May 27 - Voyageurs Cup: Montreal vs Toronto [R]

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

It is unfair because he is not supporting anything like that, and niehter is any of UM02.

Bull****. If you don't fight it you are supporting it.

As far as I am concerned, his statements regarding their bar stink of: "Aww, you known darn well that blacks aren't welcome. They should know better." It's imported tribalism and I won't tolerate that or let it slide, or be cowed by his pitiful 'pick on the foreigners' defence.

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

haha. Belgian hoolie in Montreal. i know i'm scared. what's that expression about throwing stones in glass houses? oh wait, that was so 2002. how about people shouldn't throw stones when your firm is outnumbered 3 to 1 in your own stadium? will you be travelling to BMO?

This what we don't need.

Refuse this. You are falling prey to actions of a very few idiots.

Yes, I hope Mpenza ect.. come to BMO. Doesn't the Liberty have lots of Belgian beer!

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

haha. Belgian hoolie in Montreal. i know i'm scared. what's that expression about throwing stones in glass houses? oh wait, that was so 2002. how about people shouldn't throw stones when your firm is outnumbered 3 to 1 in your own stadium? will you be travelling to BMO?

This what we don't need.

Refuse this. You are falling prey to actions of a very few idiots.

Yes, I hope Mpenza ect.. come to BMO. Doesn't the Liberty have lots of Belgian beer!

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

haha. Belgian hoolie in Montreal. i know i'm scared. what's that expression about throwing stones in glass houses? oh wait, that was so 2002. how about people shouldn't throw stones when your firm is outnumbered 3 to 1 in your own stadium? will you be travelling to BMO?

Dude, it's already been determined that you're an asswipe, no need to prove the theory.

I'm not saying I'm gonna throw stones (as a matter of fact, I've already mentioned to the Impact TWICE that they should remove those rocks, because it's a security issue, but nobody seems to care). If you can concentrate hard enough, maybe you can read a little bit between the lines. Hint : we're talking about "escalation".

And yes I will be at BMO. Everytime we play, I will be there.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

I understand where you're coming from in terms of wanting to avoid escalation. But it's the wrong place. We all get along here for the most part when it comes to getting out to matches Canada or otherwise. I know that Rudi, like myself and most of us, can be a little twat on the board, but I can't see him or the Keays or Gianluca starting a fight.

Talk about damning with faint praise

quote:You should be posting this stuff on the RPB site or somewhere else. And if you really want to be as diplomatic as you say, why not have somebody who knows both groups, like Daniel, give Rudi a call and ask him to explicitly tell U-Sector not to go to your bar if you really feel it necessary to keep the peace. Did you try that on the U-Sector site?

For the record, I'll gladly drink with whomever, as long as I know that I won't be jumped from behind or shanked with a stone for my troubles.

I was in DC for the TFC game on Saturday when the Bar 99 stuff was posted on the U-Sector site, and I only saw it when I logged onto the internet (for the first time in days) a few hours before the match in Montreal. At that point, it was too late for me to post anything on our board about not going to Bar 99, as everyone was already either in MTL or on the way.

I sent a mass text message telling everyone I had on my phone that was going to the game to avoid Bar 99, after receiving a call from speedmonk about the stupidity that took place earlier in the day.

I know that both groups as a policy do not go looking for trouble, but at the same time I remember the stories of our guys getting jumped a few years ago.

Mpenza, no one needs your "help" in defending ourselves. But just let it be known that those punks at Saputo weren't even the first group to try to attack us that week (that was a few misguided Barra Brava wearing F-UCK Canada shirts in DC), so as such we tend to stand together quite well.

I'm also glad that you guys are speaking out against the actions of those morons on the UM02 site.

I'm not sure what you mean by "this isn't 2002 any more" though. It comes across as a thinly-veiled threat, which I don't really understand.

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

Please don't give up. I don't know what crawled up Ed's ass.

It's not just him you know. As I said, I offered my help, I got pissed on instead, now good luck finding a way to control my group all the way from Toronto. I'm not stupid enough to deal with people who don't f*ckin respect me and where I come from.

People don't want escalation with the UM02 yet they insult the guy who comes forward and offers ways to avoid a total nightmare. You've had your chance, you blew it.

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

Bull****. If you don't fight it you are supporting it.

As far as I am concerned, his statements regarding their bar stink of: "Aww, you known darn well that blacks aren't welcome. They should know better." It's imported tribalism and I won't tolerate that or let it slide, or be cowed by his pitiful 'pick on the foreigners' defence.

But the problem here is there is a lot of third hand information. In that third hand information are reasons, misinterpretations and justifications for things. People are still frustrated and reacting to things.

Lets move on the basis that he, like pretty much everyone do not want this.

It is a lot easier for the TFC groups to fight this than it is for UM02. TFC games are all sold out and a group of idiots would have a hard time organizing in any of the supporters groups. Individuals that make stupid choices are, not always, quite quickly held accountable.

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

It's not just him you know. As I said, I offered my help, I got pissed on instead, now good luck finding a way to control my group all the way from Toronto. I'm not stupid enough to deal with people who don't f*ckin respect me and where I come from.

Be smart enough to deal witht he people that do. That is our starting point.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

Dude, it's already been determined that you're an asswipe, no need to prove the theory.

I'm not saying I'm gonna throw stones (as a matter of fact, I've already mentioned to the Impact TWICE that they should remove those rocks, because it's a security issue, but nobody seems to care). If you can concentrate hard enough, maybe you can read a little bit between the lines. Hint : we're talking about "escalation".

And yes I will be at BMO. Everytime we play, I will be there.

Oh that's right. You're the referee here. A concerned by-stander. An upright citizen. Good. Glad we got that sorted. I'm glad your not contributing the "escalation." Neither am I. I'm a Canada supporter, that's all. I want all three clubs to do well and, frankly, I don't care who wins the cup. I will say this though, as an objective observer, you'd better take a more proactive approach to avoiding "escalation." As an asswipe I would know that I've taken bigger craps than your firm, and it seems that in the first altercation between the Ultras and the Toronto supporters, you took the worst of it on your own ground.

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

I'm not sure what you mean by "this isn't 2002 any more" though. It comes across as a thinly-veiled threat, which I don't really understand.

No threat at all. I meant that maybe Daniel doesn't have as much weight as he used to have back then. I'm not sure how much he can help avoid escalation between T.O. and Montreal.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Talk about damning with faint praise

Just the opposite, Rudi. It's not 2002 anymore. That was clearly praise with faint damning!

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:

People don't want escalation with the UM02 yet they insult the guy who comes forward and offers ways to avoid a total nightmare. You've had your chance, you blew it.

None of us do. Nothing is blown. We can avoid the nightmare.

Lets take our time. We need to slowly unwind people from the posturing macho bs. I gaurentee you I will do my best here.

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

it seems that in the first altercation between the Ultras and the Toronto supporters, you took the worst of it on your own ground.

The only contact between UM02 and the T.O. supporters was at Bar 99. I wasn't there, I was at the stadium at the time and even though nobody gave me a recap of what happened, I'm pretty sure no fight broke out. I'm sure those who were there can confirm that.

I suppose it could EASILY have gotten worse at 99. If we were the thugs people want us to be, there would've been a brawl.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

No threat at all. I meant that maybe Daniel doesn't have as much weight as he used to have back then. I'm not sure how much he can help avoid escalation between T.O. and Montreal.

I understand what you're saying now.

It's too bad that Daniel doesn't pull as much weight as he once did. He seems like a very level-headed, fair leader type.

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Just the opposite, Rudi. It's not 2002 anymore. That was clearly praise with faint damning!

Ah... thanks for clearing that up for me [8D]

If you're in Toronto on July 1 for the Caps game, your first beer is on me.

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

No threat at all. I meant that maybe Daniel doesn't have as much weight as he used to have back then. I'm not sure how much he can help avoid escalation between T.O. and Montreal.

Ok, I didn't understand that either.

I disagree for several reasons.

1)You guys are smart and neither of us want this crap. And yes we have stuff to do here too. Daniel strikes me as being capable of providing some excellent leadership.

2)The problem is relatively small, though I am not sure how do deal with it or improve the situation for UM02 with Saputo.

3)There are problems we share. Very bad security decisions and lack of a police presence.

We have LOTS of time to work on these things.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

The only contact between UM02 and the T.O. supporters was at Bar 99. I wasn't there, I was at the stadium at the time and even though nobody gave me a recap of what happened, I'm pretty sure no fight broke out. I'm sure those who were there can confirm that.

I suppose it could EASILY have gotten worse at 99. If we were the thugs people want us to be, there would've been a brawl.

I pretty sure nobody thought you guys were thugs until you started telling people not to go to Bar 99 and about how stones "as big as fists" would rain down on their head. Whatever. Must be a misunderstanding. Language barrier perhaps. My last post on the subject. TTFN.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

I know exactly what he is referring to. in 2002 a group of about 20 - 25 drove to Montreal for the Lynx versus Impact game. the support section for the Impact consisted of two persons . In fact they sat adjacent to the Lynx supporters. Everything was in good spirits.

Hence I, like you, am utterly confused as to what he means by "this is not 2002 anymore." I was there and is there was any animosity, I must have missed it.

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

Daniel strikes me as being capable of providing some excellent leadership.

Maybe. That is your view from Toronto. I'm giving you the view I have standing next to him in section 114 game after game. Things change, the Ultras have grown and keep on growing, and the name "ultras" has attracted a lot of people with a view that is slightly different than the one the group had back in 2002. More often than not, Daniel's opinion differs from the majority's. He still is a very important member and a leader of the group, but I'm not sure he can do much when it comes to avoiding fan violence.

However, even though I'm not willing to deal with you guys on this matter anymore, rest assured that measures already have been taken to cool down the over-excited fella who slipped through our fingers on Tuesday night and that at 9:30 in the morning the next day, I already was on the phone with the club to talk about the blatant security issues we all saw. And goddamit, I'll fookin get rid of those stones even if I have to remove them myself. They haven't heard the last of it on the subject.

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

I pretty sure nobody thought you guys were thugs until you started telling people not to go to Bar 99 and about how stones "as big as fists" would rain down on their head. Whatever. Must be a misunderstanding. Language barrier perhaps. My last post on the subject. TTFN.

It is a misunderstanding. You are mixing different posts.

Mpenza was frustrated, and I think clearly sees where this can go and does not want this happen.

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I've already explained what I meant. Scroll back a little, it has nothing to do with Toronto or fan violence.

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by speedmonk42

It is a misunderstanding. You are mixing different posts.

Mpenza was frustrated, and I think clearly sees where this can go and does not want this happen.

Speedmonk, I'm starting to like you.

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

I don't think anyone can or even should tell people what to do. What needs to be done is to make it clear that people make choices and they are responible for them. The leadership side is showing people there are different choices.

Violence is a crime. It is the domain of the police, not us.

quote:

However, even though I'm not willing to deal with you guys on this matter anymore, rest assured that measures already have been taken to cool down the over-excited fella who slipped through our fingers on Tuesday night and that at 9:30 in the morning the next day, I already was on the phone with the club to talk about the blatant security issues we all saw. And goddamit, I'll fookin get rid of those stones even if I have to remove them myself. They haven't heard the last of it on the subject.

This sounds fantastic. Excellent work. It's what we need.

Like it or not, your workin with us... lol! Our mind control device is clearly still working properly.

[SilverSamurai]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

Maybe. That is your view from Toronto. I'm giving you the view I have standing next to him in section 114 game after game. Things change, the Ultras have grown and keep on growing, and the name "ultras" has attracted a lot of people with a view that is slightly different than the one the group had back in 2002. More often than not, Daniel's opinion differs from the majority's. He still is a very important member and a leader of the group, but I'm not sure he can do much when it comes to avoiding fan violence.

However, even though I'm not willing to deal with you guys on this matter anymore, rest assured that measures already have been taken to cool down the over-excited fella who slipped through our fingers on Tuesday night and that at 9:30 in the morning the next day, I already was on the phone with the club to talk about the blatant security issues we all saw. And goddamit, I'll fookin get rid of those stones even if I have to remove them myself. They haven't heard the last of it on the subject.

All you can do is try.

I don't think anyone expects you to be able to control EVERY single little thing or action. It would be unrealistic to do so.

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

Speedmonk, I'm starting to like you.

Is Belgium still the place to go for sex changes?

I'm flexible.

[Guest speedmonk42]

Lets take a break.

Like I said, we have lots of time.