List of potential Canadian Premier League Players

[johnyb]

39 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

30 grand...yipes.  Thats a tough one to swallow.  Would the young USL, L1O and PQ league guys move to Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Halifax etc for a chance to be the 20th guy on a roster for 30 G's?  

Yes. I'll bet $30k minimum to chase your dreams for a couple seasons is acceptable to the players you pointed out. The cream will rise and they will be compensated for it. Seems reasonable for the bottom 5-6 spots for a 6 month season. 

[harrycoyster]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

30k in 2019 is a joke for a minimum salary. By that I mean how incongruent it is with Montagliani saying that Canada needs a league where players can make a living and have a pro career strictly on soccer.

This "Canadian need to underestimate ourselves" is really depressing.

It's just that paying players 17-25 on a roster 50k a year makes zero sense to me. Given that we want those players to be developing Canadians, how does it make sense to pay over double market value? I think we can all agree that the final third of CPL rosters will come largely from the L1O, PDL, PLQ, and NCAA. Players in those leagues generally jump at the chance to play in USL for 20k. Paying 50k instead of 30k to 8 players is 160k a year. That's enough to start a small academy.

Paying bench USL players, undrafted NCAA Canadians, and P1O/PLQ players 50k a year is basically charity and only makes sense if the CPL owners have the financial capabilities to pay a 50k minimum AND start academy programs AND build proper facilities AND have substantial marketing. I know it sounds harsh, but these players just don't justify the costs of providing a good living.

I'd be down for a sink or swim system similar to the ones used in the lower levels of minor league baseball. Basically players sign a three-year contract that pays 30k year one and has a team option at 50k for the two remaining years. If you impress within a year, you get a livable wage and a couple years to progress with the team. If you don't impress, you go to Plan B....whatever that may be. It's a good way to give players a chance that don't really demand a chuck of your payroll, yet is short-term enough that you aren't stringing a kid on at 20k a season for 5 years as happens in the USL.

[Bison44]

Harry, when you say overpay double market value it sounds bad.  But giving a CDN kid and extra 10-20g a year (and we are probably talking about 8 kids) is PEANUTS, to any guy owner worth his salt.  That is not charity, that is a TINY investment in local talent that might pay off for them if some of these NCAA, L1O etc guys can play.  The USL will get these kids more exposure than CPL (to start with) and an extra 10-20g a year isnt much incentive to come to WPG instead of the USL.  

You are saying its money better spent on a academy.  I'm not sure if the fledgling league teams are going to start up academies in the short term.  Isnt picking up 8 decent kids for 40-50 instead of road kill at 30 a cheap way of bringing up young talent if you dont have a academy??  If the pathway to pro soccer involves making 7-11 wages that is pretty discouraging for a league that is trying promote soccer in canada.  

[matty]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

30k in 2019 is a joke for a minimum salary. By that I mean how incongruent it is with Montagliani saying that Canada needs a league where players can make a living and have a pro career strictly on soccer.

This "Canadian need to underestimate ourselves" is really depressing.

If i was 19 and offered say $25k, housing, living expenses and maybe $5k a year for university or college to play a sport that i basically had little chance to ever get paid to play before i would jump at it. As another user said: the cream will rise. Also this will allow teams to spend more at the top

[matty]

Btw since we're talking salaries, would you pay an national team player with a nation ranked 190-207th in the world much more than 30k? I know this thread is about Canadians but there will be internationals

[harrycoyster]

22 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Harry, when you say overpay double market value it sounds bad.  But giving a CDN kid and extra 10-20g a year (and we are probably talking about 8 kids) is PEANUTS, to any guy owner worth his salt.  That is not charity, that is a TINY investment in local talent that might pay off for them if some of these NCAA, L1O etc guys can play.  The USL will get these kids more exposure than CPL (to start with) and an extra 10-20g a year isnt much incentive to come to WPG instead of the USL.  

You are saying its money better spent on a academy.  I'm not sure if the fledgling league teams are going to start up academies in the short term.  Isnt picking up 8 decent kids for 40-50 instead of road kill at 30 a cheap way of bringing up young talent if you dont have a academy??  If the pathway to pro soccer involves making 7-11 wages that is pretty discouraging for a league that is trying promote soccer in canada.  

1) 100-150k a year is not peanuts. That is a MLS calibre player or a fully funded marketing campaign or an extra 300 seats in your stadium. Most, if not all, of the CPL owners will be millionaires, not billionaires. The difference between 8 3-year contracts at 50k a year and 8 3-year contracts at 25k a year is 600k. That won't be pocket change for these owners, and is entirely unnecessary given the market. 

2) Yes, I am saying that. MLS has shown that academies take a few years of working out the kinks and a full cycle of players in the academy to start getting good results. That's 10 years. I'd like to start producing players at the rate the US and Mexico are soon as possible. The CPL will do a great job at filling the development gap for Canadians in the 18-24 age range in year one, but there is no plan as of yet to fill the development gap in the 12-18 age range. That's pretty unarguably just as important. 

3) "Isnt picking up 8 decent kids for 40-50 instead of road kill at 30 a cheap way of bringing up young talent if you dont have a academy?" I reject your hypothesis. The fact is, for 50k you can get Canadians that would start in the CPL. The level of Canadians that we'd be okay with filling out the back-end of a CPL roster, don't demand 30k let alone 50k. There is a reason they are currently in non-professional leagues or in and out of USL teams. 

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, matty said:

If i was 19 and offered say $25k, housing, living expenses and maybe $5k a year for university or college to play a sport that i basically had little chance to ever get paid to play before i would jump at it. As another user said: the cream will rise. Also this will allow teams to spend more at the top

If you are paying 25 plus housing and living expenses college etc that will damn near get you to 50g per kid.  Which according to Harry is grossly overpaying and we should be looking at paying these kids what is the lowest market value for players is in the US (I'm glad he isnt my boss).  I guess if thats the way the owners need to run things to make ends meet, so be it.  But I'll be sitting at home if they fill the roster with a bunch of Americans, SA, Caribbean chumps.  If we wanted that, we could just watch MLS and forget our own league.

[jpg75]

In a closed player pool paying a young player at the bottom of the roster more does not make him a better player, nor does it raise the level of the team/league. That was my point about the quota, if you want more pay to equal to better play then you have to lift the quota and i don't think anyone wants that.

[jpg75]

14 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

.... we should be looking at paying these kids what is the lowest market value for players is in the US (I'm glad he isnt my boss).

But why? This league will be just starting out and the level of play will be closer to D2 than MLS. 

[matty]

28 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

If you are paying 25 plus housing and living expenses college etc that will damn near get you to 50g per kid. 

Not really I'm sure if you're likely looking closer to $35k in a 100-man dorm situation (like the NASL and USL do) with like a $3-500 monthly allowance.

28 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Which according to Harry is grossly overpaying and we should be looking at paying these kids what is the lowest market value for players is in the US (I'm glad he isnt my boss).

"Whaaaaa pay more for proven talent and play less for unproven. What an awful concept"

If we're paying established NASL or even MLS guys more than L1O guys there's no issue.

28 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

 But I'll be sitting at home if they fill the roster with a bunch of Americans, SA, Caribbean chumps.  If we wanted that, we could just watch MLS and forget our own league.

To bad for you that likely 30-50% of players will likely be chumps from outside of Canada, who've played in quality leagues likely. Such an awful shame that they'll be stabilising and raising the level of league play along side our guys, who have mostly been playing amateur soccer.

You're acting like every 19-22 year old kid, who has only ever played semi-pro, likely, should be handled 45-60k dollars right away. Say a team has 10 guys like that, you want them all eating up half of your cap? Or would you rather other them something low and see if any are worth really investing in while paying proven players an attractive sum? I want this league to be good for Canada but know it has to also be a quality league. Suck it up and accept low pay and internationals are needed especially in the beginning.

[Dub Narcotic]

Paying $50k to fringe players is a sure way for the league to go bankrupt in short order. Guys in the baseball, basketball, soccer and hockey minors make very little, and are generally at a stage in their life where they are willing to trade material comfort for opportunity. The CPL will almost certainly be no different.

[matty]

If you're doing this league you're doing it safe

Paying your starting 11 plus main 2 subs 70-80% of your cap (55-75k~ average) and your 8-10 other guys (all of whom should be Canadians under 23) 20-30% (25-35k~) to ensure the league is strong as it can be and you should have a 6+5 rule to sell Canadiana.

[Obinna]

80 / 20 rule.... 20 percent of the players to make 80 percent of the money. You heard it here first

 

[ChrisinOrleans]

The salary cap, as well as the level of competition will determine what type of player is ultimately selected to be on each team. Since I usually pick Québec examples, I'll run with that. 

Hypothetical CanPL team 1 is looking for a starting striker, and looks to the Francophone player pool. Assuming they want to go the MLS root and spend 80% of their budget on like 2 people, they'll look at the following levels (funds in approximate $CAD):

Olivier Occéan - Norwegian 1st division - 275k a year
Anthony Jackson-Hamel - US 1st division - 180k a year
Pierre Rudolph-Mayard - PLSQ - 55k a year

Each of those players brings something different, from name recognition and experience, to availability, cost effectiveness and willingness to play in a brand new league. Each would also need a business case, and would all depend on the assumptions under which each front office is operating. 

[Obinna]

31 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

The salary cap, as well as the level of competition will determine what type of player is ultimately selected to be on each team. Since I usually pick Québec examples, I'll run with that. 

Hypothetical CanPL team 1 is looking for a starting striker, and looks to the Francophone player pool. Assuming they want to go the MLS root and spend 80% of their budget on like 2 people, they'll look at the following levels (funds in approximate $CAD):

Olivier Occéan - Norwegian 1st division - 275k a year
Anthony Jackson-Hamel - US 1st division - 180k a year
Pierre Rudolph-Mayard - PLSQ - 55k a year

Each of those players brings something different, from name recognition and experience, to availability, cost effectiveness and willingness to play in a brand new league. Each would also need a business case, and would all depend on the assumptions under which each front office is operating. 

Do you want AJH to leave a great situation, do you believe he will leave a great situation, or both?

[Big_M]

Occean's production has gone way down in Norway..will retire before cpl

[ChrisinOrleans]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Do you want AJH to leave a great situation, do you believe he will leave a great situation, or both?

I believe in the laws of economics, which was the original point of my post. Assuming there is a team in a location in which he wants to play, paying a price he would accept as a player, at a level of competition that he would accept, then yes. Those are all "pull" factors though, and do not include l'Impact's FO making an offer or emotional plea to him to stay. 

 

1 hour ago, Big_M said:

Occean's production has gone way down in Norway..will retire before cpl

Again, depending on the level of play in CanPL, he may literally retire in CanPL from the Norwegian top flight. Accepting 160k a year instead of 250k is a nice golden parachute if you have a willing team. 

[matty]

Anyone ever like looked at Sandor's power rankings? https://the11.ca/intrinsically-canadian-power-rankings-mls-week-29nasl-week-26usl-week-27/

[ChrisinOrleans]

21 minutes ago, matty said:

Anyone ever like looked at Sandor's power rankings? https://the11.ca/intrinsically-canadian-power-rankings-mls-week-29nasl-week-26usl-week-27/

Yeah, it's interesting. I cannot say with any academic certainty that it shows anything relevant. Does having 30+ Canadians in USL mean that we're producing decent talent when the list doesn't include how many Canadians are in European lower leagues as well? 

The only thing the list ever made me wonder was whether it was more beneficial to go to a European lower league, or a North American lower league?  

[Mike Thompson]

Do you guys think there will be a salary cap? I have a feeling that an ownership like the one of Hamilton, Ottawa or Winnipeg (CFL) will have a lot more spending money than FC Edmonton, Halifax, Calgary, Saskatchewan, Quebec City or Moncton etc 

[Grizzly]

12 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

Yeah, it's interesting. I cannot say with any academic certainty that it shows anything relevant.

It shows once again that the Whitecaps hate Canada!

[shermanator]

Was thinking about this for a bit, and I think a few of the national team players that have to be targeted are Simon Thomas, Simeon Jackson and Marcus Haber. All three appear to have fallen out of favour with their clubs (even with Haber's decent form last year), and all three are playing at a high enough level to set a decent playing standard for the league.

I would also argue Jonathan Viscosi, who has played every minute for hopefully-to-be-promoted TPS would be a good signing in goal. 

As for local players, Dylon Powley and Elijah Adekugbe are locks for local players who can fill squad rotation roles to start.

[Obinna]

http://www.rednationonline.ca/Articles2016/Top10CanPLprospectsfromUSports.aspx

Very interesting to see Tyler Forsey come in at number 10 on this list.

I've played against him several times in the Newfoundland Challenge Cup league and I think the snippit on him is pretty accurate. The kid has a lot of pace, not afraid to drive towards goal, has a greedy streak, which is not a bad thing as a forward. Can use both feet. Likes to make runs in behind. Has good feet and ball control at the local level, but I wonder if that would translate to a level of play higher than Challenge Cup / CIS soccer. I think he's 23 or 24 now and one noteworthy thing is that he's flirted with the pro game before. Several years back he went over to Germany to trial with a 2.Bundesliga club. I can't remember if it was Dynamo Dresden or Energie Cottbus. At any rate, it was with the second team. He didn't catch on and I can't remember why but I think it was related to attitude or temperament and not ability. I read something like that anyhow. I don't know him personally but I would not be surprised based on things I have heard about him from ex teammates and whatnot. All the same, would like to think he's the sort of guy who can find a home in the CanPL

[Obinna]

On 9/26/2017 at 8:00 PM, shermanator said:

Was thinking about this for a bit, and I think a few of the national team players that have to be targeted are Simon Thomas, Simeon Jackson and Marcus Haber. All three appear to have fallen out of favour with their clubs (even with Haber's decent form last year), and all three are playing at a high enough level to set a decent playing standard for the league.

I would also argue Jonathan Viscosi, who has played every minute for hopefully-to-be-promoted TPS would be a good signing in goal. 

As for local players, Dylon Powley and Elijah Adekugbe are locks for local players who can fill squad rotation roles to start.

Isn't Haber injured?

I think Daniel Haber is more likely. I think Marcus still has a lot to offer at the SPL or equivalent level. Same with Simeon Jackson. He would be an absolute star singing for the league. I think that would be like David Villa coming to MLS. Former EPL player and national teamer. Would be huge but I think that's a dream signing.

 

[matty]

14 minutes ago, Obinna said:

 

I think Daniel Haber is more likely. I think Marcus still has a lot to offer at the SPL or equivalent level. Same with Simeon Jackson. He would be an absolute star singing for the league. I think that would be like David Villa coming to MLS. Former EPL player and national teamer. Would be huge but I think that's a dream signing.

 

I don't think it's a dream. It's fairly possible that higher end players will be getting $80-125k unless the cap is much lower than early reports. A $115k salary would likely interest someone like jackson, as could the likely lighter schedule.