the group rather than a top Honduran or Costa Rican club like Olimpia or Deportivo Saprissa along with RSL who may choose to prioritize MLS to a greater extent than TFC makes me cautiously optimistic about TFC's chances but I'm taking nothing for granted after what happened against the Puerto Rico Islanders last summer.

[Jeremy]

Including their 5-1 defeat away to Houston? :confused: To reach that conclusion you have to cherrypick a tiny number of results from a single season, which could easily have been caused by unusual circumstances. Honestly think it's better to take a step back and to try and see the bigger picture. Honduras has a far stronger soccer tradition than Panama does and Motagua are one of the biggest clubs there and have several players from the Honduras world cup squad. Getting past them in the qualifiers was a great achievement. Having Aribe Unido in the group rather than a top Honduran or Costa Rican club like Olimpia or Deportivo Saprissa along with RSL who may choose to prioritize MLS to a greater extent than TFC makes me cautiously optimistic about TFC's chances but I'm taking nothing for granted after what happened against the Puerto Rico Islanders last summer.

What about Galaxy's 4-1 defeat at home? MLS is such an inferior league!