Canadian Premier League

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

12 hours ago, matty said:

So Halifax, do we move it to our list of confirmed locations along with Hamilton?

Launch Teams
Confirmed: Hamilton
Pushing for It: Halifax
Increadibly, Heavily, Massively Rumoured: Regina, Winnipeg, Calgary
Can't Ignore the Likeliness: Toronto/GTA

Expansions
If they wanna: Ottawa, Edmonton
50/50: Victoria, Quebec City
Dark Horses: Vancouver, Montreal
Long Shots: KW, London, Moncton, St. John's

That's 16 like the CSA "wants" eventually

Toronto Sun: Feb 16th 2016

http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Soccer/Canada/2016/02/16/22604422.html?cid=rsssportssoccer

It will co-exist with Major League Soccer, which has clubs in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal.

“The type of stakeholders we’re talking to are serious people with serious ability and serious intent,” Montagliani said.

“This is not something that is mutually exclusive of MLS. This is inclusive.”

Fast forward a year and MLSE are meeting the Ticats about it. There is  evidence that the CSA want the MLS franchises involved in this, even if the unnamed source of certain tweeters and podcasters does not. As for "Increadibly, Heavily, Massively Rumoured: Regina, Winnipeg, Calgary", I think you would need to live in one of those cities and be desperate for a team to see it that way at this point. I have only seen anything recent for Calgary (from Shermanator who seemed quite downbeat about Calgary Foothills involvement) and the kick-off is alleged to be just over a year away. Leases need to be negotiated, staff need to be hired, etc 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

5 hours ago, Soccerpro said:

Where is the money for a stadium going to come from?

Looks like the investors would pay for it, although they appear to possibly still be looking for those. If there were more Halifax type scenarios unfolding right now it would be easier to see how a 2018 launch can happen.

https://www.localxpress.ca/local-sports/chris-cochrane-kicking-around-the-idea-of-a-halifax-pro-soccer-franchise-511179

Q: What’s happening behind the scenes and what’s the timeline on the project?

A: “Behind the scenes right now we’re doing our work to figure out costs and to understand what we can and can’t do and have a budget in place. We are talking to investors, we are trying to pull together the (support) team, then we will look to get more public.

[Gopherbashi]

7 hours ago, matty said:

I agree also what gets announced first Halifax City FC or the CPL

If Halifax doesn't even have investors or the city lines up yet (or a stadium designed, funded, and built!), and they need to do that by April, then I wouldn't be holding my breath for a Halifax announcement any time soon.

[Gopherbashi]

11 hours ago, matty said:

So Halifax, do we move it to our list of confirmed locations along with Hamilton?

Launch Teams
Confirmed: Hamilton
Pushing for It: Halifax
Increadibly, Heavily, Massively Rumoured: Regina, Winnipeg, Calgary
Can't Ignore the Likeliness: Toronto/GTA

Expansions
If they wanna: Ottawa, Edmonton
50/50: Victoria, Quebec City
Dark Horses: Vancouver, Montreal
Long Shots: KW, London, Moncton, St. John's

That's 16 like the CSA "wants" eventually

I don't think Regina, Winnipeg, or Calgary are massively rumoured; moreso massively expected.

There's been zero rumours about anything for these western teams, only expectations that it must surely happen and hypotheses about who the owners would be.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

9 hours ago, zen said:

I have a solution that I think warrants some attention. Each MLS team assigns 8 players (USL roster) as loanees..

If all the teams in the new pro league are viewed as MLS affiliates in terms of the domestic player rules, nobody would need to fear the effect of signing there rather than in the USL on their future prospects. The CSA is working with MLS now on issues like that and it really doesn't make sense having a new league running in parallel with what the three MLS franchises are doing for their pro level development of Canadian players that emerge from their Academy systems, so from a CMNT standpoint the key is making things work best for the career progression of top Canadian players and that means a spirit of cooperation rather than rivalry.

[matty]

6 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Toronto Sun: Feb 16th 2016

http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Soccer/Canada/2016/02/16/22604422.html?cid=rsssportssoccer

It will co-exist with Major League Soccer, which has clubs in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal.

“The type of stakeholders we’re talking to are serious people with serious ability and serious intent,” Montagliani said.

“This is not something that is mutually exclusive of MLS. This is inclusive.”

Fast forward a year and MLSE are meeting the Ticats about it. There is  evidence that the CSA want the MLS franchises involved in this, even if the unnamed source of certain tweeters and podcasters does not. As for "Increadibly, Heavily, Massively Rumoured: Regina, Winnipeg, Calgary", I think you would need to live in one of those cities and be desperate for a team to see it that way at this point. I have only seen anything recent for Calgary (from Shermanator who seemed quite downbeat about Calgary Foothills involvement) and the kick-off is alleged to be just over a year away. Leases need to be negotiated, staff need to be hired, etc 

My god please stop.

DO YOU NOT READ ANYTHING. HAVE YOU NOT READ THE SPEC STUFF EVER?

The Spec Nov 15, 2016: ....Beirne says when it comes to potential ownership groups "there's not a lot to talk about", although the Tiger-Cats are in and have a played a significant role in getting the concept off the ground. It's expected that ownership in some other Canadian cities will have either full or partial connection to CFL teams.

It's anticipated that there will be teams in Hamilton, Regina, Calgary and Winnipeg and perhaps Victoria and that the Fury and Edmonton FC will move over to the CPL as well.

Are you gonna say "oh they're off on FCE and the Fury so everything is wrong" (which still is up in the air)? Do you just throw stuff like this out of the window because it fits with the idea that CFL teams in those cities are involved? Do you think Beirne is a total liar?

The Spec is a legit newspaper and they published the above while talking with Beirne so it's safe to assume he mentioned much of the above. It also plays along with McGrane's narrative (which I know you tossed out the window) and both men are confirmed to be involved at least with the Hamilton team. Yes this could be wrong in the end but it's actually there published by a legit paper and has people involved attached.

YOU ARE IGNORING THINGS

And yes they're meeting but would you not meet with billionaires if they wanted to hear about your league when they're involved in the fucking sport? Do you honestly think this is proof they want MLS reserve teams and that maybe they're not working to have a relationship with established pro teams in this country?

You also didn't bother posting everything otherwise you'd include this note

“This is not something that is mutually exclusive of MLS. This is inclusive.”

That said, an MLS source recently told the Sun they were disappointed in the lack of dialogue as it relates to the formation of a new all-Canadian league.

That’s not to say there won’t be benefits.

Canadian MLS clubs will finally have the option to loan players to fellow Canadian clubs outside international transfer windows.

Where those clubs will be located has yet to be announced, though Hamilton will likely house a flagship team.

The six to 10-club league could also feature clubs in B.C., Calgary, Regina and Winnipeg

Yes TFC could end up with a teams but it's more likely the CPL wants to work with them on loans rather than having them own a team.

Back to Calgary, Regina and Winnipeg. As shown above these 3 cities are getting a lot of mentions in the mainstream sporting press as being front-runners for teams along with Hamilton and they fit the CFL rumours that get play as well (Victoria misses the later and is sometimes just BC so I left it out). This combined with the blog, podcast and twitter reports puts them in the "Increadibly, Heavily, Massively Rumoured" section.

[matty]

2 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

I don't think Regina, Winnipeg, or Calgary are massively rumoured; moreso massively expected.

There's been zero rumours about anything for these western teams, only expectations that it must surely happen and hypotheses about who the owners would be.

see above post

[matty]

2 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

If Halifax doesn't even have investors or the city lines up yet (or a stadium designed, funded, and built!), and they need to do that by April, then I wouldn't be holding my breath for a Halifax announcement any time soon.

You get it was a joke right?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

34 minutes ago, matty said:

see above post

The story says, it's expected and it's anticipated so that doesn't actually contradict what Gopherbashi wrote and nothing that you want to take from the article flows from the quote made by Paul Beirne. Anybody reading this thread and Duane Rollins' blog would pick up a strong impression of who is likely to be in quite quickly and that's what the journalist probably did to flesh out his story. The problem is that if it's only a year away the western CFL teams should be doing what Hamilton are doing in terms of contacting season ticket holders, circulating surveys, trademarking possible names etc, but there is absolutely nothing happening.

Beyond that, even when there are mentions of other full and partial CFL ownership groups made on here, there are two obvious ones that actually have made fully attributed comments related to the new league in recent times and those would be the owners of the Ottawa Fury and 2/3rds of the owners of Toronto FC, who both have soccer teams up and running that could make a relatively smooth transition to a new setup in time for a 2018 launch, so don't need to do any of the things the Ticats are currently doing. You don't need the western CFL teams to be able to truthfully claim that several full or partial CFL ownership groups are potentially going to be involved at this point and they could have around six groups ready to launch next year under that scenario, if PDL teams like K/W United are also taking a look at it.

[Alex D]

16 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Anybody reading this thread and Duane Rollins' blog would pick up a strong impression of who is likely to be in quite quickly and that's what the journalist probably did to flesh out his story.

Or he could be a real journalist with credible sources and is not pulling shit out his ass to fit the narrative he wants on a message board. 

[Levi Oakey]

36 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

If PDL teams like K/W United are also taking a look at it.

I mean, I know it is my own club. But we aren't your average PDL team. At least not from the ownership side of things. Our owner was the guy who knocked on MLSE's door and said that Toronto deserves a pro soccer team. When United launched John McCrane, Paul Beirne, Victor Montagliani and a host of other names that are connected to this league came out to the Tannery in Kitchener and shook hands with our supporters saying we deserved our own professional team, that we wouldn't be in PDL for long with the people we had involved.

Right from the get go, Barry talked about moving KW far beyond PDL and even USL. Barry has a chunk of change from when Pillers was sold for around 250 million. So it ain't chump change.

My experiences with FC London, who you (@BringBackTheBlizzard) seem to think is next in line, is that they are great owners, but they aren't very connected to the soccer community beyond London. All this to say, I really think you should come out to supporters groups meetings. There is alot more information there than on Twitter and especially to what is on this board.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Would do if I could but not feasible at the moment, unfortunately. Maybe down the road. I wouldn't go as far as saying FC London is next line, for what it's worth, but in the past they have talked about trying to run a USL D3 level operation.

Beyond that I think you'll find I was the first to mention K/W in the what teams do you expect to be in CPL at launch thread that was active a couple of months back. PDL teams were limited in what they could do by the moratorium that the CSA imposed so I know full well that in some cases they actually do want to be fully pro and that makes them obvious candidates for a new domestic pro league.

[the Humberlands]

11 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

Hope to see them eventually, definitely not expecting to see 2018 if they are still working on it

I don't expect Halifax to be included in the league from the onset (ie. 2018), but I do see them in the league as an expansion team the following year... or part of the league launch if that is pushed back to 2019.

But, I say this without any insight into negotiations, just a personal thought blurted out.

[matty]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The story says, it's expected and it's anticipated so that doesn't actually contradict what Gopherbashi wrote and nothing that you want to take from the article flows from the quote made by Paul Beirne. Anybody reading this thread and Duane Rollins' blog would pick up a strong impression of who is likely to be in quite quickly and that's what the journalist probably did to flesh out his story. The problem is that if it's only a year away the western CFL teams should be doing what Hamilton are doing in terms of contacting season ticket holders, circulating surveys, trademarking possible names etc, but there is absolutely nothing happening.

Beyond that, even when there are mentions of other full and partial CFL ownership groups made on here, there are two obvious ones that actually have made fully attributed comments related to the new league in recent times and those would be the owners of the Ottawa Fury and 2/3rds of the owners of Toronto FC, who both have soccer teams up and running that could make a relatively smooth transition to a new setup in time for a 2018 launch, so don't need to do any of the things the Ticats are currently doing. You don't need the western CFL teams to be able to truthfully claim that several full or partial CFL ownership groups are potentially going to be involved at this point and they could have around six groups ready to launch next year under that scenario, if PDL teams like K/W United are also taking a look at it.

 you're so stubborn. It's crazy. 

You put more stock into this forum than a real journalist (who is likely not quoting or revealing too much because he's been asked not to) and people who are actually involved. They don't need to do what Hamilton is doing at the current time. 

While i agree the fury could jump (i think they will in the end) but your hardon for tfc being involved is weird because you put such stress on how little time is left and how there's no way the billionaires that run the flames could pull this off with such little yet know the mls teams are only now being spoken with and expect them to be part of the foundation

[Ansem]

I personally don't want the Fury in CPL after their recent moves. Crossing fingers for a Melnyk to start something in Ottawa himself

*personal opinion*

[matty]

14 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I personally don't want the Fury in CPL after their recent moves. Crossing fingers for a Melnyk to start something in Ottawa himself

*personal opinion*

Same but i have a feeling they'll end up in the cpl

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

8 minutes ago, matty said:

 ...[TFC] are only now being spoken with and expect them to be part of the foundation

TFC met Victor Montagliani about the new league that doesn't have a name yet and didn't hire Paul Beirne back in September and really what would they need to do to get involved? They have players and coaches under contract, and two stadiums available and unlike most no huge need to sell lots of season tickets. It's relatively easy for ownership groups that already have teams up and running to get involved in something like this. Those that don't would normally be expected to be doing the sort of things Hamilton and Halifax are at this point, because they need to get the word out to fans and sponsors.

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

TFC met Victor Montagliani about the new league that doesn't have a name yet and didn't hire Paul Beirne back in September and really what would they need to do to get involved? They have players and coaches under contract, and two stadiums available and unlike most no huge need to sell lots of season tickets. It's relatively easy for ownership groups that already have teams up and running to get involved in something like this. Those that don't would normally be expected to be doing the sort of things Hamilton and Halifax are at this point, because they need to get the word out to fans and sponsors.

You're confusing your "wishes" with "facts". Stop painting what you want for facts

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

It's a fact that TFC are meeting Scott Mitchell and want to put their reserve team into the league and are happy to rebrand it.

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/01/14/tfc-was-in-position-of-strength-at-this-years-mls-draft

The club’s top brass will sit down in the coming weeks with Hamilton Ticats head honcho Scott Mitchell, who’s at the forefront of forming the CPL.

“We want to have a good, positive relationship,” Manning said. “I’m going to be open to see what they have to say.”

It’s unclear what role — if any — Canada’s three MLS clubs will play. Multiple reports have indicated CPL officials are wary of having MLS sides use the CPL as a place for their USL-affiliates to play. They don’t want it to seem minor league.

“I’m OK with (our possible CPL team) not being called TFC II, but it’s still going to be the same thing,” Manning said.

[Complete Homer]

[matty]

7 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

TFC met Victor Montagliani about the new league that doesn't have a name yet and didn't hire Paul Beirne back in September and really what would they need to do to get involved? They have players and coaches under contract, and two stadiums available and unlike most no huge need to sell lots of season tickets. It's relatively easy for ownership groups that already have teams up and running to get involved in something like this. Those that don't would normally be expected to be doing the sort of things Hamilton and Halifax are at this point, because they need to get the word out to fans and sponsors.

They finally had a meeting with him after being on the outside for almost 2 and a half years and are only now talking to a money man and bernie, who reps a group of owners that were in place in September, prior to tfc even being spoken too about this league, is still involved whether he's working with all the teams or 3 teams.

Tfc have 1 stadium that fits into what the cpl image currently is (according to the halifax guys you need north of 5k) and it's in use by two teams.

4 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It's a fact that TFC are meeting Scott Mitchell and want to put their reserve team into the league and are happy to rebrand it.

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/01/14/tfc-was-in-position-of-strength-at-this-years-mls-draft

The club’s top brass will sit down in the coming weeks with Hamilton Ticats head honcho Scott Mitchell, who’s at the forefront of forming the CPL.

“We want to have a good, positive relationship,” Manning said. “I’m going to be open to see what they have to say.”

It’s unclear what role — if any — Canada’s three MLS clubs will play. Multiple reports have indicated CPL officials are wary of having MLS sides use the CPL as a place for their USL-affiliates to play. They don’t want it to seem minor league.

“I’m OK with (our possible CPL team) not being called TFC II, but it’s still going to be the same thing,” Manning said.

The league doesn't want to be a minor league and even larson agrees the move will make the league look very minor. It seems more likely the two will work out a deal that loans players and shares resources rather than being usl canada.

[Alex D]

This thread is a train wreck and I can't look away!

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It's a fact that TFC are meeting Scott Mitchell and want to put their reserve team into the league and are happy to rebrand it.

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/01/14/tfc-was-in-position-of-strength-at-this-years-mls-draft

The club’s top brass will sit down in the coming weeks with Hamilton Ticats head honcho Scott Mitchell, who’s at the forefront of forming the CPL.

“We want to have a good, positive relationship,” Manning said. “I’m going to be open to see what they have to say.”

It’s unclear what role — if any — Canada’s three MLS clubs will play. Multiple reports have indicated CPL officials are wary of having MLS sides use the CPL as a place for their USL-affiliates to play. They don’t want it to seem minor league.

“I’m OK with (our possible CPL team) not being called TFC II, but it’s still going to be the same thing,” Manning said.

But it's not a fact that CPL are trying to find ways to make it work. Not remotely a fact. All this is, its TFC trying to hold their grip/monopoly on the GTA market while downgrading CPL at the same time by putting a reserve team.

What more do you need??? The guy himself says that calling the team TFC II or something else is the same, it clearly brands CPL as 2nd rate to TFC and the MLS. If anything, that's exactly why CPL wants nothing to do with it.

Bottom line: TFC is pitching a team to CPL. TFC is pursuing this endeavors as a way to hold their monopoly. CPL is just "aggreing" to meet them. It doesn't mean they are trying to find a middle ground. You're reading WAY too much over a meeting. How many time did Quebecor met the NHL???? I don't see the Quebec Nordiques in Quebec City...

[Complete Homer]

8 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It's a fact that TFC are meeting Scott Mitchell and want to put their reserve team into the league and are happy to rebrand it.

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/01/14/tfc-was-in-position-of-strength-at-this-years-mls-draft

The club’s top brass will sit down in the coming weeks with Hamilton Ticats head honcho Scott Mitchell, who’s at the forefront of forming the CPL.

“We want to have a good, positive relationship,” Manning said. “I’m going to be open to see what they have to say.”

It’s unclear what role — if any — Canada’s three MLS clubs will play. Multiple reports have indicated CPL officials are wary of having MLS sides use the CPL as a place for their USL-affiliates to play. They don’t want it to seem minor league.

“I’m OK with (our possible CPL team) not being called TFC II, but it’s still going to be the same thing,” Manning said.

Not to pile on - but how do you read the text you just posted and come to the conclusion that TFC and the other MLS teams are an integral part if the league? Everything in that snippet screams "outside looking in" 

Or are we still at the point where you think the league cannot attract six stable owners independently? Just trying to get where your argument has drifted 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

6 minutes ago, matty said:

Tfc have 1 stadium that fits into what the cpl image currently is (according to the halifax guys you need north of 5k) and it's in use by two teams.

The league doesn't want to be a minor league and even larson agrees the move will make the league look very minor...

On the first point they are already going to be converting it for USL to meet USSF D2 sanctioning standards, and on the second the Ticats don't want that because they are used to playing the Argos as equals and it looks like the two ownership groups are meeting to see if there is a way they can co-exist within the new league that emerges. There is no league at this point. Nothing has been sanctioned by the CSA as far as I am aware.