Guest Ed Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 The driving reason for FIFA awarding the finals to Canada was the recent success of the U19 tourney; nothing else really comes close. I don't think FIFA could give a flyer over whether a new stadium was built in Toronto. I would like to see where that has been formally stated as a condition for awarding the tournament. The latest announcements by the CSA are a slap in the face to the city of Edmonton. The underachievers in Ottawa y have shown an astounding lack of respect to the one city that has provided the CSA a loyal base for the last 20 years. Furthermore, I find it extremely arrogant behaviour when you consider that the stadium is not yet paid for. I hope that doesn't bite them in the ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 The cowboys in Alberta just don't get it do they! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ed Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Richard The cowboys in Alberta just don't get it do they! Let me get the plug of tobacco out before I sputter and stain my chaps. I can see that you Dick are a staunch supporter of all things political in this game. I can only imagine you did an unforgettable job managing your high school team and with that blood rush that comes with vicariously enjoying the game with the boys on the field, you went head on into the rewarding world of local and district soccer governance, and supporting those grand committees of British ex-pats running the game in BC and nationally. As an ex-hockey player who only learned to love the game by playing it late in my youth, I am of course unaware of many of the nuances of the politics in our game and certainly miss many aspects administration of the game. Having said that, what exactly do I not get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Ed Let me get the plug of tobacco out before I sputter and stain my chaps. I can see that you Dick are a staunch supporter of all things political in this game. I can only imagine you did an unforgettable job managing your high school team and with that blood rush that comes with vicariously enjoying the game with the boys on the field, you went head on into the rewarding world of local and district soccer governance, and supporting those grand committees of British ex-pats running the game in BC and nationally. As an ex-hockey player who only learned to love the game by playing it late in my youth, I am of course unaware of many of the nuances of the politics in our game and certainly miss many aspects administration of the game. Having said that, what exactly do I not get? Well said pardner. 'Spose I'll see ya at the round-up this weekend? By the way, anyone seen my spurs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Free kick If my memory is correct, Jack Warner may have said it himself about a year ago. “There will be no U 20 WC in Canada without a stadium in Toronto” is what I recall him saying. With that in mind, is there any doubt that they would envisioned that the key matches would be held in Toronto. Warner did not set those stringent conditions for any of the other sites in Canada. You memory is not correct. Jack Warner said that FIFA advanced the date for announcing the award of the games so that the Government funds earmarked for the Toronto stadium could be secured as they were all dependent upon Canada winning the U-20. There were no conditions that U-20 was contingent upon the stadium actually being built and no statement similar to your paraphrase, or anything even close to that, has been made. I can understand why you might think this was the case as it has been repeated on this site often enough as gospel, but ultimately, entirely untrue. And you can look it up if you care too. Now, FIFA has</u> shown a lot of support for a stadium in Toronto, from awarding funds (the profits from that tournament that they gave the tickets away in Edmonton) to allow for the design to moving their U-20 announcement date to allow the U of T to get on with their construction window. And thank god they did, or the stadium would be nothing more than a dream. But it is nothing more than "support" and it certainly was not "conditional" support. Recall that the U-19 money was designated long before any decision was made on the U-20. If at the end of the day, the CSA made this decision due to revenue, as they suggest is the case, then they made a weak decision. They are compounding that poor decision by having Canada play in Toronto and in Edmonton which compromises performance potentially. Having made the decision of having the final in Toronto, they should now take the hit and undo the stupidity of having Canada travel across the country. Either make the opening game involve the defending champs, and play Canada out west until the final or, keep Canada in the east. There is simply no point in compromising performance because of backroom politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Richard The cowboys in Alberta just don't get it do they! I'm not a cowboy, but I guess according to you I just don't get it. Toronto deserves either the opening or the Final. No one is arguing with that. But it doesn't deserve both! They want the final? Fine. But give Edmonton the Opening. Then Canada can split their group games in Vancouver and Victoria and the boys won't have to travel a whole lot. The anti-CSA Edmontonians aren't bitching we have 2 Canada games. We're bitching we don't have one of the two high profile games. And yes we do deserve one. We have the best stadium and the best fan turnout for major events. As for Terry Jones, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a media-aided strategy to get the CSA to change its decision and give Edmonton the opening. I'm not saying it's what is happening, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobe_z Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Well said Sergio... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 I'm still searching for the CSA announcement that Edmonton will host the other two Canada games. If that's the case I think the CSA is wrong in doing such a thing when we have only 2-3 days between group games. But as I said I haven't seen anything on the CSA website about Edmonton getting the last 2 Canada games. If the CSA wants to make the Toronto stadium the home of our MNT, I don't see why Edmonton would receive 2 Canada games. All 3 games should be played in Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 quote:Originally posted by River City I'm not a cowboy... What!!!??? Next thing you're going to tell us is that you're not a conservative religious zealot bent on western separation. Thanks for wrecking the sterotype for all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Holy crap! In that same thread that Grizzly trudged up to dispell Doyle's monthly rant, there's a post from G-Man which actually has positive things to say about MLS, going so far as to say that he'll make 3-4 trips to toronto see the team play. Don't believe me? Check it out: So will you be sitting in the supporters section with the rest of us, G-Man? I won't be joining you in Welfare Park. Just as I won't support the NHL in Canada as it gets major league tax breaks simply for being a hockey league. Enough Corporate Welfare. And if I wait long enough (2-3 years), the team will be moved to Montreal, due to lack of fans......much closer drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Gordon You memory is not correct. Jack Warner said that FIFA advanced the date for announcing the award of the games so that the Government funds earmarked for the Toronto stadium could be secured as they were all dependent upon Canada winning the U-20. There were no conditions that U-20 was contingent upon the stadium actually being built and no statement similar to your paraphrase, or anything even close to that, has been made. I can understand why you might think this was the case as it has been repeated on this site often enough as gospel, but ultimately, entirely untrue. And you can look it up if you care too. Now, FIFA has</u> shown a lot of support for a stadium in Toronto, from awarding funds (the profits from that tournament that they gave the tickets away in Edmonton) to allow for the design to moving their U-20 announcement date to allow the U of T to get on with their construction window. And thank god they did, or the stadium would be nothing more than a dream. But it is nothing more than "support" and it certainly was not "conditional" support. Recall that the U-19 money was designated long before any decision was made on the U-20. If at the end of the day, the CSA made this decision due to revenue, as they suggest is the case, then they made a weak decision. They are compounding that poor decision by having Canada play in Toronto and in Edmonton which compromises performance potentially. Having made the decision of having the final in Toronto, they should now take the hit and undo the stupidity of having Canada travel across the country. Either make the opening game involve the defending champs, and play Canada out west until the final or, keep Canada in the east. There is simply no point in compromising performance because of backroom politics. Gordon, Don't you remember that press conference that was held in Toronto that was attended by Jack Warner; whereby clips of it were shown on television including soccer Central? I am sure that you must recall the words from Jack Warner stating that he was prepared to have T&T surrender the privilliges to host the U20 event ( and award them to Canada) if Toronto builds a facility? I do not know what more proof that there could be that awarding the U20 hinged on Toronto getting a stadium. Now I do not believe that FIFA would have taken it away from canada had the stadium project fell through after it was awarded but I am sure that they would have been extremely disappointed. Plus, why was Jack Warner in Toronto to attend that press conference rather than any other city in Canada. Its pretty obvious to me. As I said, I am not certain of the exact words he used. It may not have been “There will be no U 20 WC in Canada without a stadium in Toronto” but, it was pretty obvious what was meant. And Warner would not have made the trip just to ensure support in another city in Canada. It pretty obvious he went through the hassle because he wanted a stadium in Toronto. And if Toronto wasn't going to figure in as the centrepiece ( ie,.: host the final) why would he have bothered. Its obvious that a categoric disaster off the field with the U19 girls would have hurt but by the same token the argument that is a real stretch is the one : " the success of the U19 Girls is the reason that Canada landed the WYC". I would like someone to provide a source or evidence of claim. yet some have taken that claim to be gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobe_z Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Freekick - Well if you wanna draw a straight line between the 2002 U-19 Women's Championships and the 2007 WYC you might have to connect a dot for the 2007 Women's World Cup bid that got highjacked by the Chinese. There's numerous articles that have Sepp Blatter praising the CSA and Edmonton in particular for the job well done in hosting the U-19's. Blatter's 'blessings' for the 2007 WWC bid had us in the bag until the Chinese discovered they'd actually have to start planning for an event held the next year. By needing the USA to come in at the last second and save the 2003 WWC, that effectively killed the Canadian bid for 2007 (3 in a row for CONCACAF.. poor Chinese planning means one more try in 2007). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you throw all that politiking in a bowl with a Toronto stadium plan and Canada's good showing at the 2003 WYC (and 4/5 times recent qualifying for the tourney) and you get awarded the 2007 WYC. No one's saying it's the ONLY reason... but can you really doubt that it's a BIG PART of the reason? It's also been discussed before on this very board "In his letter to CSA President Sharpe, FIFA President Blatter praised the Association for the “…outstanding organization of the inaugural FIFA U-19 Women’s Championship in 2002 and the professional approach that you and your team has taken in requesting to host this tournament. We thank you for your kind cooperation and very much look forward to working with you for the 2007 edition of the FIFA World Youth Championship." I think it's pretty clear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Gordon, Don't you remember that press conference that was held in Toronto that was attended by Jack Warner; whereby clips of it were shown on television including soccer Central? I am sure that you must recall the words from Jack Warner stating that he was prepared to have T&T surrender the privilliges to host the U20 event ( and award them to Canada) if Toronto builds a facility? I do not know what more proof that there could be that awarding the U20 hinged on Toronto getting a stadium. (snipped some)... Its obvious that a categoric disaster off the field with the U19 girls would have hurt but by the same token the argument that is a real stretch is the one : " the success of the U19 Girls is the reason that Canada landed the WYC". I would like someone to provide a source or evidence of claim. yet some have taken that claim to be gospel. Freekick, Here is the press release: http://www.soccer.on.ca/OSN.nsf/0/0bdd2c5e0887c7e485256eec00542d14?OpenDocument Note paragraph 4 in which Blatter is specifically associating the U-20 with the success of U-19 (as was also the case with the announcement of the canadian host cities btw, where Warner talked of the success of the U-19), and paragraph 5 which simply states the decision to award to U-20 to Canada is being advanced to allow for the governement funding to be secured, and of course, reference to the unversity building the Toronto stadium. If you can find anything anywhere where Warner, Blatter or anyone else is tying the U-20 to a stadium in Toronto it will come as a surprise to me. I have been repeatedly trying to pop this myth since it first appeared to no avail. If anyone was able to post anything concrete I'd have taken it to heart. As for why this particular press confernece was held in Toronto three things jump to mind: 1) media capital of Canada 2) only City with direct flight to and from T & T 3) among key purposes was to secure funding from government for Toronto stadium. Given 1-3 where else would you hold it? Note also the press release specifically mentions Toronto hosting the opening match involving Canada. Nothing on the Final Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobe_z Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 As I mentioned It's also been discussed before on this very board One thing I noticed in re-reading part of that thread, Gian-Luca says: "3. Jack Warner mentioned on The Score that the only time a country has ever given money back to FIFA after hosting a soccer tourney was Canada in 2001 for the U19 Women's tourney, playing a role in the decision to award to Canada" Now, that does throw some water on the theory that Toronto will somehow be more profitable? But what I really wanna know is... why did we give money back then? We're certainly not the only country ever to turn a profit on a FIFA event, so what's the deal here? Were we just being "polite Canadians"? Lord knows CSA could use the extra funding (and Lord only knows what they'd spend it on....). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Gordon But the bit that you snipped out of Free Kick's post was him basically saying you can read between the lines with what was said, and frankly I believe you can do exactly that with what is stated in the 5th paragraph, especially the bit about moving the timetable of the decision up to secure the funds for the Toronto stadium. Personally I think its naive to think that the success of the U19 tourney in 2001 had no part to play in bringing the U20 tourney to Toronto, or that getting a stadium built for Toronto wasn't a factor in the decision to award the tourney here. If the CSA has mis-handled things with the locals in Edmonton & promised them things that they have now decided not to deliver, then I do sympathize. However, some of the reactions here again make it sound like Edmonton is getting shut out of the tourney completely, or that getting most of Canada's games is some sort of punishment, rather than a reward for the good work Edmonton did in 2001 (and I use that year specifically). I expect most Canadian supporters in Toronto would gladly trade Edmontonians the final for the two Canada games we aren't getting, but sadly it doesn't look likely to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 quote:Originally posted by G-Man I won't be joining you Then you're just as bad as Doyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Assuming the Final is a done deal, I had some free time and..... http://www.gopetition.com/region/38/8001.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Spiers Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 Thanks for alerting me to the "Stop Paris Hilton's Singing Career" petition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
River City Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 There's some really hilarious ones in there....how soon before someone starts Fire Yallop or Fire Pipe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca Thank you. Thats exactly what I am getting at. The comments from Blatter that Strobe z posted ( and Gordon alluded to) sound very much like your standard: " These were the best Olympics ever" line that you used to get at every Olympics closing ceremony. The suggestion that the U19 was key or that there are dots to connect between the WWC being lost and the success of the U19 girls final is naive in my opinion as well. Granted we probably would not have gotten the U20 if the WWC would have been awarded to Canada. But they could just as easily have awarded the U20 to the US or T&T and told us to wait until 2012 for the WWC. Does anyone really think that people who run FIFA and Concacaf award tournaments on solely the basis of merit. Or that they guided by some moral compass or superior wisdom when it comes to these decison. Lets not forget, these are the same wise people ( Blatter and Warner) who: -suggested women players should wear hot pants. -rewarded Mexican ref Archundia for his great performance in EDM with more WCQ assignments in the hex. - Gave Oceanian (australia) and full spot or auto berth to the Wc then took it away. -Used $$$ from the gol project to build taj Mahal type facilities for soccer in his own country while Haitian women players have to have shoes donated to them -Holds a Gold cup in the middle of the final round of WCQ. - Has rules for cap tying players that I have given up trying to understnd Therefore, besides an excuse to check out the Brassrail ( a Toronto Gentlemans nigh club), why else would Jack leave the cosy comforts of his mansion to come and hold a press conferance in Toronto to push for a stadium in Toronto as opposed to say Saint.John, Montreal or Ottawa. Do you think it was to say thank you for U19? to be nice to Canada? because they care about Canada?. No. it was because of the one thing these guys do know about, and that is the "colour of money". And thats why the push for Toronto. And why do they like Toronto? for the same reason that robbers are attracted to banks. Because that's where the money is. So you can connect the dots much more clearly when you look at it in this way because if you will go through that hassle plus give out $$$, you can bet that the intent wasn't for it to be used as a secondary venue. Without Toronto at the start, it would have meant no tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Then you're just as bad as Doyle. At least I'm living in a G-L dream world like you. Go Toronto MLS Avaitors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Man Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Rudi Then you're just as bad as Doyle. At least I'm living in a G-L dream world like you. Go Toronto MLS Avaitors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 quote:Originally posted by G-Man At least I'm living in a G-L dream world like you. Go Toronto MLS Avaitors! I'm not exactly sure what a 'G-L dream world' is, or why you admit to living in one. What I do know is that you're a complete hypocrite, and not worth any more of my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly You will be waiting a long time then. I heard all your excuses the first time and no not every game was at night and they were on a wide variety of days of the week. Doesn't sound like you tried very hard. But even assuming that you had legitimate reasons to miss the games one would think that this would cause you to temper your opinions in favour of those who actually do attend games. If you want credibility you have to attend matches. You claimed in November 2005 that you attended the home opener. However in 2004 you posted (http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5332&whichpage=3) Do you just post whatever helps you in your current argument? Did you think we all forgot the earlier post? Do we all get an apology for you lying on the forum? Wrong again as usual. http://www.canadian-soccer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3191&SearchTerms=Edmonton Wouldn't make a remark like that if I weren't at the game now would I? Just apologize. You got played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Just apologized. Well as long as you can apologize... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.