May 27 - Voyageurs Cup: Montreal vs Toronto [R]

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by SilverSamurai

I don't think anyone expects you to be able to control EVERY single little thing or action. It would be unrealistic to do so.

Oh don't worry about that. We control the UM02 alright, we just have had problems controlling new guys who don't understand they shouldn't be running around to take on 400 away supporters on their own.

What people don't realize is that more often than not, problems come from independent fans, not from the Ultras (unless they're coming from Rochester, but that's another story, there's no love lost between us, especially with the events of last season). We don't control the whole section 114, nor do we aim to control it (apart from the singing, tifos, and such). One guy slipped through our fingers, but other than that I assure you no UM02 was out to hunt TFC fans.

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

Is Belgium still the place to go for sex changes?

I'm flexible.

Holy hell. We do need a break. [xx(]

[Trident]

Glad to see it's cooling down.

But it was quite rude to see Mpenza called out for bringing territorial and hooligan ideals here from Belgium. For a country that likes to portray themselves as progressive and inviting to all nationalities, you who took part in the nationality based bashing should be ashamed.

Don't think everyone wanted you at the 99, but the evil Belgian man brainwashed all of us into thinking we should defend it.

I was born in Canada, raised in Canada, and come from the purest of Canadian ancestry(Canadian before men with pale skin came here ) and I didn't want you to go to The 99 either.

Away supporters are welcome to come, if they have been given the OK. Thats not to say you can only come if invited, it's just that you will be welcomed.

[SilverSamurai]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

Oh don't worry about that. We control the UM02 alright, we just have had problems controlling new guys who don't understand they shouldn't be running around to take on 400 away supporters on their own.

What people don't realize is that more often than not, problems come from independent fans, not from the Ultras (unless they're coming from Rochester, but that's another story, there's no love lost between us, especially with the events of last season). We don't control the whole section 114, nor do we aim to control it (apart from the singing, tifos, and such). One guy slipped through our fingers, but other than that I assure you no UM02 was out to hunt TFC fans.

That's what my guess was. The 1 village idiot (for lack of better term) is who started this all.

TFC supporters have the same problem. Not everyone in the supporters section is part of RPB or U-Sector, etc. so you sometimes get the 1 idiot doing something stupid.

Hopefully this is as worst as it gets.

And I just saw the mini "tunnel" exit from a youtube video. Man that's an eyesore. Hopefully that'll get cleaned up soon.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

.

That said, you got everything wrong. All Voyageurs ARE welcome at the 99 on June 20. Nobody is going to give you trouble for supporting Canada. It's an international WC qualifier, there's no club sh*t going on that day. I was planning to drop by at the 99 to say hi at the request of Winnipeg Fury, who sounds like a great guy, and maybe even lend my voice in 114 for the occaison, but now I'll just pass, because you are a f*cking asshole and I don'T want to be anywhere near you on that day.

I love it !

When the sh*t hits the fan, we are ALL on the same side. And we are all going to the big show in 2010 to support Canada.

We are ALL going to be at Bar 99 on June 20. Mpenza, I love your spirit. I'm buying you a drink. I am going to introduce you to my good friend Rudi. Drinks are on me.

Bailey, you better be there. I may need to argue with you about the Toronto Blizzard.

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

Mpenza, I love your spirit. I'm buying you a drink. I am going to introduce you to my good friend Rudi. Drinks are on me.

Thanks but no thanks. I've had it with the Voyageurs to be honest. This afternoon's xenophobic bashing was too much for me. You do your sh*t, I'll do mine and that's going to be it.

[Winnipeg Fury]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

Thanks but no thanks. I've had it with the Voyageurs to be honest. This afternoon's xenophobic bashing was too much for me. You do your sh*t, I'll do mine and that's going to be it.

You will be far from the first to leave here frustrated. Some come back, some don't.

Don't hesitate to drop by. All the best.

[Montreal_FC_fan]

Go Lynx Go!!!

[Montreal_FC_fan]

What a funny thread... Could we turn the page already?

Anyways, Im looking forward to be in 114 for the Canada game with all the jolly voyagers!

If you want to do us a favor "especially me" don't show up in your TFC or Vancouver gear... It's going to be a CANADA game so let's keep it that way!

Cheers!

[piltdownman]

Vancouver gear? what kind of Muppets do you take us for? its not even the right colour

[DarnCherry]

Very entertaining thread everyone!

Well Done!

[Trident]

Best part of all my recent reading of Toronto..and a lesser extent, Vancouver fans: they love british terms: kicking off, ace, muppet, etc.

[SilverSamurai]

quote:Originally posted by piltdownman

Vancouver gear? what kind of Muppets do you take us for? its not even the right colour

Well it would match the seats...

I was considering wearing my TFC scarf, but think I'll keep it here though.

I'll def. be wearing the luchador mask though. Too bad it's blue and silver but I'm looking into getting a red and silver one. Just not sure if I'll have it in time for the match.

Onwards!

[SilverSamurai]

quote:Originally posted by Trident

Best part of all my recent reading of Toronto..and a lesser extent, Vancouver fans: they love british terms: kicking off, ace, muppet, etc.

Most of the British terms I hear make me go: huh?! [?]

I'm not donning the TFC kits, no 1 get your panties ina knot. Canada kit for sure. No question about that!

[Grizzly]

I attended the game Tuesday and witnessed/was part of several of the incidents and have also been reading the comments posted on several of the boards. This is my take on the incidents and what I think we should try to do as various fan groups which I intend to post on the various sites. Regarding myself I have been a Voyageur for more years than I like to think of and while I have not officially joined the Ultras Montreal I have been attending those Impact games I can (usually about 1/3 of the games) and have always sat with them, sung with them and at times gone to the post-game bar meeting. After the recent Vancouver game I mentioned to Daniel that I wanted to officially join the Ultras. I also lived many years in Europe (mostly in Germany and for a shorter time in Russia) and have experienced a lot of hooligan incidents during this time. At times even if one does not want to get involved in European hooliganism sometimes the situation requires it just for self-defence. Yet it is a mistake to think that hooliganism is inevitable or the norm of European football. For every time the fans of my team had problems traveling in Germany there were just as many times in which the opposing fans started getting on the train as we neared their city and drank with us on the train, went with us to a bar before the game, we yelled out insults at each other during the game but met up for more drinks after the game. I remember all of these teams that welcomed us like this in a good light and am always happy when I see them doing well in the standings. European football can also have a very nice fan culture full of passion yet not escalating to violence and that is what I would like to see established in Canada.

Here is my accounts of the events as I saw them:

Walking downtown on the day of the game I saw numerous fans in TFC shirts and scarves. While this might not please every Impact fan, I thought it was pretty cool because it was the first time I have ever seen this in Montreal and the first time I ever had the impression while in downtown Montreal that a game was going to take place and in fact a game with some atmosphere. The TFC fans I saw downtown were well behaved.

I went to the game with Speedmonk and a female friend of his who were both wearing TFC colours, a friend of ours from Montreal who didn't have any colours and a German guy who lives in Montreal. I was wearing an Impact scarf. We intended to go to Bar 99 first and see what was going on there. If there is anyone who could be considered a fan of all 3 Canadian teams it is Speedmonk as he is from Vancouver, lived in Montreal several times and currently lives in Toronto. The weekend before he had come to Montreal for the Saputo Stadium opening and stood with the Ultras and had a few drinks with several of them after the game so there was certainly no disrespect intended on his part by showing up at Bar 99. Since we weren't certain of the situation at the bar I entered first as I was wearing the Impact colours. Had there been Ultras who had a problem with their presence we would have gone elsewhere. When I entered there was only one guy wearing an Impact scarf in the bar and he was obviously not an Ultra as he was eating with his family. There were three TFC fans who were also eating, very friendly and obviously not hooligans and one other guy without colours who was friendly to everyone and told me he was going to join the Ultras and was indeed in section 114 afterwards. Later a friend of mine who is a season ticket holder in 114 and also wants to officially join the Ultras joined us wearing an Impact scarf. The situation when the Ultras arrived was 5 TFC fans with scarves and 3 Impact fans with scarves with several other people drinking together.

The Ultras came in with 3 adult looking guys and 4 teenagers and walked up to the three other TFC guys and started aggressively yelling at them and threatening to fight them. Fortunately everyone initially thought they were joking so there was very little reaction at first which helped stop the situation from escalating. It was also quickly apparent that these three TFC guys were in no way hooligans nor looking for a fight. In fact, if they had been approached in a less aggressive manner I think they would have finished their beers and left if they felt they were offending the Ultras by their presence. Anyway the Ultras did leave without starting a fight. Pretty much everyone in the bar including those from Montreal were very surprised and displeased by this incident. During the game I spotted the leader of this group in 114 and went to talk to him about what happened. Instead of being an asshole he was actually a nice guy and said he thought they were trying to take over our bar and once he realized they were not hooligan types he felt bad about the situation and left. He even told me if I saw the guys I could apologize to them from him.

In conclusion about this incident, I don't know if these three guys were from one of the supporter's groups but even if they were not everyone reads the forums. There are not a lot of bars around the stadium and I think these guys just wandered into Bar 99 not thinking there would be any problem nor trying to provoke the Ultras. Also from the Ultras side of things if Bar 99 is going to be our bar we need to have a significant presence there before the game. If there are no Ultras at the bar when opposing fans arrive it is pretty hard to fault them for staying. Nor should an aggressive threatening response be the first reaction if anyone inadvertently comes into our bar. The particular Ultra guys who came into the bar dealt with it in the wrong way but the main guy has apologized and in the end no one was hurt so I think this incident can be forgotten as unfortunate.

After this we arrived at the stadium and it was in my opinion pretty awesome to see so many fans of both teams. Before the game I went up to the TFC section to talk with Speedmonk and even waved my scarf in front of all the TFC fans without any problems other than the usual bantering. I was quite happy to hear that even the normal family type Impact fans who in the past seemed more interested in the guy shooting t-shirts into the crowd than the game were actually chanting things against the TFC chants as well. This was the first time I had seen any singing from anyone other than those in the Ultras section at an Impact game.

I went to the Ultras section feeling like this was the first real football game I had attended in Montreal with the Impact. As much as I hope we win all our USL games and will admit the league has improved over the years it is sometimes hard to get very motivated for USL games. This was the first time I really felt we were playing for something important and that I really cared whether we won or not. We sang very loud and had a great atmosphere going in our section and it seemed like TFC did likewise. Unfortunately the stadium is very open and the sound does not carry so we could hardly hear the TFC fans and they probably couldn't hear us either. In retrospect of what happened this may have been a good thing though. Since there is only one washroom for the south and end stand all the fans mixed at halftime but there didn't seem to be any problem.

Regarding the game, the Impact played better than I expected and TFC was poorer than I expected. In the end TFC were very lucky to get a win. One could see that the TFC players were physically stronger though. We were very hurt by losing our best player DiLorenzo but that was negated somewhat by TFC losing Dichio. Mostly our problem was that our strikers finished poorly as usual while the TFC players with the exception of Cunningham seemed a bit more dangerous around the net. The lack of finishing of the USL players (we really should have had at least one goal in the 1st half) and the physical strength difference seemed the main difference between the two groups of players.

After the game the first stupidity of the security occurred. We wanted to keep singing until the TFC fans had been cleared from the stadium since it was our stadium and we should be the last to leave. However, a large number of security came over and made us leave. Any security group should know that keeping the supporters groups apart as long as possible is a good thing and in wanting to stay we would be inadvertently also helping them prevent any problems. Possibly had we been allowed to stay no-one would have gone over to the fence to taunt the TFC fans.

Once we were kicked out the security made their second big mistake. A group of us were folding up the banners when I looked and saw security inexplicably about to bring three TFC guys through our Ultra group. I realized this was not going to be good and decided to try and defuse things by at least talking to the TFC guys and trying to get them to move through quickly. The guy I talked to at first seemed friendly and willing to move through but his friends seemingly emboldened by having 7 or 8 security guards with them seemed to want to cause some **** and started arguing and insulting the Ultras. I am aware that a certain amount of banter will occur in such situations but these guys went way overboard. Seeing this the guy who I was actually trying to be nice to and help unexpectedly violently shoved me when I least expected it which would have led to a fight had security not jumped in at that point and took the guys away. While we were certainly in the wrong in the Bar 99 incident, these three guys were equally out of line here. While most of the TFC and Impact fans were well behaved there were exceptions to this on both sides.

Following this one of my friends and I headed to the main exit and caught the tail end of the incident where a small group of Impact fans apparently attacked a much larger group of TFC fans. I could see the tail end of the fracas up on the hill and though I couldn't really see what had happened I heard enough first hand descriptions immediately after the incident that I can believe that this is what happened. Of course this was caused to a large extent by security forcing the TFC fans to leave the stadium to where a group of Impact fans were taunting them instead of trying to keep everyone separate as would be logical. Despite this incident and the fact me and my friend were wearing Impact scarves, the TFC fans were all friendly to us. We also had no problem on the metro despite the wagon being full mostly of TFC supporters. In all I think the game was a resounding success with a few regretful incidents from both sides that hopefully we will be able to avoid in the future. The majority of fans from both sides and members of all of the supporters groups were well behaved and it was only a small minority who caused problems. I know all of the main people in U-sector and the Ultras and as far as I could tell none of them were involved with nor responsible for any of the situations that developed. The Montreal security did not deal with the situation adequately and it was astounding that there did not appear to be one police officer at the game or in the vicinity of the stadium. I have always seen a few police at or nearby Canadiens and Alouettes games and also around any large gathering in Montreal so it is pretty hard to explain their absence at this game. If some officers who might actually arrest people were there instead of the unprofessional security guards a few people may have been more careful of their actions.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Awful security seems to be another trademark of the USL.

[Mr.Impact]

Ok We Get it!

There is a small minority of TARDS in both groups that caused the Majority of incidents:D

Nuff said

[VPjr]

I had a great time at the game, I like Stade Saputo alot, I was impressed that the Impact's supporters group was quite loud and the TIFO was good and I was very impressed with how loud and non-stop my fellow TFC supporters were during the game.

On a scale of 1 to 10, the overall experience was a 9 only because the game wasn't a classic by any means.

I look forward to the next time TFC visits Monteal because I intend to return and I'll be bringing more of my fellow TFC supporters with me.

I witnessed some of the stupidity that took place post game. I agree with anyone who points the finger first and foremost at the Security people working the game. They are clearly not accustomed to away support.

As for the issues that happened at the bar, I wasn't anywhere near there and it doesn't appear to have been much of an incident (based on Grizzly's report) but I'm truly disappointed that TFC fans are not welcome in the bar frequented by the Montreal Ultra group without an invitation. I'll respect the request on future visits to Montreal for a match but it leaves me scratching my head because it's been my experience that away fans who come to T.O. to support their teams are perfectly welcome at the main watering holes where you will find TFC supporters pre and post game. They might get a little stick from the TFC fans but they are treated well and I've never seen an away fan verbally abused or intimidated.

It's one thing to try to "out-support" each other in the stadium (and possibly use less than polite language in the process) but I would hope that pre and post game, we could come together for some beers and talk about the game that brings us together in the first place.

I'm hopeful that a good number of Impact fans come to Toronto for the re-match. Come for a beer along King St. Wear your scarves. Be our guests.

[VPjr]

I had a great time at the game, I like Stade Saputo alot, I was impressed that the Impact's supporters group was quite loud and the TIFO was good and I was very impressed with how loud and non-stop my fellow TFC supporters were during the game.

On a scale of 1 to 10, the overall experience was a 9 only because the game wasn't a classic by any means.

I look forward to the next time TFC visits Monteal because I intend to return and I'll be bringing more of my fellow TFC supporters with me.

I witnessed some of the stupidity that took place post game. I agree with anyone who points the finger first and foremost at the Security people working the game. They are clearly not accustomed to away support.

As for the issues that happened at the bar, I wasn't anywhere near there and it doesn't appear to have been much of an incident (based on Grizzly's report) but I'm truly disappointed that TFC fans are not welcome in the bar frequented by the Montreal Ultra group without an invitation. I'll respect the request on future visits to Montreal for a match but it leaves me scratching my head because it's been my experience that away fans who come to T.O. to support their teams are perfectly welcome at the main watering holes where you will find TFC supporters pre and post game. They might get a little stick from the TFC fans but they are treated well and I've never seen an away fan verbally abused or intimidated.

It's one thing to try to "out-support" each other in the stadium (and possibly use less than polite language in the process) but I would hope that pre and post game, we could come together for some beers and talk about the game that brings us together in the first place.

I'm hopeful that a good number of Impact fans come to Toronto for the re-match. Come for a beer along King St. Wear your scarves. Be our guests.

[themodelcitizen]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

I'm truly disappointed that TFC fans are not welcome in the bar frequented by the Montreal Ultra group without an invitation. I'll respect the request on future visits to Montreal for a match but it leaves me scratching my head because it's been my experience that away fans who come to T.O. to support their teams are perfectly welcome at the main watering holes where you will find TFC supporters pre and post game. They might get a little stick from the TFC fans but they are treated well and I've never seen an away fan verbally abused or intimidated.

It's one thing to try to "out-support" each other in the stadium (and possibly use less than polite language in the process) but I would hope that pre and post game, we could come together for some beers and talk about the game that brings us together in the first place.

I'm hopeful that a good number of Impact fans come to Toronto for the re-match. Come for a beer along King St. Wear your scarves. Be our guests.

I think it's not much of an issue in T.O. because there's no chance an away team will come in numbers that far outstrip the local supporters' groups, which UM02 may have been wary of (having hundreds of TFC fans descend on their pub).

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

I love it !

When the sh*t hits the fan, we are ALL on the same side. And we are all going to the big show in 2010 to support Canada.

We are ALL going to be at Bar 99 on June 20. Mpenza, I love your spirit. I'm buying you a drink. I am going to introduce you to my good friend Rudi. Drinks are on me.

Bailey, you better be there. I may need to argue with you about the Toronto Blizzard.

I'll be wearing my TFC shirt although, as I sort of said earlier, if the bar isn't welcome to TFC supporter's, I'm not sure I'm interested in being there even for a Canada match.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by dbailey62

I'll be wearing my TFC shirt although, as I sort of said earlier, if the bar isn't welcome to TFC supporter's, I'm not sure I'm interested in being there even for a Canada match.

You and me both, db.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by dbailey62

I'll be wearing my TFC shirt although, as I sort of said earlier, if the bar isn't welcome to TFC supporter's, I'm not sure I'm interested in being there even for a Canada match.

This is where I strongly disagree with you and Rudi. This is a Canada match and what is required is Canada kit. This is normal in all the world. If Germany is playing in Dortmund the Munich fans don't come wearing Bayern kit. I personally don't care if people want to wear TFC jerseys but many Montreal fans do and I respect their feelings. I would estimate maybe 1/3 of the Ultras Montreal will show up for this match but there will also be plenty of other non-Ultra Montreal fans. Nobody is ordering people not to wear their colours and I don't think there will be any threat of violence to those who do. Yet, there is also a question of respectful behaviour. Canada is playing at our stadium and we welcome anyone supporting Canada from wherever they are. Wearing club colours at a Canada match is not supporting Canada it is supporting your club. This is disrespectful to the many Montreal fans who do not like TFC because it is our rival but who otherwise would welcome you to support Canada together. Yes you have a legal right to wear what you want. You also have a legal right to be a stubborn ass. I am personally asking people to have a bit of respect for the club that is hosting this match. At a Canada game everyone should be wearing Canada kit, end of story. I will lose a lot of respect for those who want to stubborn asses and come to a Canada match dressed as a TFC fans.

[Winnipeg Fury]

Let's keep in mind the vast majority of Canadian fans do not own a Canada kit. Most people could not find one if their life depended on it. How many of the Montreal Ultras that will be present own a Canada kit ? I'm guessing very few. I'm sure the same can be said for the TFC fans.

If you don't own a Canada kit, wear red. If that means wearing a Montreal Canadians jersey, Impact jersey, TFC jersey, Man U jersey, who cares........regardless where in Canada we play, you should be in red.

I honestly can't see anyone wearing their clubs colours over Canada's if they actually own a Canada kit.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Winnipeg Fury

Let's keep in mind the vast majority of Canadian fans do not own a Canada kit. Most people could not find one if their life depended on it. How many of the Montreal Ultras that will be present own a Canada kit ? I'm guessing very few. I'm sure the same can be said for the TFC fans.

If you don't own a Canada kit, wear red. If that means wearing a Montreal Canadians jersey, Impact jersey, TFC jersey, Man U jersey, who cares........regardless where in Canada we play, you should be in red.

I honestly can't see anyone wearing their clubs colours over Canada's if they actually own a Canada kit.

2 or 3 years ago I could buy this argument. Yet in recent times it has actually become pretty easy to buy a Canada kit. If I wanted to buy one tomorrow I could at several stores within walking distance of my house. There is also that rather old invention called the internet, ie. you could buy one pretty easy if you lived at the North Pole and have it within a week. If people can't find one if their life depended on it as you claim they must be pretty inept. If you are spending the money to come to Montreal for a Canada game then spend the money to buy a Canada shirt. If you can't buy one wear a red shirt but not a club shirt. A Canada match is the place to wear a Canada shirt, it is simple as that.