We Can't Have A Serious F-cking Competition witn Beer League Refs

[Grizzly]

Discuss

[Go_Impact]

It’s disheartening. Anyone can blow a call but to boldly blow one without asking for help from his assistant; he has to be an especially confident incompetent.

[Cheeta]

To be honest from the live angle on TV it did look like the defender got James in the calf. Subsequent replays of course disproved that assumption, quite badly, and no the linesman didn't wave for a foul before or after the ref blew his whistle. That's telling as you can often spy the linesman waving a foul after it's been whistled. Don't know if that's a requirement or out of solidarity but it didn't happen in the 80th at Swangard.

Braz made his own bed on the free kick though. Yikes. Good luck disguising that push, Big Man.

[Grizzly]

Braz was stupid on that play no doubt about that but this ref was a disaster right from the first whistle. The particlular call on the free kick was just waiting to happen. Result also just happened to be ideal for TFC and I wonder where the ref was from. We should just have Vergara ref all the VCup games since he seeems to be the only decent ref in this country and also is not based in any of the regions involved.

[kj52]

Does anyone know the names of the reffing crew?

[RS]

Result also just happened to be ideal for TFC and I wonder where the ref was from.

The result was also "more" ideal for Vancouver than a loss would have been, so maybe the ref was from BC??

Or maybe.... the level of officiating in Canada just sucks?

[Mr.Caca]

the level of officiating in Canada just sucks?

Sad truth.

[ditty]

Outside of the phantom foul on Samuel, certainly a critical mistake, I thought the ref was good. Up to that moment he had good control of the match and the officiating was a non-factor. I think Adam Braz is overrated but felt he played very well until he lost his marbles on the free kick. To me, behavior like that reflect as poorly on our standard of soccer as our officiating, in my opinion.

Grizz, I'm interested in what you felt was poor, outside of the aforementioned mistake.

With no national league, Canadian refs are certainly at a disadvantage in their development. MLS referees also have their issues. But how many times a week do you think soccer fan forums around the world are full of discussions over blown calls?

[Blue and White Army]

I've seen the main ref several times before. I have a feeling he's from BC.

[Mr.Impact]

I've seen the main ref several times before. I have a feeling he's from BC.

If that is the case, its just wrong. The same if we were to have a Quebec based ref in a game involving IMFC, or a ref that has the misfortune of hailing from ontario.

[Lord Bob]

You're right in general terms, but the pool of referees in this country is awfully thin. And in the case of bias in a short tournament like the Voyageurs Cup, there's going to be lots of motivation to fix any game (if the ref was from Ontario he would have wanted a draw and maybe would have turned a sketchy Marlon James dive into a kick from the spot while red-carding Impact players like he was a traffic signal, non?)

I'd much rather just get refs who aren't crooked than get refs who might be crooked and start worrying about their geographic orientation.

[Mr.Impact]

I was leaning more towards transparency, but I understand your point. The question remains how do you know who is, and isn't willing to accept a bribe?

[tmcmurph]

Seems every time we play the Timbers in Portland the games are hard fought but the officiating is very good. I'm thinking specifically of the second playoff game last year. 2 teams with an intense rivalry and in the playoffs makes for hard game to call but I thought he did great. Maybe we need to import some officials for the Voyageurs Cup games.

[Richard]

Does anyone know the names of the reffing crew?

Referee: Geoff Gamble

Assistants: Cameron Blair, Kevin Duliba

4th Official: Paul Ward

[Grizzly]

Outside of the phantom foul on Samuel, certainly a critical mistake, I thought the ref was good. Up to that moment he had good control of the match and the officiating was a non-factor. I think Adam Braz is overrated but felt he played very well until he lost his marbles on the free kick. To me, behavior like that reflect as poorly on our standard of soccer as our officiating, in my opinion.

Grizz, I'm interested in what you felt was poor, outside of the aforementioned mistake.

With no national league, Canadian refs are certainly at a disadvantage in their development. MLS referees also have their issues. But how many times a week do you think soccer fan forums around the world are full of discussions over blown calls?

I disagree with you completely on the ref being good other than that call. He was poor from the first minute constantly getting little calls wrong and awarding fouls to the team committing them. The foul in question was not even a mistake but an absolute failure of reffing responsibility. It doesn't matter if it might have looked like a real foul from where he was, it is his job to get in position to see whether it was a foul or not and if he is not in position he needs to consult the assistent who in this case was in exactly the right position to see what happened. He did not and should be sanctioned by the CSA for this. He stole the game from us as simple as that, Vancouver was playing poorly until that call. While Braz did deserve his red if one ignores that it occured on an illegitimate play the red to Agouram was excessive. The ref for the first game against Toronto (a BC ref) was also poor. Gamble is an Ontario ref and it was his first and hopefully last Voyageurs Cup match.

I contrast that with the match we played against Puerto Rico the week before that was reffed by Vergera when one saw from the first minute that he was in control of the game, was making accurate calls and had the respect of the players on both teams. It was so noticeable because it is so rare to have a ref of that level at a match in Canada. Yet he has never reffed a Voyageurs Cup match despite as a Manitoban being neutral for all teams. Yet poor refs like Petrescu and Chenard have both reffed 3 matches each out of a total of 14 Voyageurs Cup matches so far.

It is also pretty clear that most of the blown/controversial calls have gone against Montreal and I don't recall TFC being on the wrong end of any serious error. Indeed pretty much every blown call caused a result that favoured TFC's winning of the competition. I don't know whether or not this is a coincidence caused merely by poor refs or refs giving in to pressure either direct or indirect to favour the team in the higher league and largest media centre of Canada. Regardless it does not look good and is frustrating as a fan of another team. If we get beaten fairly I can accept that but the type of result like last night lowers my opinion of this competition. Yes reffing mistakes occur throughout the world but look at the number of mistakes we have had in only 14 Voyageur Cup games and it is really unacceptable.

I understand that it is hard to develop refs with the limited number of professional games in this country. Nevertheless, I think each game of this competition is too important to trust it to the incompetent refs we have seen so far. It is one thing to train refs in a league where teams are playing 30 games and another to train them in a 6 game competition where each game is life or death for the teams involved. We need either to put better Canadian refs in charge, ie. give Vergera the whole thing or bring in foreign refs. The current refs are bringing this competition into disrepute.

[Michael Crampton]

While Braz did deserve his red if one ignores that it occured on an illegitimate play

An "illegitimate play"? Once the ref's made the call, right or wrong, whatever happens after is legitimate.

The ref for the first game against Toronto (a BC ref) was also poor.

Are you Dos Santos in disguise?

It is also pretty clear that most of the blown/controversial calls have gone against Montreal and I don't recall TFC being on the wrong end of any serious error. Indeed pretty much every blown call caused a result that favoured TFC's winning of the competition. I don't know whether or not this is a coincidence caused merely by poor refs or refs giving in to pressure either direct or indirect to favour the team in the higher league and largest media centre of Canada. Regardless it does not look good and is frustrating as a fan of another team.

You're awesome. Truly awesome. (And have a bad memory it would appear.)

If we get beaten fairly I can accept that but the type of result like last night lowers my opinion of this competition.

What does getting beaten 6 - 1 at home do for your opinion? And not picking up a single point in an entire year? Look on the bright side: you're already doing better than last time!

The current refs are bringing this competition into disrepute.

Nah, we'll leave that to the Trois-Riviere Attak.

[Keano]

An "illegitimate play"? Once the ref's made the call, right or wrong, whatever happens after is legitimate.

Are you Dos Santos in disguise?

You're awesome. Truly awesome. (And have a bad memory it would appear.)

What does getting beaten 6 - 1 at home do for your opinion? And not picking up a single point in an entire year? Look on the bright side: you're already doing better than last time!

Nah, we'll leave that to the Trois-Riviere Attak.

It weird that people seem to think the 6-1 stuff bothers us

[SthMelbRed]

It weird that people seem to think the 6-1 stuff bothers us

It really should, though. It was an embarassing episode in your club's history.

[Mr.Impact]

It really should, though. It was an embarassing episode in your club's history.

What's also embarassing is how Vancouver bent over every game after that incident. They showed they had no balls. not once, not twice, but 4 times including the play offs. What does that say abouth the character of you're team?

[Trident]

It really should, though. It was an embarassing episode in your club's history.

We made our opinions heard. We also beat Vancouver, got the needed points, so that paid off.

Especially when we won the cup.

Over and done with.

[Grizzly]

I personally agree that it was an embarrassing episode in our club's history. It shouldn't have happened and hopefully will never happen again. The Caps and their fans had a right to be pissed off about it. It doesn't bother me that TFC beat our reserve team 6-1 but it does bother me that we put a reserve team out there for the match. TFC fans shouldn't be so smug though considering we gifted them their only championship which they didn't deserve.

Nevertheless, that is an unrelated issue to the poor and seemingly biased reffing of the Voyageurs Cup matches. I was speaking to some of the players at the news conference and they are pretty frustrated as well with the reffing and the continual calls against us. Indeed they have a much better memory of various incidents than I do and mentioned several that I had forgotten about. The CSA needs to ensure that the reffing is of better quality and impartial if it wants to maintain the integrity of the competition.

[RS]

TFC fans shouldn't be so smug though considering we gifted them their only championship which they didn't deserve.

Right. MTL fans would never bring up the result again were the roles reversed.

[RS]

As for the calls against Montreal, perhaps if the Impact didn't constantly play like thugs they wouldn't receive so much punishment from the officials? Just a thought.

(This is coming from a fan of a Preki-led team. Martin Saric has nothing on Adam Braz.)

[Michael Crampton]

Nevertheless, that is an unrelated issue to the poor and seemingly biased reffing of the Voyageurs Cup matches. I was speaking to some of the players at the news conference and they are pretty frustrated as well with the reffing and the continual calls against us. Indeed they have a much better memory of various incidents than I do and mentioned several that I had forgotten about. The CSA needs to ensure that the reffing is of better quality and impartial if it wants to maintain the integrity of the competition.

"Biased," "continual calls against us," and, best, "the CSA needs to ensure that the reffing is [...] impartial if it wants to maintain the integrity of the competition."

You're the best, Griz! Keep it up! Everyone's always out to get those oh, so hard done by Impact and no one else has ever had a bad call go against them.

Tin foil hats anyone?

[masster]

On the whole, I thought the ref was fine. Yes, the dive by Marlon James was a bad call, but how many times do we see refs fall for dives in Europe. I was standing right behind the goal and Marlon fooled me too. This is not a problem that is unique to Canadian officials. The only other call that I thought he got really wrong was when Rocco pulled down Janicki and he called the foul on Janicki. 2 poor calls in an entire game is not that bad.

Compare this to some of the poor officiating that we have seen in previous edition's of the Voyageur's Cup (Montreal @ TFC final match 2008, Rocco's phantom offside goal in 2009), and I will tale Gamble's performance any day.