Ukraine - Canada , October friendly

[El Hombre]

I don't have a problem with seeing some p/t to Occean and others but I'm getting tired of the Friend bashing. He has looked as good as any player for Canada and has started very well with Hertha. Hart has a known quantity there. Top player in a very good league.

Agree.

What people forget is that the only reason Simpson was able to get at the ball against Honduras was because Friend had the attention of three (3!) Hondurans. He may not score a lot of goals himself but he makes room for others. I did an analysis sometime last year comparing the goals scored by Canada when Gerba's on the pitch against the number of goals scored while Friend is on the pitch and they weren't that dissimilar.

[loyola]

I don't have a problem with seeing some p/t to Occean and others but I'm getting tired of the Friend bashing. He has looked as good as any player for Canada and has started very well with Hertha. Hart has a known quantity there. Top player in a very good league.

I don't think I'm a Friend basher but I'm one of his critic since as a target man he hasn't been effective for Canada lately, too many times he gives the ball away. I remember his performance against Costa Rica at the 2007 GC where he was excellent and I don't think he has offer a performance like that in the last games I've seen him play. But I also think that some of the criticisms are unjustified because he is also often victim of poor service and rarely has a good opportunity. This was clear during the last 2 games where some crosses pass 3 meters over his head...

True, Hart has a good player in Friend but this player doesn't seem to connect really well with his teammates, so maybe it's worth trying other people if we are going to use a lone target man.

[loyola]

Agree.

What people forget is that the only reason Simpson was able to get at the ball against Honduras was because Friend had the attention of three (3!) Hondurans. He may not score a lot of goals himself but he makes room for others. I did an analysis sometime last year comparing the goals scored by Canada when Gerba's on the pitch against the number of goals scored while Friend is on the pitch and they weren't that dissimilar.

TBH, this was a free for all in the box after the 2 saves by the keeper and the Hondurans defenders were attract by the ball. I'm not sure they were there because of Friend, I think they were trying to follow the ball and get it out of their box....which they did not do

[Guest Ed]

I don't think I'm a Friend basher but I'm one of his critic since as a target man he hasn't been effective for Canada lately, too many times he gives the ball away. I remember his performance against Costa Rica at the 2007 GC where he was excellent and I don't think he has offer a performance like that in the last games I've seen him play. But I also think that some of the criticisms are unjustified because he is also often victim of poor service and rarely has a good opportunity. This was clear during the last 2 games where some crosses pass 3 meters over his head...

True, Hart has a good player in Friend but this player doesn't seem to connect really well with his teammates, so maybe it's worth trying other people if we are going to use a lone target man.

Well I've watched all the recent games and he doesn't give the ball away; I've heard many people say that but I really don't know how you can watch the games and state that. Not to the extent that it is an issue. He just doesn't see that much of the ball. He is one of the top ranked strikers in the 2nd division of Germany which is no slouch.

[Guest Ed]

TBH, this was a free for all in the box after the 2 saves by the keeper and the Hondurans defenders were attract by the ball. I'm not sure they were there because of Friend, I think they were trying to follow the ball and get it out of their box....which they did not do

Right, those two things that body slammed Friend trying to prevent him heading it in must have been holographs.

[loyola]

Well I've watched all the recent games and he doesn't give the ball away; I've heard many people say that but I really don't know how you can watch the games and state that. Not to the extent that it is an issue. He just doesn't see that much of the ball. He is one of the top ranked strikers in the 2nd division of Germany which is no slouch.

Where did I say he isn't a good player? I'm just said I'm not convinced by his performances with Canada. Maybe Friend is the kind of guy who needs more time to developp chemistry with his teammates just like he can do at the club level?

We know it, success at the club level doesn't always mean success with Canada.

As for the giveaways, from what I saw I thought he didn't do a good job at holding onto the ball and using support in both games. I guess the best way to determine if it's an issue is too count them but to me it looked like it was too many.

[loyola]

Right, those two things that body slammed Friend trying to prevent him heading it in must have been holographs.

What I obviously meant is those defenders weren't throwing a special defense because of Friend presence, they were naturally there. They weren't there because of him.

[jc_nunezst]

Hi from Peru. As I stated some time ago i have followed the canadian MNT since 1998 and tried to watch all the games that i had available here in peru and youtube. From my POV i see a good player in Friend. He lacks technical ability but is effective. He needs someone to feed the balls to him properly. JDG should play the creative role, but he is too far in back. Friends is a good player who needs to be helped by his team. Remember Corazzin in GC 2000? Nash was the one sending the balls (mexico) corazzin was slow (however is my favorite fwd despite not being the best) but managed to score goals. That was because the team was compact.

I guess this thread was supposed to be canada vs ukraine, but has becase " Now time to bash Friend thread"

Now, about the game in october. I really would have liked to see Gerba there. I dont think Haber is going to be the key to score. I don´t see him National Team quality yet.

I remember Hume used to play as FWD why is he in the midfield?

[El Hombre]

What I obviously meant is those defenders weren't throwing a special defense because of Friend presence, they were naturally there.

They were naturally there, but all three focused on Friend because he's the big man up front. This allowed Simpson to come in from whereever he came in and punch the goal home.

That's part of what Friend brings to the table. I wasn't able to see if but I wouldn't be surprised if, for the corner, the Hondurans focused on Friend again which allowed McKenna to go back post.

I've said it before: a striker's job isn't just to score goals. If you can put a guy up there that will create space for others to score, that's just as good. This is why I'd like to see Gerba and Friend together. As we've seen, Gerba doesn't need much space to create something so put the two of them together and good things could happen. Leave Friend all alone up front to be covered by two CBs? Not sure what you are expecting to happen by doing that.

[Keegan]

I know Haber isn't going to be key to scoring but he is only 21 years old playing first team football and coming off a stellar rookie pro year its time we got him into a MNT camp, chances are he may not even see the pitch vs. Ukraine but it will be a good experience for our young striker. Haber has a lot of potential and could develop to be even better than Friend. Don't get me wrong with my comment Friend is one of my favourite Canadian players but at the moment there is only one striker slot and we need to put the player who is best for the team in that slot... Occean, Gerba, Friend, Haber, Jackson... whoever that may be

[loyola]

They were naturally there, but all three focused on Friend because he's the big man up front. This allowed Simpson to come in from whereever he came in and punch the goal home.

That's part of what Friend brings to the table. I wasn't able to see if but I wouldn't be surprised if, for the corner, the Hondurans focused on Friend again which allowed McKenna to go back post.

I've said it before: a striker's job isn't just to score goals. If you can put a guy up there that will create space for others to score, that's just as good. This is why I'd like to see Gerba and Friend together. As we've seen, Gerba doesn't need much space to create something so put the two of them together and good things could happen. Leave Friend all alone up front to be covered by two CBs? Not sure what you are expecting to happen by doing that.

Change Simpson for Friend on that play and I'm pretty sure the Hondurans would still go all out for the high ball even if it's the smaller Simpson who's challenging.

I agree that it's good to have a big player that is drawing attention like Friend, but I think most of our big guys will draw similar attention in the box.

[gator]

I half jokingly sugested earlier in the thread that we play 3 big strikers: Friend, OO and Haber!Yesterday I was discussing the merits of doing this against a CONCACAF rival! It's not as crazy as you might think, lots of these teams are vertically challenged although they tend to have good sized CB's! As El Hombre points out, Friend draws alot of attention, imagine 3 big guys in there!

[Grizzly]

I think the first thing people criticizing Friend have to realize is he is not a target man. There is a difference between a tall striker and a target man and Friend is a tall striker. It seems like Hart is finally starting to realize this too hence playing him with two offensive wings instead of leaving him alone up front. In Germany, Friend usually receives service from the side not behind. He is usually part of 3 men rushes where they either feed him or use him to make space for the other attackers. Against Honduras he performed this role very well and created a lot of space in the attacking zone which may have been more apparent at the stadium than on tv. Also there were a number of times he got free and was in perfect scoring position but Simpson (accuracy on passes/crosses is inconsistent but gets the odd good one in) and especially Jackson (very poor passer/crosser) failed to feed him. Friend is also a pretty decent passer of the ball but Jackson in particular often did not receive the ball very well.

I would be interested in seeing how OO plays with Jackson and Simpson and maybe Haber as a sub. In the end, Friend is a certain type of striker and if we don't have the type of players to complement him it might be better to use other players. On the other hand, in the Honduras game I started seeing signs that we did have the players to use him effectively even if Simpson/Jackson need to improve the quality of their passes and crosses. I would also like to see Friend with Gerba who actually has decent passing and set up abilities as well as being able to take a pass and quickly convert it into a shot. Previously we had seen an out of shape Gerba who didn't add much to the attack other than being able to strike the ball well when he was set up. Now he is fit and running around playing a more complete game while still scoring so I would like to see what a Friend/Gerba attack could do especially with Simpson.

[Slamo]

I half jokingly sugested earlier in the thread that we play 3 big strikers: Friend, OO and Haber!Yesterday I was discussing the merits of doing this against a CONCACAF rival! It's not as crazy as you might think, lots of these teams are vertically challenged although they tend to have good sized CB's! As El Hombre points out, Friend draws alot of attention, imagine 3 big guys in there!

I didn't think you were joking

Haber and OO are both good with the ball and Friend is all about finish...Haber is fine breaking down a defender like a smaller player. I would like to see that front line in WCQ with Simpson and ?? on the wings...attack with 5 and keep the smaller speedy oppostion wing backs (most backs in CONCACAF) out of the attack. Make the opposition score on one on one plays or crosses from the outside where we should also have advantage with our CB's.

[TFCRegina]

I know Haber isn't going to be key to scoring but he is only 21 years old playing first team football and coming off a stellar rookie pro year its time we got him into a MNT camp, chances are he may not even see the pitch vs. Ukraine but it will be a good experience for our young striker. Haber has a lot of potential and could develop to be even better than Friend. Don't get me wrong with my comment Friend is one of my favourite Canadian players but at the moment there is only one striker slot and we need to put the player who is best for the team in that slot... Occean, Gerba, Friend, Haber, Jackson... whoever that may be

We need two striker spots if you ask me...

[Scottie]

In Germany, Friend usually receives service from the side not behind.

That's going in my signature.

[Grizzly]

That's going in my signature.

Actually my original sentence had something about balls so I thought this one was better! Sometimes it is hard to express what you mean without an unintended meaning appearing.

[CanadasBest]

With regards to Friend he's a great league player. He's just not suitable as an international striker. You guys make great points about the lack of service and that there is my point.

In league competition Rob Friend plays 40+ games per year and trains day in and day out with his teamates. In the international game we play 6-8 games per year and he doesn't even come out or get called due to injury etc. on some of those games. Friend has had some moments, but overall has been clearly ineffective for Canada, and whether or not it's on him personally is not the point. We just don't have TIME to develope our attack around one person. He has been ineffective where others have been quite effective, most notably Gerba.

We're having problems scoring goals and his strike rate is just not acceptable at the international level.

[TFCRegina]

I think the first thing people criticizing Friend have to realize is he is not a target man. There is a difference between a tall striker and a target man and Friend is a tall striker. It seems like Hart is finally starting to realize this too hence playing him with two offensive wings instead of leaving him alone up front. In Germany, Friend usually receives service from the side not behind. He is usually part of 3 men rushes where they either feed him or use him to make space for the other attackers. Against Honduras he performed this role very well and created a lot of space in the attacking zone which may have been more apparent at the stadium than on tv. Also there were a number of times he got free and was in perfect scoring position but Simpson (accuracy on passes/crosses is inconsistent but gets the odd good one in) and especially Peters (very poor passer/crosser) failed to feed him. Friend is also a pretty decent passer of the ball but Jackson in particular often did not receive the ball very well.

I would be interested in seeing how OO plays with Jackson and Simpson and maybe Haber as a sub. In the end, Friend is a certain type of striker and if we don't have the type of players to complement him it might be better to use other players. On the other hand, in the Honduras game I started seeing signs that we did have the players to use him effectively even if Simpson/Jackson need to improve the quality of their passes and crosses. I would also like to see Friend with Gerba who actually has decent passing and set up abilities as well as being able to take a pass and quickly convert it into a shot. Previously we had seen an out of shape Gerba who didn't add much to the attack other than being able to strike the ball well when he was set up. Now he is fit and running around playing a more complete game while still scoring so I would like to see what a Friend/Gerba attack could do especially with Simpson.

Let's not bash Peters too much. According to his teammates in England he's actually quite a good player going forward.

[Havoc88]

Hey guys, just thought I'd add Julian Uccello has gotten the call up as well.

Looks like we're going to see new faces who look to be hungry to make an impact.

[TFCRegina]

Hey guys, just thought I'd add Julian Uccello has gotten the call up as well.

Looks like we're going to see new faces who look to be hungry to make an impact.

I wonder if we're going 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 this time around?

[loyola]

Hey guys, just thought I'd add Julian Uccello has gotten the call up as well.

Looks like we're going to see new faces who look to be hungry to make an impact.

Congrats to Little and Big Bird for this first MNT call up!

Our striking force will be compose of a lot of new faces.

[TFCRegina]

Congrats to Little and Big Bird for this first MNT call up!

Our striking force will be compose of a lot of new faces.

I know I say this a lot. But this search for depth is going to pay off when it comes around to the World Cup Qualifiers and Gold Cup.

When injuries and suspensions strike our A squad we're going to have guys who are playing decent football to back them up. I'm glad the CSA finally gets it.

[Havoc88]

I think it's also worth noting there is a handful of guys now forming, or could form, a core of players with REALLY good attitudes. I hope this is something that is being weighed into the program over the next year.

[TFCRegina]

I think it's also worth noting there is a handful of guys now forming, or could form, a core of players with REALLY good attitudes. I hope this is something that is being weighed into the program over the next year.

Excellent point. I think Canada will have a solid squad. If we could ever get JDG2 back, I think we'd have a pretty strong squad (all things held the same) over the next two/three World Cup cycles.

I actually don't see much of a drop occurring with the other two MLS sides coming in.