May 27 - Voyageurs Cup: Montreal vs Toronto [R]

[youllneverwalkalone]

I'm here at work looking at my Montreal Ultras scarf that I traded for a Voyageurs scarf, thinking that this thread is really f-ucking sad. There are so many people involved that I know aren't Voyageurs or Canada supporters and I have no problem with them stomping each other. I know Rudi is a passionate Canada supporter and, personally, I think somebody more objective needs to step in and make two points:

Unfortunately, I can only make one on my own: Mpenza supports Belgium and doesn't give a f-uck about this country. He doesn't want other supporters in his bar and even though this is a free country because, amongst other things, we don't surrender immediately at the first sign of trouble, I think all Voyageurs should respect his wishes. We are not welcome at Bar 99. In turn, I would suggest that he stop posting here as he is clearly not a Voyageur.

I for one would appreciate it if one of the Ultras who does care about their country would make an alternative suggestion and show some f-ucking hospitality to the Vs who are coming to St VAG match.

[Keano]

LOL

This thread could have been copy/pasted out of a Leafs/Habs thread on hockeybuzz.com, with changed team names....

Not sure how I feel about that....

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

If you really think that three TFC supporters sitting peacefully in "your" bar is the cause of the bull**** that went down after the match, you're sadly mistaken.

You see? THIS is exactly why I hate talking to you.

You invent things.

I never said or even thought that.

Again: the UM02 had nothing to do with what went on after the game. I don't know how many times I have to say it.

Just ask Grizzly, he was there and saw everything. We got stuck into a verbal fight with TFC fans under the 114 and then went out of the stadium and hung out in front of the main gate. We didn't even realize **** was hitting the fan until we saw some guy (not one of us) get out of the pile in pretty bad shape. But it was all over by then.

[SilverSamurai]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

I'm here at work looking at my Montreal Ultras scarf that I traded for a Voyageurs scarf, thinking that this thread is really f-ucking sad. There are so many people involved that I know aren't Voyageurs or Canada supporters and I have no problem with them stomping each other. I know Rudi is a passionate Canada supporter and, personally, I think somebody more objective needs to step in and make two points:

Unfortunately, I can only make one on my own: Mpenza supports Belgium and doesn't give a f-uck about this country. He doesn't want other supporters in his bar and even though this is a free country because, amongst other things, we don't surrender immediately at the first sign of trouble, I think all Voyageurs should respect his wishes. We are not welcome at Bar 99. In turn, I would suggest that he stop posting here as he is clearly not a Voyageur.

I for one would appreciate it if one of the Ultras who does care about their country would make an alternative suggestion and show some f-ucking hospitality to the Vs who are coming to St VAG match.

Fair enough and I have to agree.

Move on...

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

[He doesn't want other supporters in his bar and even though this is a free country because, amongst other things, we don't surrender immediately at the first sign of trouble, I think all Voyageurs should respect his wishes.

That's a greatin low and retarded thing to say to someone whose great grand-father was gassed by the Germans in the trenches in Flanders in WWI and whose grandfather had to spend WWII in a German working camp.

That said, you got everything wrong. All Voyageurs ARE welcome at the 99 on June 20. Nobody is going to give you trouble for supporting Canada. It's an international WC qualifier, there's no club sh*t going on that day. I was planning to drop by at the 99 to say hi at the request of Winnipeg Fury, who sounds like a great guy, and maybe even lend my voice in 114 for the occaison, but now I'll just pass, because you are a f*cking asshole and I don'T want to be anywhere near you on that day.

I was also thinking about inviting the seven Vancouverites here on June 17 at the 99 for a pre-game or after-game brew, but heck, if you're in the lot, you can all go to hell.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

You see? THIS is exactly why I hate talking to you.

You invent things.

I never said or even thought that.

Again: the UM02 had nothing to do with what went on after the game. I don't know how many times I have to say it.

Just ask Grizzly, he was there and saw everything. We got stuck into a verbal fight with TFC fans under the 114 and then went out of the stadium and hung out in front of the main gate. We didn't even realize **** was hitting the fan until we saw some guy (not one of us) get out of the pile in pretty bad shape. But it was all over by then.

I didn't "invent" anything, as earlier in the thread you yourself linked the arrival of three U-Sector guys at "your" bar to the stupidity that took place afterwards.

If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

I've said here and at the U-Sector board that it's not the UM02 as a whole to blame for this, but that there definitely were a few of your guys involved (including the douchebag with the super original "We Hate Toronto" sign... after the "Hosers" banner we saw at DC three days previous, I couldn't decide which was more lame). You confirmed that.

I actually respect UM02, have stated so a number of times in the past, and I have no beef with the group as a whole. So there, I've said it.

At the same time, you guys will need to control some of your less intelligent members. Why they thought physically blocking the only footpath towards the Metro and parking lot was a good idea will forever escape me.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

I was also thinking about inviting the seven Vancouverites here on June 17 at the 99 for a pre-game or after-game brew, but heck, if you're in the lot, you can all go to hell.

WTF?

So it's cool for seven Vancouver supporters to go to "your" bar, but three TFC fans in there are a sign of the apocalypse?

Lame.

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

WTF?

So it's cool for seven Vancouver supporters to go to "your" bar, but three TFC fans in there are a sign of the apocalypse?

Lame.

Given the long-time rivalry we've had in sports and other fields with Vancouver and the numerous supporter-related incidents we've had with them in the past, it felt like the right thing to do. Are you taking clowning lessons? Maybe you should. You have talent.

[Guest Ed]

^ I suggest you go back to the Balkans and enjoy the rest of your life.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

Given the long-time rivalry we've had in sports and other fields with Vancouver and the numerous supporter-related incidents we've had with them in the past, it felt like the right thing to do. Are you taking clowning lessons? Maybe you should. You have talent.

Again with the personal insults. The mark of someone who has lost the debate.

I'm done with arguing with you, Mpenza. There was nothing personal in my words, and I can understand you sticking up for your group. At the same time, I can see this going on forever and it really is a waste of time.

So I'll just end it with this: I was at the scene of the confrontation, you were not. Everything I saw was first-hand, everything you heard was second-hand at best.

P.S. You Vancouver guys are more than welcome to hang out at "our" bar, should any of you make the trip out here on July 1. Expect some friendly ribbing and a lot of booze.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

That said, you got everything wrong. All Voyageurs ARE welcome at the 99 on June 20. Nobody is going to give you trouble for supporting Canada. It's an international WC qualifier, there's no club sh*t going on that day. I was planning to drop by at the 99 to say hi at the request of Winnipeg Fury, who sounds like a great guy, and maybe even lend my voice in 114 for the occaison, but now I'll just pass, because you are a f*cking asshole and I don'T want to be anywhere near you on that day.

I was also thinking about inviting the seven Vancouverites here on June 17 at the 99 for a pre-game or after-game brew, but heck, if you're in the lot, you can all go to hell.

You're the one who has it wrong. If the Red Patch Boys or some other new group came to your bar to start trouble I would be completely on your side. But it was the U-Sector who are, at least 90%, Voyageurs. These guys having been supporting Canada for a long time and, if check the f-ucking logo on the site you keep posting on, you'll notice this is a Canada supporters site. By your territorial logic, you have to admit that a Belgium supporter should not be posting here. I don't care if you do or don't, but you should be consistent in your views. To me, telling the U-Sector not to drink at your pub is a product of you being a jingoist Belgian who clearly doesn't respect our Vs culture or Canadian culture enough to show a bit of hospitality.

[Mpenza]

Hey. I was only trying to work with the TFC clowns who wanted to avoid escalation. I told them what to do to avoid it, it turned into an ugly sh*t-slinging fest, I got attacked on my nationality thanks to that liverpool-supporting low-life scum from the West Coast... this is where we're at. And then they wonder why people want to bash their heads in when they come here. Don't worry, you won't find me trying to calm things down next time they come around.

To avoid escalation, you need two sides who want it to work. Pretending is not good enough. I made the steps, nobody followed, don't come running to me if it gets ugly next year, I more than probably won't give a flying f*ck.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

(edit) All Voyageurs ARE welcome at the 99 on June 20. Nobody is going to give you trouble for supporting Canada. It's an international WC qualifier, there's no club sh*t going on that day.

I'll pass thanks very much. Speedmonk is a top notch, super nice, quality guy and he gets confronted by a jack-assed overly-testosteroned dickweed in "your" pub while he is with his Montreal pals.

We can do much better somewhere else.

db

[Mpenza]

For the record, I'm not the one deciding who goes or not to 99, you're free to do what you want. But IN CONTEXT, with people wanting to avoid escalation (or so they said), I mentioned three things to do, one of them being avoiding the 99, because, wheher you like it or not and whether I agree with it or not, there is territorial **** going on, and nobody is going to change that overnight. I didn't make up the rules, I didn't decide you should not be there, I'm telling you what's what. UM02 do not like to see other groups take over their pub, that is how it is. You want to avoid escalation, avoid 99. That's all I was saying.

Now, it's not the first time I express my views and get pissed on without a valid reason on this board. What comes across is that I'm not welcome here, because I don't consider myself canadian enough to your liking. Sorry for being born in another country. If that's what the so-called Voyageurs values are about, you're right, I shouldn't be here.

[Guest Ed]

^ It's not about being BORN in another country jackass, it's about bringing the f*ed up values of that country here, where we don't want them. If you want tribalism at soccer games, move back to Bosnia / Belgium / Belarus or whatever hole you emigrated from.

[Mpenza]

How the heck this turned into a xenophobic joyride I will never know. Shows the true nature of some of the people here I guess.

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

^ It's not about being BORN in another country jackass, it's about bringing the f*ed up values of that country here, where we don't want them. If you want tribalism at soccer games, move back to Bosnia / Belgium / Belarus or whatever hole you emigrated from.

I think that is very unfair.

Mpenza, Daniel ect.. none of these guys want this. Neither do the Toronto guys. And I will ad, NONE of them are responsible for it.

Ed, I am not posting so much about this becuase it was a super big deal. I am doing so to try and stop it from becoming one.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

For the record, I'm not the one deciding who goes or not to 99, you're free to do what you want. But IN CONTEXT, with people wanting to avoid escalation (or so they said), I mentioned three things to do, one of them being avoiding the 99, because, wheher you like it or not and whether I agree with it or not, there is territorial **** going on, and nobody is going to change that overnight. I didn't make up the rules, I didn't decide you should not be there, I'm telling you what's what. UM02 do not like to see other groups take over their pub, that is how it is. You want to avoid escalation, avoid 99. That's all I was saying.

Now, it's not the first time I express my views and get pissed on without a valid reason on this board. What comes across is that I'm not welcome here, because I don't consider myself canadian enough to your liking. Sorry for being born in another country. If that's what the so-called Voyageurs values are about, you're right, I shouldn't be here.

I understand where you're coming from in terms of wanting to avoid escalation. But it's the wrong place. We all get along here for the most part when it comes to getting out to matches Canada or otherwise. I know that Rudi, like myself and most of us, can be a little twat on the board, but I can't see him or the Keays or Gianluca starting a fight. You should be posting this stuff on the RPB site or somewhere else. And if you really want to be as diplomatic as you say, why not have somebody who knows both groups, like Daniel, give Rudi a call and ask him to explicitly tell U-Sector not to go to your bar if you really feel it necessary to keep the peace. Did you try that on the U-Sector site?

[Guest speedmonk42]

Mpenza, I want to apologize if you think I am going after you or UM02. I am not at all.

Grizzly and I went to the bar to see you guys, that's why I was there. I brought people who were interested in joining UM02 and going to games with you guys.

So how about this. Lets not any of these guys, Toronto or Montreal have ANY control over us. None, lets not give it to them.

If you say no, it's done. I won't bring it up again.

What if with respect to the bar we do the opposite of what you are saying. You, me and the others we know, there are a lot of them, make a point of having a beer before the game.

I don't care if I get labled a naive, pauncy pacifist sissy. I refuse to buy the narrative that we have no other choice.

[Guest Ed]

What unfair about it? What is xenophobic about it? Xenophobia is defined as fear or mistrust of what is foreign or 'unknown'. Hardly the same as telling someone who might not WANT (but is at least tolerant of) 'football factory' atmosphere, at soccer games in Canada that such behaviour might be OK for the old country but is not and will not be accepted here.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

For the record, I'm not the one deciding who goes or not to 99, you're free to do what you want. But IN CONTEXT, with people wanting to avoid escalation (or so they said), I mentioned three things to do, one of them being avoiding the 99, because, wheher you like it or not and whether I agree with it or not, there is territorial **** going on, and nobody is going to change that overnight. I didn't make up the rules, I didn't decide you should not be there, I'm telling you what's what. UM02 do not like to see other groups take over their pub, that is how it is. You want to avoid escalation, avoid 99. That's all I was saying.

Now, it's not the first time I express my views and get pissed on without a valid reason on this board. What comes across is that I'm not welcome here, because I don't consider myself canadian enough to your liking. Sorry for being born in another country. If that's what the so-called Voyageurs values are about, you're right, I shouldn't be here.

My thoughts and words are based upon this recent bad business only.

db

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

What unfair about it? What is xenophobic about it? Xenophobia is defined as fear or mistrust of what is foreign or 'unknown'. Hardly the same as telling someone who might not WANT (but is at least tolerant of) 'football factory' atmosphere, at soccer games in Canada that such behaviour might be OK for the old country but is not and will not be accepted here.

It is unfair because he is not supporting anything like that, and niehter is any of UM02.

[Mpenza]

As I said, someone asked explicitly "how do we avoid escalation?". I offered solutions, I was giving you the lowdown on what the situation was over here in Montreal, it turned ugly, the Belgium-bashing was the last drop for me. You deal with it if you like, but don't expect my help and don't come crying to me when you get hit in the head by one of the thousands of stones as big as a fist that lay under the stands at Saputo stadium. Talk to Daniel if you want to, but you must realize that it isn't 2002 anymore.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

As I said, someone asked explicitly "how do we avoid escalation?". I offered solutions, I was giving you the lowdown on what the situation was over here in Montreal, it turned ugly, the Belgium-bashing was the last drop for me. You deal with it if you like, but don't expect my help and don't come crying to me when you get hit in the head by one of the thousands of stones as big as a fist that lay under the stands at Saputo stadium. Talk to Daniel if you want to, but you must realize that it isn't 2002 anymore.

haha. Belgian hoolie in Montreal. i know i'm scared. what's that expression about throwing stones in glass houses? oh wait, that was so 2002. how about people shouldn't throw stones when your firm is outnumbered 3 to 1 in your own stadium? will you be travelling to BMO?

[Guest speedmonk42]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

As I said, someone asked explicitly "how do we avoid escalation?". I offered solutions, I was giving you the lowdown on what the situation was over here in Montreal, it turned ugly, the Belgium-bashing was the last drop for me. You deal with it if you like, but don't expect my help and don't come crying to me when you get hit in the head by one of the thousands of stones as big as a fist that lay under the stands at Saputo stadium. Talk to Daniel if you want to, but you must realize that it isn't 2002 anymore.

Please don't give up. I don't know what crawled up Ed's ass.

Yes, staying away from Bar 99 is one solution. I would prefer the opposite because it is bad for UM02 and everyone to cave in to these guys on both sides. It can be done differently, it is a choice we can make.