Canadian Premier League

[Ivan]

31 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

 

Why would they even bother to meet with TFC, if they don't need them to proceed? The key is getting enough letters of intent signed and that is what Victor Montagliani says is happening over the next few months, so they still have to translate expressions of interest into concrete action with it being the CSA that has the final say on what gets sanctioned rather than the Ticats. Think the reality is that things are not as far along as you like to think they are and the full effects of the rapprochement between MLS and the CSA have still to unfold. First Scott Mitchell visits the MLS combine and now he's meeting the TFC top brass...

Maybe TFC wants TFC II to be part of the league and is petitioning CPL for entry?

[C2SKI]

1 minute ago, Soccerpro said:

I understand that people don't want the CPL to be seen as a reserve league, but I would want the stability that MLSE can help bring to the league. You know they have deep pockets and won't cut and run. In addition, they're ability to cross promote amongst their brands would be great.

I don't get why a club interested in helping create a league would continually discredit it. To me, it just seems like maneuvering to stay atop the pyramid.

[Ansem]

38 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Why would they even bother to meet with TFC, if they don't need them to proceed?

Why not meet them? MLSE as a minority partner/investor is more than welcome, but a B Team in CPL is far from being a priority, if ever remotely being entertained as a future option. 0% chance MLS B team are granted franchise in CPL at launch

 

 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

2 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Maybe TFC wants TFC II to be part of the league and is petitioning CPL for entry?

What is "CPL" at this point? Victor Montagliani said in an interview on the MLS website that the league that the CSA are working on hasn't been given that name although he thinks it is a good name and that Paul Beirne wasn't hired by the league but by a swathe of the ownership. The CSA ultimately do the sanctioning. The way it looks to me is that the meeting between the Ticats and TFC is one between potential stakeholders in the new league to figure out how to proceed, because right now the potential investors are not on the same page.

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, C2SKI said:

I don't get why a club interested in helping create a league would continually discredit it. To me, it just seems like maneuvering to stay atop the pyramid.

Because in a single entity league like MLS, TFC & MLSE are co-owner of that league. Their allegiance is to MLS first and foremost while MLS front office is where media garbage such as this comes from. Everything TFC are saying publicly have been pre-approved by MLS and anyone thinking MLS don't care about CPL starting are delusional and don't understand business

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

What is "CPL" at this point? Victor Montagliani said in an interview on the MLS website that the league that the CSA are working on hasn't been given that name although he thinks it is a good name and that Paul Beirne wasn't hired by the league but by a swathe of the ownership. The CSA ultimately do the sanctioning. The way it looks to me is that the meeting between the Ticats and TFC is one between potential stakeholders in the new league to figure out how to proceed, because right now the potential investors are not on the same page.

You think CPL group would welcome with open arms a potential owner that keeps devaluating their endeavours?

If MLSE want to put money in the league as a sponsor or minority partner/owner, they are welcome to do so, dumping a B team in the league will never fly...that's why they aren't on the same page

[Complete Homer]

36 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

 

Why would they even bother to meet with TFC, if they don't need them to proceed? The key is getting enough letters of intent signed and that is what Victor Montagliani says is happening over the next few months, so they still have to translate expressions of interest into concrete action with it being the CSA that has the final say on what gets sanctioned rather than the Ticats. Think the reality is that things are not as far along as you like to think they are and the full effects of the rapprochement between MLS and the CSA have still to unfold. First Scott Mitchell visits the MLS combine and now he's meeting the TFC top brass...

If we are playing the speculation game, I'd say it's because there is room for mutual benefit, not because they are "needed" for CPL to launch. 

From TFC's side, there are benefits. Having a team in the league helps them shape the narrative in a way that mitigates competition for market share. I suspect they are also under similar pressure as IMFC to either increase their efforts put into TFC II or get out of USL amidst the fallout from the USSF D2 sanctioning issue, and they would probably want to explore options outside of USL

From CPL's side (or rather, the group of owners currently representing what will be CPL), the benefits include an additional franchise with wealthy ownership (even if it's not a need, it is helpful when the league will be small by most standards, especially if they agree to a smaller market). Further, including TFC somewhat protects against MLSE actively campaigning/marketing against the league. 

I'm sure there's a sweet spot in which an arrangement could be made, but saying CPL is DOA without MLSE seems baseless IMO

[lazlo_80]

49 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

 

Why would they even bother to meet with TFC, if they don't need them to proceed? The key is getting enough letters of intent signed and that is what Victor Montagliani says is happening over the next few months, so they still have to translate expressions of interest into concrete action with it being the CSA that has the final say on what gets sanctioned rather than the Ticats. Think the reality is that things are not as far along as you like to think they are and the full effects of the rapprochement between MLS and the CSA have still to unfold. First Scott Mitchell visits the MLS combine and now he's meeting the TFC top brass...

Respectfully disagree. It's business. It costs nothing to take a meeting. I don't think you can read that much into a meeting with Toronto FC. You could even make the exact opposite argument that Toronto FC wanted to meet with them because they're coming to the table, hat in hand trying to become a part of it. I definitely don't think thats the case. I'm just saying you can't read that much into a meeting, and we can all fill in the blanks to fit our own narratives about the status of this league.

Love Larson adding the swipe at the end of the article at the project. That dude knows trolling is the key to his social media status...

[Complete Homer]

37 minutes ago, TFC07 said:

Let's hope TFC 2 team stay in Toronto and maybe play at BMO field instead of Hamilton.  

 

Let Hamilton have their own team and give them a rivalry with TFC 2 and Ottawa (?).   

TFC II to Hamilton died long ago. 

[Levi Oakey]

20 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

What is "CPL" at this point? Victor Montagliani said in an interview on the MLS website that the league that the CSA are working on hasn't been given that name although he thinks it is a good name and that Paul Beirne wasn't hired by the league but by a swathe of the ownership. The CSA ultimately do the sanctioning. The way it looks to me is that the meeting between the Ticats and TFC is one between potential stakeholders in the new league to figure out how to proceed, because right now the potential investors are not on the same page.

You really need to start coming out to supporters group meetings.

[Levi Oakey]

20 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

What is "CPL" at this point? Victor Montagliani said in an interview on the MLS website that the league that the CSA are working on hasn't been given that name although he thinks it is a good name and that Paul Beirne wasn't hired by the league but by a swathe of the ownership. The CSA ultimately do the sanctioning. The way it looks to me is that the meeting between the Ticats and TFC is one between potential stakeholders in the new league to figure out how to proceed, because right now the potential investors are not on the same page.

You really need to start coming out to supporters group meetings.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

9 minutes ago, Ansem said:

You think CPL group would welcome with open arms a potential owner that keeps devaluating their endeavours?

If MLSE want to put money in the league,. they are welcome to do so, dumping a B team will never fly...that's why they aren't on the same page

Clearly the Ticats and TFC are not on the same page. Duane Rollins told us he thought a league called CPL (as trademarked from Ticats HQ) would be sanctioned at a CSA meeting in December, but Victor Montagliani subsequently stated that the new league had no name yet. There is no indication any sanctioning has happened in other words and since then Rollins has stopped tweeting about CPL and mlsintoronto has been very quiet on the thread he started and it is now Scott Mitchell's that gets mentioned in the press. What remains to be seen is how the CSA and MLS reaching an arrangement over the domestic player controversy and actively cooperating over things like Generation Adidas Canada has changed the dynamic where this new domestic pro league is concerned. Although you may not like it, it's possible that three MLS reserve teams fits the CSA's agenda at this point.

[shermanator]

 

[matty]

4 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Although you may not like it, it's possible that three MLS reserve teams fits the CSA's agenda at this point.

I thought you said the Fury were not a reserve team?

[Ansem]

Just now, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Clearly the Ticats and TFC are not on the same page. Duane Rollins told us he thought a league called CPL (as trademarked from Ticats HQ) would be sanctioned at a CSA meeting in December, but Victor Montagliani subsequently stated that the new league had no name yet. There is no indication any sanctioning has happened in other words and since then Rollins has stopped tweeting about CPL and mlsintoronto has been very quiet on the thread he started and it is now Scott Mitchell's that gets mentioned in the press. What remains to be seen is how the CSA and MLS reaching an arrangement over the domestic player controversy and actively cooperating over things like Generation Adidas Canada has changed the dynamic where this new domestic pro league is concerned. Although you may not like it, it's possible that three MLS reserve teams fits the CSA's agenda at this point.

I really don't get why you're so against Canada having it's own league without relying on America. You're minimizing and exaggerating everything to feed your position but crack down hard on anyone doing the same for the opposite point of view. You're borderline trolling

[Complete Homer]

6 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Clearly the Ticats and TFC are not on the same page. Duane Rollins told us he thought a league called CPL (as trademarked from Ticats HQ) would be sanctioned at a CSA meeting in December, but Victor Montagliani subsequently stated that the new league had no name yet. There is no indication any sanctioning has happened in other words and since then Rollins has stopped tweeting about CPL and mlsintoronto has been very quiet on the thread he started and it is now Scott Mitchell's that gets mentioned in the press. What remains to be seen is how the CSA and MLS reaching an arrangement over the domestic player controversy and actively cooperating over things like Generation Adidas Canada has changed the dynamic where this new domestic pro league is concerned. Although you may not like it, it's possible that three MLS reserve teams fits the CSA's agenda at this point.

Possible? Sure. But let's not pretend you're doing more than reading tea leaves here. Those are some pretty soft signs

[shermanator]

Steven Sandor recently did an interview with Tomer Chencinski, where he talked about his desire to move back to Canada and play here. He discussed how difficult it is to become a pro in this country given the current system.

http://the11.ca/tomer-the-rover-canadian-keeper-chencinski-opens-up-about-his-decision-move-to-ireland/

Quote

Chencinski spoke about the pressures of balancing family, having to move from country to country, and his hopes that the proposed Canadian Premier League will come to fruition.

“If you’re not in the game, then you don’t understand. I’m not meaning that in a negative way, but it’s the truth. People say ‘why did you move?’ ‘I needed a new opportunity.’ ‘Why didn’t you just stay?’ Maybe I wanted to stay, maybe I didn’t. But, sometimes, you can’t stay. Or sometimes you have to move. I’ve moved to a lot of places in my career and, maybe some people look at that in a negative way, but if you go and speak to all my coaches and the clubs that I’ve played at, no one would say one negative thing about me. I’ve always moved forward. Whether it was that I signed for two years and then I transferred after one year, I always did it so I could move forward in my career. Whether it was in the football sense or the personal sense, I always did it try and get better. Sometimes, people don’t understand that. I make sure what is best for me and my family. At the end of the day, that’s all I can do.

“I would love to [return to Canada], maybe in terms of MLS or the Canadian Premier League. I know that league is starting in 2018, and that’s something that’s very interesting for me and my wife as well. She’d be ecstatic to move back home. We’ve been together, this is basically our fourth country together. She loves the experience and loves living in Europe but, at the same time, she misses her family just like I do. I left to the U.S. when I was 18, to go to school. It’s been almost 15 years since I lived at home. It’s difficult, being away from friends, being away from family. Being able to come back home is something I really want to do. Playing, and then at some point make my way to coaching or something with the academy. I’ve done some of the coaching licences, my badges.”

We all know Canadian players who haven’t been able to prolong their careers, as they can’t find work at U.S. teams, or contracts in lower leagues don’t pay enough when you have a wife and kids. Sometimes, players have to abandon their careers because real life comes calling, not because they’ve lost their competitive fire. Chencinski feels for many the many Canadians who haven’t been able to extend their careers.

“It’s a shame that we as Canadians don’t have opportunities like they have in other countries. Being a Canadian player and making my way to Europe, I wasn’t the most technically gifted goalkeeper or something like that. But if somebody said ‘no you’re not good enough’ I said ‘no problem.’ I moved them to the side, and thought — who is the next person who can help me? My mentality is to never give up, and that’s something I’ve been born with. But it’s difficult,for us as Canadian players, the comparison would be a skier from Nigeria. You want to be a professional skier and you come from Nigeria — how am I going to become one? The system in Canada right now is not helpful and it doesn’t assist players to become professional. It’s not like Europe, of course, but in the U.S. more and more you can get homegrown players. You can get into academies. It’s much easier for a player for the U.S. to go to Europe than it is from Canada.

“Think about the size of Canada. And, honestly, how many professional teams do we have in Canada? Just five? Six? Seven? (Ed. note: The fact that Chencinski is lamenting the soccer landscape by overestimating just how many teams we have in this country is a sad thing unto itself.)

“So how do you want to develop players, how do you want to develop the national team, if you have five professional teams in the country when you can take a small country like Iceland, which in the first division have 12 teams. In the second division they have another 12 teams. So, just in the top two divisions, they have 24 professional teams.  Take a look at another small country and compare it to all of North America. How many fully professional teams do we have in all of North America? Is it 50? If you take England, just the Premiership and the Championship you have that many teams. It’s a shame. It’s difficult to develop players. Jason (Jason deVos, Canada Soccer’s new director of development), I know that with his vision that’s going to help develop things. Victor (Montagliani) now being with CONCACAF is going to help. So the game is starting to pick up. But 20 to 25 years ago our national team was better than the U.S. national team.”

“There’s a lot of guys on the national team who, unfortunately, don’t have jobs, who get called in — and I’ve never seen that before. I’m not saying ‘oh why am I not getting called in?’ I’m not even thinking about that. I feel that we have guys who can play football and should have jobs, but don’t. Why?”

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

1 minute ago, matty said:

I thought you said the Fury were not a reserve team?

They are not, so I have no idea where you are going with that. FC Montreal provided more opportunities for Canadian players and that is the CSA's stated goal.

Just now, Ansem said:

I really don't get why you're so against Canada having it's own league...

Nothing against Canada having a league. Just want to see something in place that actually works having watched the last coast-to-coast league collapse.

[matty]

1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

They are not, so I have no idea where you are going with that. FC Montreal provided more opportunities for Canadian players and that is the CSA's stated goal.

You've said it like 3 times that Fury's relationship to Impact wasn't that of a reserve team, which is what I'm referring to, and yet...

11 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Although you may not like it, it's possible that three MLS reserve teams fits the CSA's agenda at this point.

Why would they create a second team, when they each have a USL side including the Fury, to play reservists in? So you either think that TFC2, Whitecaps 2 or Calgary and the Fury would be moved to CPL or a 2nd RESERVE team would be started up by each side.

Also FC Montreal did provide kids a place to play and develop a bit but it played at a level under what is currently needed to get Canada going on the world stage.

BTW, the idea TFC seems to have is that of a YOUTH team not a reservist one.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

You seem determined to have an argument. The latest direct quote from Bill Manning mentioned TFC II with respect to the new league:

“I’m OK with (our possible CPL team) not being called TFC II, but it’s still going to be the same thing,” Manning said.

One of Kurt Larson's earlier articles on the subject made mention of the other two MLS team being potentially interested as well. How the Fury factor into all this remains to be seen. They are an affiliate rather than a reserve team at this point and sign almost all of their roster completely independently of the Impact.

[Complete Homer]

13 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

They are not, so I have no idea where you are going with that. FC Montreal provided more opportunities for Canadian players and that is the CSA's stated goal.

Nothing against Canada having a league. Just want to see something in place that actually works having watched the last coast-to-coast league collapse.

Not meaning to pile on, but what exactly about MLS owners makes them the secret to stability? 

-IMFC just dropped their USL team after a couple seasons, so they aren't a garauntee for accepting perpetual losses

-They bring billionaire ownership groups, but it's not like they are the only fish in the sea

-They bring the opportunity to unite the pyramid and avoid infighting, but by the same token risk sinking the entire operation from day 1 by giving the league the reputation of minor league soccer 

Again, I'm not adamantly against MLS2 sides (branded appropriately), I just don't think they are necessarily the best move. I suppose if you don't believe they have a committed core of owners, it would be internally consistent to believe that CPL needs MLS2 teams, but it is not consistent to take my word on the TFC II thing while ignoring what I said on the "core group of owners". Those two bits came from very similarly placed people

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

You also seem determined to have an argument. Can distinctly remember posting that I wouldn't get excited about the TFC II to London thing until I saw a London Free Press story about it. What I think is not what's important in all of this. What matters is what Victor Montagliani and the CSA exec think and recent indications suggest that they are not quite on the same page as the Ticats as to whether the league is called CPL and on Paul Beirne (felt sorry for the guy when I read the MLS website interview and hope all is still looking positive in terms of the career move) being a league hire.

[matty]

36 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

You seem determined to have an argument. The latest direct quote from Bill Manning mentioned TFC II with respect to the new league:

“I’m OK with (our possible CPL team) not being called TFC II, but it’s still going to be the same thing,” Manning said.

One of Kurt Larson's earlier articles on the subject made mention of the other two MLS team being potentially interested as well. How the Fury factor into all this remains to be seen. They are an affiliate rather than a reserve team at this point and sign almost all of their roster completely independently of the Impact.

Do you remember the first article with Manning on the CPL? Where he mentions playing young up and coming players and maybe seeing TFC3 go to the CPL. Do you recall it? If they are involved the goal they have is U20s playing and that's not our current issue. MLS clubs are not likely to ditch their USL sides and so you expect multiple reservists sides like Larson (one in USL and one in CPL)

Larson also seems to give some weight to the reports about the CPL not wanting MLS sides playing reserve sides in it and agrees doing so would give the league a minor league feel which you've stress would make the league even more unappealing to many and could cause the league to be even more of a money pit (for both MLS sides and non-MLS owners).

BBTB to be honest your vision of the CPL feels like the CSL without the bribes

[Complete Homer]

28 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

You also seem determined to have an argument. Can distinctly remember posting that I wouldn't get excited about the TFC II to London thing until I saw a London Free Press story about it. What I think is not what's important in all of this. What matters is what Victor Montagliani and the CSA exec think and recent indications suggest that they are not quite on the same page as the Ticats as to whether the league is called CPL and on Paul Beirne (felt sorry for the guy when I read the MLS website interview and hope all is still looking positive in terms of the career move) being a league hire.

I'm seeking out an argument? Usually when 90% of people in a room are annoyed with you, they aren't the problem. 

As for your actual point, saying that the league is at odds with itself over a single very circumstantial piece of evidence like the TiCats trademarking league names and VM saying there isn't yet a set name is a big reach. There are so many less convoluted explanations 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It was London in the earlier tweeted info, which tied into the link up with FC London at L1O level.

I think I would be okay with it being London, as I kinda doubt they would be involved otherwise.  And I think it would be good for the game there(to see the highest level possible live).