sholtz Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I wouldn't have expected this and I have been in Cluj for the last 2 weeks. I'll have to come back to see Lars play I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthAfricaOrBust Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I'm a little dissapointed, although he looked severely overmatched vs. the big boys.. Begovic will hopefully take hold of the number one spot by my namesake anywho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadiankick97 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 wtf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I think its seriously difficult to judge if this is a good or bad move because I seriously doubt many V's have had any exposure to Romanian league soccer. All I know about Romanian soccer is that the country consistently produces very good soccer players and I assume many of them come up through the domestic league (i.e. Hagi, Mutu, Popescu, Chivu, etc...) This move is no worse than a parallel move. As long as he's not moving down, it's not negative and I am sure he's earning a nice, fat pay increase. We might want to see more of him but Lars is likely less concerned with what we fans want and more concerned with ensuring a comfortable retirement for he and his family. If there is a misgiving I might have regarding his move to Romania it would be based on stories coming from Romania a few years ago (probably late '90s or early this decade) documenting the massive corruption and match fixing problems plaguing the domestic league. I recall Hagi being appointed to president of the league or something like that to clean it up. I have no idea if the problem is still an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 Romania has a stronger league than Norway and is head and shoulders above the Bundesliga 2. Their top clubs are respectable in Euro competition and the league is not as imbalanced as Scotland. In terms of relative strength, it is behind Holland and about the same as Russia, Ukraine, Belgium, Turkey, Greece etc. Check out their co-efficient strength for next season: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficients Another thing to think about, their league plays 34 games as opposed to 26 in Norway. Also, even though it does get a little chilly in Romania in the winter he likely won't freeze his arse off nearly as much as he did in Norway. I am always repeating myself on this point but the UEFA coefficients DO NOT compare the strengths of various leagues. What it compares is the top clubs of various leagues. Many mediocre leagues with a couple of top clubs are ranked much higher than they deserve in this system. The mid and lower table teams of various leagues are not compared even though this probably gives a better indication of league strength. Additionally the number of teams involved in figuring out the coefficients changes based on the previous placement of the league and the points earned are divided by this number of teams. Thus, leagues like Romania with only a small number of teams in the competition who do well for a couple of years can shoot up the ranking far beyond where they deserve to be. The high ranking of Romania is due almost entirely to the European results of the three Bucharest teams and mostly on the strength of two very successful years 05/06 and 06/07. This year the increased ranking resulted in them having 5 teams in the competition for the first time and their ranking has dropped and in fact this year they finished behind Norway in 25th place in Europe. Unlike previous years in which their point total was divided by three this year it was divided by five. We have seen many lesser leagues get ranked far higher than deserved based on the good performances of two or three teams over a couple of years, Israel being a recent example. Over the last five years Romania has been ranked by this system as the 17th, 14th, 1st, 4th and 25th best league in Europe which is pretty inconsistent. The ranking system unlike the FIFA rankings is well designed for what its purpose is, to determine which teams should go into European competition, but it is not designed to compare relative league strength. I do think the Romanian league is slightly better than the Norwegian one. The top teams are a bit stronger and there are a few more of them. I doubt there is much difference in quality between the mid and lower table teams of Norway and Romania. I personally rank leagues based on their overall strength throughout the table and while Romania might be ranked with leagues like Belgium, Greece, Ukraine and the Czech Republic I don't think the strength throughout the table is comparable to leagues like Russia, Portugal, Holland and Turkey, ie. the leagues I would really consider a step up from Norway. I always prefer players to transfer to leagues where they will get better competition week in and week out and I don't think this is really the case in this move. On the other hand he was going to have serious competition for the starting spot at Rosenborg and this would probably be an unfair competition in which he was disadvantaged as their new keeper has a long-term contract with the team and Lars does not. Clej's owner has money and is ambitious so there are some upsides to the transfer given what a good Champion's League performance could do for Lars' career. It is certainly better for Lars and the MNT for him to be starting for Cluj than on the bench for Rosenborg. On the other hand I would definitely have preferred that Lars transfer to a club in a stronger league than Romania even if that club was less ambitious than Cluj. Facing strong competition every week is superior to 6 Champions League games and the occasional derbies against the stronger teams. I think what this move shows particularly given the length of the contract is that Lars was probably unhappy with the money Rosenborg was offering him to re-sign and not so much about playing in a higher more prominent league. Cluj has a lot of money and were probably easily able to satisfy the demands of both Lars and Rosenborg. On the other hand given that he is playing on what is probably a better team in a slightly better league it is certainly a better move than McKenna made who dropped down a division for a big pay raise. Still I have to agree with others who think this is more of a lateral move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesW Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 http://www.canadian-soccer.com/en/viewarticle.asp?id=260 Thanks guys for finding this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 quote:Originally posted by jonny63 Lars signed a 4 year contract with the Romanian club today. http://www.fxt.no/tippeligaen/rosenborg/article1520616.ece Thanks Jonny, welcome to the V's board! I think it's a good move for Lars. Calm down Grizzly, look at what you wrote and what i said. I didn't compare Romania to Holland or Portugal, i compared it to most of the countries you compared them to. I ask people to check the co-efficients, not take as gospel. I don't think Romania should be ranked ahead of Holland and should not be so close to Portugal. You're probably right that the Russian league is better, and maybe Turkey too. But are we that uptight that we can't be happy for the guy since he's moving to an arguably Top 10-12 league in Europe and likely getting a raise and will be surrounded by high paid players - like a Romanian Chelsea? And can we avoid spewing **** like "he doesn't give a **** about his career and he's taking the money"? **** like that makes me not want to post on these boards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCF08 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 You cant blame Lars for not giving a **** about the rest of his footballing career. This was his golden chance to get into a proper league but money is important as well in this world. He will never ever have to work again after spending 4 years in the craphole that is Romania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Yep, I expect he gets about four times the salary in Rosenborg after tax. Micke Dorsin has already signed for Cluj, and he gets €22,500 a month and a sign-on-fee of €200,000. The taxes in Transylvania are very "polite". http://www.rosenborg.info/article/5805 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Transylvania is one of the world's most beautiful regions, and Cluj is likely it's most beautiful city. I don't know what kind of contract he received but the cost of living compared to Norway is almost non-existent. 20,000 euro a week would be the lifestyle equivalent of Michael Owen's 100,000 quid a week in Newcastle, easily. Might not be the greatest football move, but an amazing opportunity from a lifestyle point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 quote:Originally posted by SCF08 You cant blame Lars for not giving a **** about the rest of his footballing career. This was his golden chance to get into a proper league but money is important as well in this world. He will never ever have to work again after spending 4 years in the craphole that is Romania. Sheesh, you'd think he lowered his standards to play MLS or something. Better contract, a team with big ambitions. Could be considered a lateral move except when you factor in that he would definitely NOT be in CL or UEFA Cup in Europe next season with Rosenborg. And better for Canada in that the season does not conflict with summer qualifying games. Good luck to Lars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 ^ 20,000 euros a week? He'd be crazy not to. Good on you, Lars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 No, it is €20,000 a month, not week, but the taxes are maybe 20% instead of 50% in Norway. But the latest news is that the agent making the transfer, rejects the news in Norway telling Hirschfeld already has signed for Cluj. The clubs have more or less agreed on a transfer, but Hirschfeld still has not made his decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 Thanks Jonny, welcome to the V's board! I think it's a good move for Lars. Calm down Grizzly, look at what you wrote and what i said. I didn't compare Romania to Holland or Portugal, i compared it to most of the countries you compared them to. I ask people to check the co-efficients, not take as gospel. I don't think Romania should be ranked ahead of Holland and should not be so close to Portugal. You're probably right that the Russian league is better, and maybe Turkey too. But are we that uptight that we can't be happy for the guy since he's moving to an arguably Top 10-12 league in Europe and likely getting a raise and will be surrounded by high paid players - like a Romanian Chelsea? And can we avoid spewing **** like "he doesn't give a **** about his career and he's taking the money"? **** like that makes me not want to post on these boards... Agree with your last paragraph. For the part in bold, I just think a lot of V's were expecting him to move to a bigger league (specially after his CL performance) and that would've been good for us on a MNT perspective. As far as I'm concern, I'm happy for him but as a canadian fan I would've prefer him to play in a better level if he is that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 And can we avoid spewing **** like "he doesn't give a **** about his career and he's taking the money"? **** like that makes me not want to post on these boards... What's wrong with taking the money? I, for one, would not criticize an athlete for choosing money over playing for a bad team in a good league. Professional sports is the ultimate "what have you done for me lately" industry. A nice, fat 4 year contract to play for a good team in a decent league (that we've agreed is no worse than where he's played the past couple of years) is absolutely brilliant and I personally applaud Lars and his agent for pulling it off. Lars needs to take care of Lars, first and foremost, because no one else is going to take care of him financially when his career is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 quote:Originally posted by SCF08 You cant blame Lars for not giving a **** about the rest of his footballing career. This was his golden chance to get into a proper league but money is important as well in this world. He will never ever have to work again after spending 4 years in the craphole that is Romania. Ignoring the arrogance and ignorance of this statement, have you looked at where Lars was living? Trondheim has a population of 161 000 and is nearer to the Arctic Circle than any major cities. In addition to the isolation they get hardly any sun in winter and hardly any dark in summer. The standard of living in Norway is high but the cost of living and taxes are also among the highest in the world. In Cluj he is moving to a larger city that is close to the heart of Europe with cities like Bucharest, Budapest, Cracow, Prague and Vienna being within easy driving distance. Romania has had some economic difficulties in recent years but they are recovering and with the low cost of living he will live like a king. Given a similar salary I would pick living in Cluj over Trondheim. Nor is his career over. A large number of players have transferred from Romania to other leagues particularly the Bundesliga. Another good Champion's League performance will put him on the radar of many clubs especially if he can have a better team playing in front of him than he did this year. Cluj looks like a pretty attractive city: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 As written, the transfer is not settled, but I think it is just a question of time. Hirschfeld talked to Cluj already before Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massive Attack Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I actually think this is a great move for Lars, especially considering he is almost guaranteed of returning to the Champions League next season and he gets to make about C$350,000/year if the reports are true. Plus the Romanian league should get a lot more respect than its getting here. Other than a few big name players, the bulk of the Romanian national team that just finished ahead of Holland in Euro qualifying are playing in their domestic league. The league can't be that bad if its producing players that good. I would consider this league much better than the league in Norway and even ahead of the Greek league, which is in decline, but nobody seems to mind the fact that Tam or Radz play there. The other great point is that Lars will have free summers. I get the feeling his weird injuries will begin to decrease. So, now that he is playing for Cluj, I think he needs a new nickname. I'm nominating 'The Count'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 quote:Originally posted by Massive Attack I actually think this is a great move for Lars, especially considering he is almost guaranteed of returning to the Champions League next season and he gets to make about C$350,000/year if the reports are true. Plus the Romanian league should get a lot more respect than its getting here. Other than a few big name players, the bulk of the Romanian national team that just finished ahead of Holland in Euro qualifying are playing in their domestic league. The league can't be that bad if its producing players that good. I would consider this league much better than the league in Norway and even ahead of the Greek league, which is in decline, but nobody seems to mind the fact that Tam or Radz play there. The other great point is that Lars will have free summers. I get the feeling his weird injuries will begin to decrease. So, now that he is playing for Cluj, I think he needs a new nickname. I'm nominating 'The Count'. The league starts at the end of July, so it pretty much means training camp starting by the end of June. Not so sure about the free summer. The good news is that he will be in-season by the start of WCQ (the same would've happen with RBK) and that's good for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 quote:Originally posted by VPjr What's wrong with taking the money? I, for one, would not criticize an athlete for choosing money over playing for a bad team in a good league. I agree, i say get paid what you can. I was responding to what SCF had just written, which was uncalled for IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottie Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 quote:Originally posted by jpg75 I agree, i say get paid what you can. I was responding to what SCF had just written, which was uncalled for IMO. Agreed. It's not like Barcelona was knocking on his door or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 On what basis are you suggesting that the Greek Super League is on decline? Greek teams have been on fire in European competition this year. Olympiacos has made it to the final 16 of the Champions League. They qualified out a group that included Lazio (tied for 12th in Italy), Werder Bremen (tied for 1st in Germany) and Real Madrid (first in Spain). AEK and PAO have qualified for the round of 32 for the UEFA Cup. Larissa, Aris and Panionios did not qualify for the round of 32 but still made it the group stage. Larissa pulled off a huge upset when they beat Blackburn to make it to the group stage. Greece currently has the seven highest UEFA coefficient and next year will qualify two teams directly into the Champions League (http://www.uefa.com/uefa/news/Kind=16384/newsId=92221.html). The Greek Super League is very competitive this year. Every week there are upsets. It has really been fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Start fan in exile Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 A couple of my countrymen have pointed this out, but the deal is not done: http://fotball.fvn.no/eliteserien/article97445.ece The article points out the president of Cluj was quoted in a Romanian paper saying that IF Lars comes to the club, he would be offered a 4-year deal. According to the article, Lars is still on holiday in Hawaii. As for Romanian vs. Norwegian soccer, well, there is no doubt the money at a club like Cluj is miles better than it is at Rosenborg. Rosenborg actually have a policy of signing contracts with relatively low base salaries, but laden with incentives. Lars would have made some good money from the incentives the past two seasons, but with the arrival of Jarstein that becomes much more uncertain. I don't believe the league is any stronger than the Norwegian league - it's possible the top 2-3 clubs are better than the best in Norway (but could they beat Valencia at Mestalla? ) but I think the Norwegian league is much more even and a keeper for Rosenborg will face more quality opposition day in and day out than a keeper for Cluj. A lateral move for Lars, I would say, but given the competition at Rosenborg and the taxes in Norway, one that probably makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Start fan in exile Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Another article: http://www.fxt.no/tippeligaen/rosenborg/article1520616.ece This one quotes Lars, and he states emphatically that he has not signed a contract with Cluj, and that the only reason he did not negotiate an extension with Rosenborg was that he was waiting for clarification on the manager issue (which came just recently) and was focussed on the CL matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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