trueviking Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 toronto is also far more accessible for people from other countries to come for the games....this isnt just a single event involving a team from canada...its a tournament of many countries....to be successful it has to be able to draw people from other countries...that is far more likely in toronto than edmonton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Nice to see the idiot crowd come up with their excuses on why Toronto should host the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Domi Rulezz Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Nice to see the idiot crowd come up with their excuses on why Toronto should host the tournament. Classy. Once again DoyleG cannot post with insulting an entire group of people. It really must hurt to be such a sad individual. I especially like the inference that Toronto should be totally shut out of hosting the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Domi Rulezz Classy. Once again DoyleG cannot post with insulting an entire group of people. It really must hurt to be such a sad individual. I especially like the inference that Toronto should be totally shut out of hosting the tournament. Thank you for proving my point Beast. Did your mommy have to type that for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Domi Rulezz Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Thank you for proving my point Beast. What point? Your posts never have any points, just one-liners containing insulting undertones (and overtones) towards anyone from Ontario or Pro-MLS. quote: Did your mommy have to type that for you? Oooooohhh! You got me there. What's next, Doyle? "I know you are, but what am I"? I left grade 3 a long time ago, Gavin. Perhaps you should try to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Nice to see the idiot crowd come up with their excuses on why Toronto should host the tournament. Classy, very classy..... You could at least try to answer the arguments that have been suggested as for why the CSA choosed Toronto over Edmonton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Comparing this under 20 tournement to a few poorly attended WCQ is unfair and easily taken apart. I started having a problem with the CSA years before, when I saw how terribly they promoted anything to do with the World Cup team. Everything from ticket sales and media relations to concessions to half time shows. When left to there own devices, the CSA is a freaking joke. The difference for the U20 is simply that the city, province and media are behind the event. Theres cash, press and political support to promote it. When these things happen, it ain't gonna flop. You can see dozens of examples to prove it. The Grand Prix of Edmonton, Canadian Finals Rodeo, World Games, The Fringe Festival, The Womens U20 and the recent World Master Games prove it. Whenever Edmonton holds events like these and have the kind of support being offered they succeed, break records and make a ton of cash. The CSA blew it again, man and there ain't anything anybody can say to convince me otherwise. A sixty thousand seat stadium gone to waste. The CSA snubbing Edmonton is a slap in the face to the city and it may hurt Pipe and company down the road, if they ever want to use a 60000 seat stadium again. hardcore fans will always show up but theres a bitter taste in the mouths of the local media and the politicians here after all this crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 quote:Originally posted by loyola Classy, very classy..... You could at least try to answer the arguments that have been suggested as for why the CSA choosed Toronto over Edmonton. The only arguments you ever could come up with hold no water. Anyone with half a brain will tell you that 50,000 at Commonwealth at $20 will be a better goal than paying more than $50 for Toronto. It seems that the only reason the CSA has for Toronto is to plug it's stadium and MLS. As for the dumb multicultural angle. You reall think that people will be stupid enough to support a team just because it happens to be from the old country. Your selling point isn't going to put people in the seats, which is the whole point of the torunament to begin with. It's just so sad to see you guys drinking the Kevin Pipe Kool-Aid. Are you guys going to admit that this will fail or are you going to great lenghts to avoid saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 You know guys, all this negativism and silly regional envy about the CSA, the Toronto stadium and which WYC 2007 games should be played where is really corrosive for the game in Canada. One thing we do all have in common is a love for the game. Why not just bury any differences of opinion and pull together to make it all work for the overall good of the game? Stop and think... 1. We have a brand new soccer specific stadium being built in Canada - the first for a long time if not ever - in the country's largest metropolitan centre, 2. We have the second largest soccer event in the world coming to Canada in 2007, 3. We have the highest level league in North America committed to its first Canadian franchise to be operated by perhaps the wealthiest and most successful sports and entertainment businesses in Canada and with more franchises to follow if this one can be made to work. What's there to fight about, this is the biggest thing to happen to Canadian soccer in decades if not ever! We owe it to the game to MAKE it work not tear it all to pieces through infighting before it even happens. No soccer team can win if everybody on the team is pulling in a different direction, following different game plans for their own selfish reasons and fighting over the ball. Why can't we all just be grownups about this business, get on with it and make sure it is a success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Richard You know guys, all this negativism and silly regional envy about the CSA, the Toronto stadium and which WYC 2007 games should be played where is really corrosive for the game in Canada. One thing we do all have in common is a love for the game. Why not just bury any differences of opinion and pull together to make it all work for the overall good of the game? Of course we would all love to, but since the CSA and it's supporters have laid the foundation for discontent the answer would be no. quote:Originally posted by Richard 1. We have a brand new soccer specific stadium being built in Canada - the first for a long time if not ever - in the country's largest metropolitan centre, Doesn't mean squat. Stadiums are useless as a selling tool. The CSA only pulled it off in TO since they knew that city council loved a vanity project. Any other city, they would treated like a bunch of snake oil salesmen and given the boot. quote:Originally posted by Richard 2. We have the second largest soccer event in the world coming to Canada in 2007, Which doesn't mean anything. The world isn't going to take this tournament as seriously compared to even a WWC. You would struggle to find people who could even name a member of their countries U-20 team. Few of the big nations take the WYC seriously. If they did, they would be pushing hard for constant qualification. quote:Originally posted by Richard 3. We have the highest level league in North America committed to its first Canadian franchise to be operated by perhaps the wealthiest and most successful sports and entertainment businesses in Canada and with more franchises to follow if this one can be made to work. If you've watched the problems of the MLSE saga, they are all about the cash and not about sports. If they were even serious in the sightest bit about making sports work in TO, Peddie would be shown the door a long time ago and replaced with someone who knows sports and how to make it work. And to those who complain otherwise, having a stadium and an expansion team means squat. They don't make it work, they will pull the plug. quote:Originally posted by Richard What's there to fight about, this is the biggest thing to happen to Canadian soccer in decades if not ever! We owe it to the game to MAKE it work not tear it all to pieces through infighting before it even happens. We owe it to that the CSA learning basic common sense. Their type of leadership will just simply turn this into another lemon. quote:Originally posted by Richard No soccer team can win if everybody on the team is pulling in a different direction, following different game plans for their own selfish reasons and fighting over the ball. Why can't we all just be grownups about this business, get on with it and make sure it is a success? Again, ask the CSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Domi Rulezz Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Poor Doyle. That inferiority complex of yours must be a real burden to carry around all the time. But at least you can feel like a big man on an internet message board, calling people 'idiots' without provokation. Good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Sad really. Doyle, you need to take a more positive view on life. All that negativism and hatred will consume you. The more you go on in that extreme vain the more silly and futile you come across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Anyone with half a brain will tell you that 50,000 at Commonwealth at $20 will be a better goal than paying more than $50 for Toronto. That's my concern though. If the people who only have half a brain are advocating this plan, wouldn't it make more sense to ignore them and go with the plan advocated by those who have a full brain to think with? quote: As for the dumb multicultural angle. You reall think that people will be stupid enough to support a team just because it happens to be from the old country. No you're quite right, that never happens in Canada. We have never seen fans for opposing teams here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca That's my concern though. If the people who only have half a brain are advocating this plan, wouldn't it make more sense to ignore them and go with the plan advocated by those who have a full brain to think with? Problem is that the full brain and half a brain would support Edmonton. Doesn't take a genius to tell who picked Toronto. quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca No you're quite right, that never happens in Canada. We have never seen fans for opposing teams here. Can a man from the old country name a player from their U-19 team? Of course not. Such tournaments don't figure into their support for the national team. You would actually look and notice that such games aren't held in the big cities but in smaller communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca That's my concern though. If the people who only have half a brain are advocating this plan, wouldn't it make more sense to ignore them and go with the plan advocated by those who have a full brain to think with? Problem is that the full brain and half a brain would support Edmonton. Doesn't take a genius to tell who picked Toronto. quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca No you're quite right, that never happens in Canada. We have never seen fans for opposing teams here. Can a man from the old country name a player from their U-19 team? Of course not. Such tournaments don't figure into their support for the national team. You would actually look and notice that such games aren't held in the big cities but in smaller communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Domi Rulezz Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Can a man from the old country name a player from their U-19 team? Of course not. Such tournaments don't figure into their support for the national team. You would actually look and notice that such games aren't held in the big cities but in smaller communities. Yet, oddly enough, Toronto got 15,000 for the final between USSR and Nigeria in the 1987 World U-17 championships. I wonder what those two teams would have gotten in Edmonton. http://fifa.com/en/mens/comp/U17PrevTournaments/0,5904,2-U17-1987,00.html The semi-final match between Italy and Ivory Coast had an attendance of 20,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Ault Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 quote: Can a man from the old country name a player from their U-19 team? I suspect most of them can name the full squad if my experience with these "old country" soccer fans means anything. 500,000 attended the WYC games in Holland and 2.5 million from around the world watched an opening round match. In a report presented by FIFA, infront Sports Media, and Sponsorship Intelligence, the 2003 tournament achieved 494 million viewers worldwide (cumulative) across 99 markets. The numbers reflect a 60% increase in global cumulative audience compared to 2001 which achieved 308 million viewers. Someone cares and if we're not careful and the soccer community does not support the tournament here in Canada, DESPITE our feelings about the bureaucrats we are going to miss a chance to give the sport a huge boost in this country. Is the situation perfect? Are all the decisions being made the right ones? Unless your crystal ball works better than mine I do not know but I do know if we, as a soccer community do not support this initiative it will be a long time before the chance comes round again. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 quote:Originally posted by DoyleG Problem is that the full brain and half a brain would support Edmonton. People with a brain & a half eh? That limits the supporters to freaks of nature and Zaphod Beeblebrox. quote: Can a man from the old country name a player from their U-19 team? No, but only because there's no such thing as a country's men's u19 team. Not that the ability to name a player on a youth team has anything to do with whether people will come out and support the old country. I've heard many things in my time, but I've never heard "I was going to cheer on my homeland tonight at the soccer game but I discovered that I couldn't name a single player on the team, so I said "Phuck 'em!"" quote: You would actually look and notice that such games aren't held in the big cities but in smaller communities. I would do no such thing. I also didn't realize that Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Ottawa & Edmonton are Canada's smaller communities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Domi Rulezz The semi-final match between Italy and Ivory Coast had an attendance of 20,000. Italy vs. Nigeria actually. What I've always felt was really impressive about that crowd is that it was a weeknight (a Wednesday I believe), with not all that much promotion and very little media coverage to speak of (at least pre-game) and the match still sold-out, largely due to word of mouth & buzz in the city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Spiers Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Now I don't know for sure who made the final decision on where the final would be played but I suspect it could have been the CSA Executive Committee. If so, the present make-up of that Executive is quite interesting. The President is from Saskatchewan but has also worked and lived in BC. The V-P is from BC The Director-Finance is from Ontario The Director-Competitions is from Newfoundland The Director-Technical is from Alberta The Director-Female Soccer is from BC The Past President is from Alberta With that line-up, it would suggest that regional bias would NOT be one of the reasons for awarding the final to Toronto. Perhaps the CSA did take a serious look at what venue made most sense to the CSA from a financial and promotional point-of-view and made their decision on that basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 when was the last time Toronto had a mnt wcq game? what was the attendance? and who pocketed the gate money> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Gordon I don't beleive that FIFA put any pressure on the CSA to hold the Stadium in Toronto as is being suggested because I think the CSA is too arrogant to try to obscure that pressure with a bogus "bid" process. That would give them exactly the out they needed to put the thing in Toronto. I think they needed a bogus "bid" process to justify a decision to hold it in Toronto. Actually, I think that we would not have earned the right to host this event without the predominant involvement of Toronto. I think FIFA expects the final to be played in the country's most populated urban area. Asides from USA 94, where the final of the World Cup was played in the second largest urban area (Los Angeles), there are no examples of the final being played in anything other that country's largest city. Its pretty much the same with the U20 WC. I had to check on a map where Utrecht was located ( I have never been to Holland )and it looks to be very much in the Amsterdam area. Certainly accessibe to the resident of the most densely populated area in Holland. In each other case the U20 final was held in the largest city. If you account for the fact that within a 500 km radius covers of Toronto you have and area that might account for 60-100 million people. Including arguably the most ethnically diverse area on the planet. With that, you might have some explaning ( to fifa) to do you were to choose Edmonton over Toronto. Here is the location ( obtained from fifa.com) of the final match in each of the previous editions of thsi tournament. The common denominator with Toronto should be obvious to anyone. Then again, this is probably the only country in the world where we would even be having this kind of discussion over a decsion like this. U20 - World Cup final venue 2005-Netherlands-Utrecht 2003-UAE-Abu Dabi 2001-Arg-Buenos Aires 1999-Nigeria-Laos 1997-Malaysia-KUALA LUMPUR 1995-Qatar-Doha 1993-Australia-SYDNey 1991-Portugal-LISBON 1989-Saudi Arabia-RIYADH 1987-Chile- SANTIAGO 1985-USSR-Moscow 1983-Mexico-MEXICO CITY 1981-Australia-SYDNEY 1979-Japan-TOKYO 1977-Tunisia-TUNIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 Why is it that of the 5 cities that didn't get the finals and probably won't get any Canada games that only the Edmontonians who probably will get 2 Canada games are here bitching? Ottawa currently has a stadium also very capable of hosting games at the crowd level we could expect. Landsdowne can easily be expanded to 50 000 if ticket sales require this. The field needs a bit of work but this has to be done anyway for the CFL team. This brings up another point about field condition. If it is not played on regularly Commonwealth can have a very good field which will be absolutely crucial for the final. However, most of the times I have seen games at Commonwealth the field is crap and worse than an artificial field. Where would the Eskimos play until after the tournament? If the field is going to be kept up to standards the Eskimos would have to not play at Commonwealth for 2 months of the season. Toronto doesn't have this problem and Ottawa with its Field Turf would also not have a problem maintaining the field. Doyle is a guy who didn't even support soccer in Edmonton by going to USL games when they had a team. I really doubt his butt would be in the seats of a U-20 World Cup final either although he would certainly fill the board with his excuses of work, ticket price, etc. I fully agree with Richard's post that we should do what we can to make this the best tournament possible. Personally I would go to any game in my city but I would only travel to see Canada. I would not travel to see the final but I would travel to see a Canada game. I would choose a ticket to a Canada match over one for the final. My point being that in my opinion and probably that of most Canadians, Edmonton looks like it is getting two of the three most attractive matches. However, if they keep complaining like they are and threatening not to give full effort they will lose them and probably to Ottawa. So keep bitching maybe I will get to see a few more matches live than I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beaver Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Bill Spiers Now I don't know for sure who made the final decision on where the final would be played but I suspect it could have been the CSA Executive Committee. If so, the present make-up of that Executive is quite interesting. The President is from Saskatchewan but has also worked and lived in BC. The V-P is from BC The Director-Finance is from Ontario The Director-Competitions is from Newfoundland The Director-Technical is from Alberta The Director-Female Soccer is from BC The Past President is from Alberta With that line-up, it would suggest that regional bias would NOT be one of the reasons for awarding the final to Toronto. Perhaps the CSA did take a serious look at what venue made most sense to the CSA from a financial and promotional point-of-view and made their decision on that basis. Holy cow, the West truly IS in! Damn, Stephen Harper works fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffymac1971 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 quote:Originally posted by Richard You know guys, all this negativism and silly regional envy about the CSA, the Toronto stadium and which WYC 2007 games should be played where is really corrosive for the game in Canada. One thing we do all have in common is a love for the game. Why not just bury any differences of opinion and pull together to make it all work for the overall good of the game? Stop and think... 1. We have a brand new soccer specific stadium being built in Canada - the first for a long time if not ever - in the country's largest metropolitan centre, 2. We have the second largest soccer event in the world coming to Canada in 2007, 3. We have the highest level league in North America committed to its first Canadian franchise to be operated by perhaps the wealthiest and most successful sports and entertainment businesses in Canada and with more franchises to follow if this one can be made to work. What's there to fight about, this is the biggest thing to happen to Canadian soccer in decades if not ever! We owe it to the game to MAKE it work not tear it all to pieces through infighting before it even happens. No soccer team can win if everybody on the team is pulling in a different direction, following different game plans for their own selfish reasons and fighting over the ball. Why can't we all just be grownups about this business, get on with it and make sure it is a success? Ditto! Well put Richard. While I am disapointed Edmonton didn't get the final, I believe we all need to pull together as soccer fans in this country. If Toronto can succeed, that Vancouver, Montreal and Edmonton shouldn't be that far behind with a MLS franchise. Sometimes we need to smell the roses and look at the overall picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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