Mister215Guy Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Canada is better than the US in nearly everything positive so why nobody thinks CPL can easily surpass MLS? The 3 MLS clubs definitely need to join in the launch of CPL and Giovinco might get back into Italy's squad since he won't be playing in a crap league like MLS anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, Mister215Guy said: Canada is better than the US in nearly everything positive so why nobody thinks CPL can easily surpass MLS? The 3 MLS clubs definitely need to join in the launch of CPL and Giovinco might get back into Italy's squad since he won't be playing in a crap league like MLS anymore. Just go away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister215Guy Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Just now, Ansem said: Just go away Why, you don't think Toronto FC will be better off in a Canadian league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Mister215Guy said: Why, you don't think Toronto FC will be better off in a Canadian league? What was that? Oh I don't understand, I don't speak troll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Ansem said: Pretty sure that I wasn't claiming we would have MLS level attendance bUT the 7k figure being mentioned to break even/turn a profit. Still those are decent numbers for teams that aren't necessarily yours to cheer for. It shows an interest in the sport itself which is the foundation of generating interest for a local team and national league Can we see the glass haft full once in a while instead of half empty? I don't think the number I expected were bad. I thought they were good for the first few years (especially in Hamilton, Winnipeg and Calgary). @Mister215Guy I'm sick of your anti-MLS talk. Start talking about how the CPL will be better than the Chinese Super League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Ansem said: There's 1.6M people within 3 hour drive of Moncton, not counting Halifax or Quebec nearby cities. What? You have mentioned this stat before but this was the first time you excluded Halifax. I have never been to the maritimes but the population of New Brunswick plus Nova Scotia is about 1.6 million. Take away Halifax and you are left with about 1.2 to 1.3 million. Even if you can get to every town in both provinces from Moncton in 3 hours (I have no idea if you can), where are the extra 300 to 400 thousand people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 PEI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I just was reading about the Missouri Governor not wanting to put public money towards an MLS stadium and feel we'd see similar happen here if the CPL came along and wanted a stadium in any number of mid tier Canadian markets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Kent said: What? You have mentioned this stat before but this was the first time you excluded Halifax. I have never been to the maritimes but the population of New Brunswick plus Nova Scotia is about 1.6 million. Take away Halifax and you are left with about 1.2 to 1.3 million. Even if you can get to every town in both provinces from Moncton in 3 hours (I have no idea if you can), where are the extra 300 to 400 thousand people? My bad. Bad autocorrect. Meant to be counting Halifax and not Quebec cities. Any chance people from Maine whow visit regularly the Maritimes jump in the bandwagon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, matty said: I just was reading about the Missouri Governor not wanting to put public money towards an MLS stadium and feel we'd see similar happen here if the CPL came along and wanted a stadium in any number of mid tier Canadian markets Good. These funds are usually taken from things like education and infrastructure. Or they put a tax in place to fund essentially a billionaires play thing. You can read about the results of publicly funded stadiums pretty easily online, it's the biggest scam sports teams get away with in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ansem said: My bad. Bad autocorrect. Meant to be counting Halifax and not Quebec cities. Any chance people from Maine whow visit regularly the Maritimes jump in the bandwagon? I don't think I understand what you're getting at with the Moncton numbers you keep mentioning. Are you suggesting that a Moncton team will be able to consistently attract people from as far as 3 hours away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 13 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said: Good. These funds are usually taken from things like education and infrastructure. Or they put a tax in place to fund essentially a billionaires play thing. You can read about the results of publicly funded stadiums pretty easily online, it's the biggest scam sports teams get away with in the US. 100% agree. They cost hundreds of millions and do little for most cities. I think people need to look at that fact and realize we're not going to see 15 15-20k soccer stadiums that cost 100m pop up across canada. Instead i think we'll a handful of cheap (10-20m) 5k seater minibmos pop up if expansion is as massive as many hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, matty said: 100% agree. They cost hundreds of millions and do little for most cities. I think people need to look at that fact and realize we're not going to see 15 15-20k soccer stadiums that coast 100m pop up accross canada. Instead i think we'll a handful of cheap (10-20m) 5k seater minibmos pop up if expansion is as massive as many hope. How much did the impact stadium cost to build before its expansion for MLS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Just looked it up. The first phase of Saputo stadium cost 17 million for a 13k capacity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauder01 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 4 hours ago, Mister215Guy said: Canada is better than the US in nearly everything positive so why nobody thinks CPL can easily surpass MLS? The 3 MLS clubs definitely need to join in the launch of CPL and Giovinco might get back into Italy's squad since he won't be playing in a crap league like MLS anymore. Are yooooou Totera? Are yooooou Totera? Are you Totera in disguise?! Are you Totera in disguise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 20 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said: Just looked it up. The first phase of Saputo stadium cost 17 million for a 13k capacity So about 20m today. While not bad I don't see a lot of cities or investors in said cities wanting to spend that much off the bat. What seems more likely for a city like Halifax or Saskatoon is maybe an 8-10m stadium that seats 6-7k that can be expanded in the future if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauder01 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 For the record, here are the Hamilton attendance numbers for PANAM group stages: Avg Mens Attendance: 10,760 Avg Womens Attendance: 8,838 CanMU23 Avg Attendance: 14,095 CanWU23 Avg Attendance: 15,527 Avg Attendance for the Tournament was 11,056 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 15 minutes ago, marauder01 said: For the record, here are the Hamilton attendance numbers for PANAM group stages: Avg Mens Attendance: 10,760 Avg Womens Attendance: 8,838 CanMU23 Avg Attendance: 14,095 CanWU23 Avg Attendance: 15,527 Avg Attendance for the Tournament was 11,056 not bad (similar to what i expected). just wondering you're source (haven't been able to find numbers listed anywhere official or credible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauder01 Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 minute ago, matty said: not bad (similar to what i expected). just wondering you're source (haven't been able to find numbers listed anywhere official or credible) I emailed CONCACAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Just now, marauder01 said: I emailed CONCACAF Cool. I figured the numbers would be around 10-13k on average. it's annoying there are no public numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 1 hour ago, lazlo_80 said: I don't think I understand what you're getting at with the Moncton numbers you keep mentioning. Are you suggesting that a Moncton team will be able to consistently attract people from as far as 3 hours away? Saying it's reasonable to assume that they could have the 7k attendance average that was mentioned to break even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 49 minutes ago, matty said: So about 20m today. While not bad I don't see a lot of cities or investors in said cities wanting to spend that much off the bat. What seems more likely for a city like Halifax or Saskatoon is maybe an 8-10m stadium that seats 6-7k that can be expanded in the future if need be. The real answer is that we actually don't know how much said investors is willing to invest. It's their money so let's stop managing their wealth for them They want to invest? Good. They don't want to, then too bad. Those inquiring about CPL knows there's a cost attached by renting an existing stadium, or upgrading an existing stadium or building from scratch which will weight heavily on the municipal appetite for spending public funds on said municipal infrastructure. Also, the 2026 WC could also be a factor here. If the CSA is using that to get people interested, why would a potential investor build from scratch when there's a possibility that public funds could get stadiums builthe if we host/co-host? That's why I always thought cities with existing stadiums would be the 1st to join CPL. 2020, which is when 2025 gets decided will bring more answers to our questions. 2026 WC to Canada=Fast growth as more stadiums due to the expanded WC would need to be built, which would be heavily subsided. Also, 6 years of soccer being mainstream in Canada is hard for investors not to capitalize on. Co-hosting= Medium Growth. Less new stadiums required but the anticipation would be high enough to attract investors No WC= slower growth....growth nonetheless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 46 minutes ago, dsqpr said: I wish you were right Ansem but I was there for all matches in Winnipeg. I think a lot of US fans bought packages, as they went on sale earlier, and just didn't show up for the non-US games (those attendance numbers are obviously tickets sold). China had a nice group in one section behind the goal but it was definitely much less than half full on the days when the US did not play. And I seem to recall it being very sparse for the Germany vs. Thailand game. And when the US did play it was packed and very pro-US - a real home match for them. I remember it well because it was pissing me off and I was cheering obnoxiously for whomever they were playing and getting some very dirty looks! But, honestly, I'm not sure the WWC numbers can be used to predict possible CPL numbers. I think they are different beasts. Let's just shut down this thread right now. CPL will barely attract 4k average attendance and fold. Why would Canadians watch it when MLS, is there? Pff...CPL...might as well put all our cards in USL because Canadians will just not care about a Canadian league. Canadians know that if nothing related to the US is involved it's a failure waiting to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 One of the key problems with Canadian soccer is that very few people ever seem to want to remember what happened more than about five years ago. The Edmonton Aviators were launched in 2003 after the investors got dollar signs before their eyes cartoon style over the crowds at Commonwealth Stadium for the U-20 Women's World Cup. They folded after one season after the league had to step in to get the team through to the end of the season after the anticipated crowds of 11,000 per game failed to materialize: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmonton_Aviators Moral of the story? For D2 level soccer in a smaller Canadian market, you should not be expecting more than 2000 paid on average in year one. Having owners involved that are expecting a lot more than that is a recipe for disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: One of the key problems with Canadian soccer is that very few people ever seem to want to remember what happened more than about five years ago. The Edmonton Aviators were launched in 2003 after the investors got dollar signs before their eyes cartoon style over the crowds at Commonwealth Stadium for the U-20 Women's World Cup. They folded after one season after the league had to step in to get the team through to the end of the season after the anticipated crowds of 11,000 per game failed to materialize: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmonton_Aviators Moral of the story? For D2 level soccer in a smaller Canadian market, you should not be expecting more than 2000 paid on average in year one. Having owners involved that are expecting a lot more than that is a recipe for disaster. Because 'clearly' nothing has changed in the past 15 years. I agree with keeping expectations for attendance modest in early days, nowhere near 11000, but any estimations based off of a long dead franchise is just looking for a reason to be pessimistic, especially with the way we have seen north American soccer undergo a seismic shift in that time. Might as well talk about why MLS is one bad year away from folding What is needed, what has always been needed, is a group of owners willing to sink the time and money into properly market the teams/league, present a professional and polished product, and play opponents that fans actually care about. Much like the Bob Young model for reviving the TiCats. Finding six, eight, twelve owners like that isn't easy, but everything that Montagliani has been saying points to careful vetting of owners. If this were being run like the Aviators (or the NASL), all "12+" interested groups would be handed franchises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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