Nana and Dunfield traded!!!

[El Hombre]

^ +1. Great post Free Kick.

No Canadian should be gifted a spot on a roster, but they should be given a fair chance to win that spot. I believe Winter's done that with his Canadian content, unlike some of his predecessors.

Starting should also not be a birth right. These players need to be challenged just like any other but they should also be given the opportunity to succeed. I think Winter's giving these players that. I think that even if we have a couple Canadians coming off the bench for games, that is a better situation than we were in 5 years ago, particularly with young kids like Henry, Cordon and Stinson. Not every Canadian has to be a starter.

And this is why I don't understand this trade from Vancouver's point of view. For all the deficiencies in his game that people here have posted in this thread, you'll have a hard time convincing me that he isn't fantastic injury cover or one of the better options off the bench, particularly at $65K/year. I do not like the direction that that club is going. Not only were they the first to not start a Canadian, but a couple times this year they didn't even have one on the bench. I think that's a damn shame. (also, if Alain Rochat self-identifies as Swiss, please don't try to convince me that he's Canadian)

[Keegan]

Winter has been pretty fair with his Canadian content, can't complain BUT one thing I question is why was Henry dropped from the XI?

[youllneverwalkalone]

Well, I wasn't going to do this because I thought it was sort of like snitching or not respecting confidentiality or something, but fvck it. This statement was posted on the Southsiders board yesterday by someone named BT Morgan:

"All this ********** hate is pretty pathetic. The guy made a decision at the age of 19 that led to him playing on the world's biggest stage and some of you still want to crucify him for it years later? At the end of the day he probably did more to grow the sport in Canada by playing at the level he did for England than he would have actually playing on Canada's national team."

This was a quote regarding the whore who shall not be named signing with VWFC. I bring this up to hopefully shock the FCE and TFC supporters arguing here into seeing how horrible the situation is in Vancouver. Alan Errington had a great tweet about the Dunfield trade, saying something to the effect that after 10 years of the BCSA working with the Caps we have exactly zero BC players on our squad.

I want to say one thing to James (and if you want to read this as a thinly veiled apology to Duane Rollins and Califax and some others who I've argued with at the beginning of the season, so be it): There is a huge jump from NASL to MLS. It may not have been so vast in the days of the old USL and the old 14 team MLS, but it is now.

TFC have 33.3% of their squad as Canadian. That is pretty damn good all things considered. Things are all roses and cherries for FCE now, but wait till things don't go your way and see how the knives will start to come out for some of your players. Winter has done a good job keeping the Canadian content at a reasonable high level. James should turn his efforts on VWFC. Because things are dire out here. I'm sensing we don't even have Canadians in the stands based on some of the comments on the Southsiders board and the fact that nobody over there seems to give even one toss that we are down to two Canadians out of 30.

[Free kick]

Winter has been pretty fair with his Canadian content, can't complain BUT one thing I question is why was Henry dropped from the XI?

He had a brutal game in Salt Lake city. I missed that one but just saw the highlights and you can clearly see (from highlights) Henry as a poster boy for ball watching in that game. He still really shows immense promise but needs to be brought along more slowly IMO. I think he will be eligible for the next U20, that's how young he is.

[youllneverwalkalone]

And this is why I don't understand this trade from Vancouver's point of view. For all the deficiencies in his game that people here have posted in this thread, you'll have a hard time convincing me that he isn't fantastic injury cover or one of the better options off the bench, particularly at $65K/year. I do not like the direction that that club is going. Not only were they the first to not start a Canadian, but a couple times this year they didn't even have one on the bench. I think that's a damn shame. (also, if Alain Rochat self-identifies as Swiss, please don't try to convince me that he's Canadian)

We are hearing it's Aleman coming back fwiw. I agree with your post, except that there is more to the story than just the face value we know. Remember that TD grew up with Joey Barton, and I'm afraid he's picked up a thing or two from him. There was one moment when he tore a strip out of Salgado, very unnecessarily in front of 20,000 people.

My justification is a little at odds with my last post, I know, but there's more going on here than passports, ability, and salary.

[RS]

Winter has been pretty fair with his Canadian content, can't complain BUT one thing I question is why was Henry dropped from the XI?

As Free Kick stated, he had a howler against RSL (and looked out of sorts in the previous game, as well).

I've got all the time in the world for Doneil Henry, I think he's going to be a fantastic CB for years to come. The worst thing Winter could have done is kept throwing him to the wolves alongside Ty Harden. He needs a good CB partner to mentor him and bring him along (in the way that Serioux and Cann have done for Attakora).

Pulling Henry from the horror show that is/was TFC's current backline is the best thing Winter could have done for the kid. He doesn't need his confidence broken this early.

[BearcatSA]

He needs a good CB partner to mentor him and bring him along (in the way that Serioux and Cann have done for Attakora).

To me, I think Serioux was a guy still learning the positional feel for CB (most of his pro career was as a mid) and he himself could have used a more experienced CB partner to work with. Cann proved to be a better complementary partner for Attakora last year.

[TFC07]

We are hearing it's Aleman coming back fwiw. I agree with your post, except that there is more to the story than just the face value we know. Remember that TD grew up with Joey Barton, and I'm afraid he's picked up a thing or two from him. There was one moment when he tore a strip out of Salgado, very unnecessarily in front of 20,000 people.

My justification is a little at odds with my last post, I know, but there's more going on here than passports, ability, and salary.

Aleman is a headcase too! But still, where's the source about Aleman going to Vancouver or better yet, what is Aleman doing right now? Still looking for a club?

[Guest Ed]

Yeah, you got me there. The system can beat a 10 man, second tier side playing the 4th game in their history. I wish we could play again now, I'm betting the result might be different. At least we have a Canadian team on the field. And we win the odd game. You guys can barely get a shot off over 90 minutes fielding a bunch of foreigners.

Well done James. Ripped the 'Rip Off' a new one.

[youllneverwalkalone]

^Duane Rollins tweet. Lenarduzzi also said the Caps have their eye on a young TFC player. Maybe he still has trials in Europe before returning to MLS.

[RS]

To me, I think Serioux was a guy still learning the positional feel for CB (most of his pro career was as a mid) and he himself could have used a more experienced CB partner to work with. Cann proved to be a better complementary partner for Attakora last year.

I agree, but my point was that Attakora didn't have a backup-calibre player like Ty Harden next to him while he was learning the ropes.

[BearcatSA]

^Understood and agreed.

[Gian-Luca]

Starting should also not be a birth right. These players need to be challenged just like any other but they should also be given the opportunity to succeed. I think Winter's giving these players that. I think that even if we have a couple Canadians coming off the bench for games, that is a better situation than we were in 5 years ago, particularly with young kids like Henry, Cordon and Stinson. Not every Canadian has to be a starter.

And this is why I don't understand this trade from Vancouver's point of view. For all the deficiencies in his game that people here have posted in this thread, you'll have a hard time convincing me that he isn't fantastic injury cover or one of the better options off the bench, particularly at $65K/year. I do not like the direction that that club is going. Not only were they the first to not start a Canadian, but a couple times this year they didn't even have one on the bench. I think that's a damn shame. (also, if Alain Rochat self-identifies as Swiss, please don't try to convince me that he's Canadian)

Agreed. It seems awfully strange to me that the day of and the day after Vancouver trades away their only regular Canadian starter to TFC, that it is TFC once again taking all the abuse for not fielding or having Canadian players.

FWIW, TFC's Canadian totals would have been much higher this year had (a) one of the Canucks not asked for a trade and ( a whole wack of other Canadians (including all of the ones with any sort of experience) not spent significant time injured this season. I think Stinson, Cordon & Henry are the only three to not actually be on the injury shelf for a significant period of time, whereas at least two have had season-ending injuries (one of whom got his before the year even started).

By comparison Vancouver is, from what I understand, down to the absolute minimum number of "Canadians", one of which hasn't played the whole year (Davies) and one of which isn't actually Canadian. They've pretty much gotten a free ride on these boards in comparison to what TFC has gottenand continues to get in terms of criticism. I hope their Canadian-content situation changes soon.

[Gian-Luca]

We are hearing it's Aleman coming back fwiw.

From a TFC fan perspective that would annoy me, but from getting some Canucks in Vancouver perspective, that would be good news.

[Keegan]

From a TFC fan perspective that would annoy me, but from getting some Canucks in Vancouver perspective, that would be good news.

Well it was either that or hold onto his rights out of spite... or trade his rights to MTL once they enter the league. From a Canadian perspective Aleman, Alderson and Teibert at the same organization can only be good.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

Yeah, you got me there. The system can beat a 10 man, second tier side playing the 4th game in their history. I wish we could play again now, I'm betting the result might be different. At least we have a Canadian team on the field. And we win the odd game. You guys can barely get a shot off over 90 minutes fielding a bunch of foreigners.

Sorry forgot to mention that it was two wins for Toronto. Yes you win, but as you have also stated, you play second tier. Too bad there isn't promotion and relegation so that FCE could be even more **** than TFC and VWFC in MLS or if relegated Toronto could continue to breeze by FCE playing in the NASL.

[Ivan]

Well it was either that or hold onto his rights out of spite... or trade his rights to MTL once they enter the league. From a Canadian perspective Aleman, Alderson and Teibert at the same organization can only be good.

True, but the fact that the 3 of them are Ontario boys, and two of the three began in the TFC organization is a bit frustrating from a TFC fans' perspective.

[TFC07]

True, but the fact that the 3 of them are Ontario boys, and two of the three began in the TFC organization is a bit frustrating from a TFC fans' perspective.

But now, Vancouver no longer can get Ontario kids on their academy teams. Toronto has Ontario MLS regional rights which is bad news for Vancouver, Ontario and Canadian soccer in general. More options, the better for us and kids who try to make it in professional soccer.

[James]

Vancouver is horrible too. And in many respects worse, of late. Lenarduzzi has conveniently forgot where he came from and how he got his start and why he still has a career. I rip TFC and their fans because this garbage has been happening there for 5 years and is only getting worse.

I wanna throw Montreal on the flames too.

I hope Ottawa is watching because it doesn't take much to see what works and what doesn't with regards to Canadian players.

[James]

Pretty soon , the academy teams that you guys cling to for canadian content aren't going to have much left in them anyway. As a young player, where are you gonna go? TFC? Vancouver? I doubt it. They'll be calling up Edmonton and hopefully Ottawa.

[James]

I agree, but my point was that Attakora didn't have a backup-calibre player like Ty Harden next to him while he was learning the ropes.

Ty Hardin wouldn't make the bench on most NASL teams. You keep calling him a backup player. He's a minutes leader at TFC... over 1000 minutes played. What exactly constitutes a starter over there? I don't care if he started by filling in for an injured player, he's been a starter for most of the season now and it obviously isn't working.

[Free kick]

we have exactly zero BC players on our squad.

I want to say one thing to James (and if you want to read this as a thinly veiled apology to Duane Rollins and Califax and

some others who I've argued with at the beginning of the season, so be it): There is a huge jump from NASL to MLS. It may not have been so vast in the days of the old USL and the old 14 team MLS, but it is now.

TFC have 33.3% of their squad as Canadian. That is pretty damn good all things considered. Things are all roses and

cherries for FCE now, but wait till things don't go your way and see how the knives will start to come out for some of your

players. Winter has done a good job keeping the Canadian content at a reasonable high level. James should turn his efforts on VWFC. Because things are dire out here. I'm sensing we don't even have Canadians in the stands based on some of the comments on the Southsiders board and the fact that nobody over there seems to give even one toss that we are down to

two Canadians out of 30.

This post is worth repeating. Yes, it's is huge step. This is a professional league and we in Canada have not had the vehicle to turn amateurs into professional players until the academies came along.

Honestly, I cannot think of a single canadian who was available to TFC and has passed through TFC who can say that they weren't given a shot. Not one has gone one to greater heights after leaving TFC. The closest might be Ali Gerba who has done well in NASL and NT but quite honestly did not produce in half dozen to dozen games that he played for TFC. Others like Gala were given three or four years to prove themselves. I also am aware through the grapevine of quite few that were indeed given trials . So what more can we possibly expect?

You can't just play anybody because he is canadian. You also have to win. The propaganda about TFC stiffing canadians is total cap and that applies even to the time that Mo Johnson was around. My sense, through personal experience, was that there was no bias by Mo against canadians but that eventually, he realized that in Canada, when it comes to professionals who a can play and make difference at this level, cupboard was bare when you compare to the pool in the US.

[James]

I want to say one thing to James (and if you want to read this as a thinly veiled apology to Duane Rollins and Califax and some others who I've argued with at the beginning of the season, so be it): There is a huge jump from NASL to MLS. It may not have been so vast in the days of the old USL and the old 14 team MLS, but it is now.

TFC have 33.3% of their squad as Canadian. That is pretty damn good all things considered. Things are all roses and cherries for FCE now, but wait till things don't go your way and see how the knives will start to come out for some of your players. Winter has done a good job keeping the Canadian content at a reasonable high level. James should turn his efforts on VWFC. Because things are dire out here. I'm sensing we don't even have Canadians in the stands based on some of the comments on the Southsiders board and the fact that nobody over there seems to give even one toss that we are down to two Canadians out of 30.

[Free kick]

Pretty soon , the academy teams that you guys cling to for canadian content aren't going to have much left in them anyway. As a young player, where are you gonna go? TFC? Vancouver? I doubt it. They'll be calling up Edmonton and hopefully Ottawa.

The academy is not going away. They recently invested 20 million into it. Surely you don't expect all of them to make the senior team. So far about five have signed senior team contracts this year and have had professional playing minutes. What more do you what?

Of course not all of them will succeed. That's how it works. By the way, the player traded to San Jose, Attakora, was Developed by TfC. Where would he have been had TFC stiffed canadians?

[Free kick]

Are you telling me there aren't half a dozen players in the NASL that could crack TFC? Come on, be serious. I could hand pick half a dozen from FCE alone who could earn quality minutes in the MLS

Get off the gap, it's a puddle jump for the best players in the NASL.

How about we wait and see after a full year in the NASL. FCE is barely at the midpoint of their first year and yes, they are sitting in second place. That's great and we are all happy for them. But let's not start thinking at this point that we are talking about

the Barcelona Youth system here just yet. I have been following MLS and USL for over

ten years now and I can you for a fact, that a lot things can change in the second half of any season. If the trend continues then I am sure that some Players will get a shot..

The Lynx also had something like 80-100 percent Canadian player. A handful of them through the years moved up (eg Dero and Serioux). The others did not. It no different from the other MLS teams in the league, some have picked up a few USL over he years

other have not. 18 MLS clubs cant all be wrong when it comes to properly assessing the value of USL/NASL players.