Nana and Dunfield traded!!!

[James]

The academy is not going away. They recently invested 20 million into it. Surely you don't expect all of them to make the senior team. So far about five have signed senior team contracts this year and have had professional playing minutes. What more do you what?

Of course not all of them will succeed. That's how it works. By the way, the player traded to San Jose, Attakora, was Developed by TfC. Where would he have been had TFC stiffed canadians?

No doubt, they helped Nana develop... But outside of New England, is there a worse team than TFC(or the Whitecaps)? There should be some Canadian content getting minutes on the pitch at these two clubs. Nana should have been playing. I won't go into a giant list for naysayers to nit-pick but suffice to say, there are a good dozen players who should be getting minutes in Van and TFC, who aren't. Montreal too. It's a joke.

[youllneverwalkalone]

A huge jump from Edmonton to Toronto? Really? From Carolina to New England? Honestly? How can anyone say that with a straight face? Puerto Rico has regularily beaten MLS teams, including Toronto and even the LA Galaxy! The gap ain't that big... But , hey whatever works for you. There's no doubt, the MLS is a better league but that "gap" thats getting thrown around to justify not having Canadian players on the field isn't very big at all. Are you telling me there aren't half a dozen players in the NASL that could crack TFC? Come on, be serious. I could hand pick half a dozen from FCE alone who could earn quality minutes in the MLS

Get off the gap, it's a puddle jump for the best players in the NASL.

I'm happy that FCE has found success in the table. I think it's great that they are giving minutes to young Canadians. But you are deluding yourself here. Been there, done that.

You also come off as really cocky. I don't really understand this? The odds of the NASL surviving the next 5 years are slim at best. All the stable clubs of the old USL are gone. FCE plays in a monstrosity of a "stadium" that makes Swangard, Claude Robiallard or Centennial look like modern day, first division football stadia by comparison. Every other professional soccer club from Edmonton has folded. Yet here you are -when the entire board is giving your club credit, not saying the things I've just said (even though we're all thinking them in the back of our minds) flashing your club around like it was ****ing Barcelona. Are you ok?

Was I this annoying a year ago? TFC fans: I'm hoping to be in TO this fall for a wedding, sign up and punch me in the face if it's true. **** me.

[Grizzly]

Was I this annoying a year ago? TFC fans: I'm hoping to be in TO this fall for a wedding, sign up and punch me in the face if it's true. **** me.

Does that offer apply to Impact fans too?

Sorry that was too obvious to resist!

Re: James. Just what this board was lacking until now, an FCE trash talker!!! I do think some of his points are valid but also mixed in with a fair bit of inaccuracy and the trash talking doesn't help his cause.

I agree that the gap between the leagues is not as big as some claim. It is certainly not as big as between most 1st and 2nd divisions. There is a pretty big gap if one takes the perfect starting 11 of a good MLS team and compares it to a NASL team but as we know teams can rarely field their best 11 and MLS has major depth problems. I think the league has improved somewhat by raising the minimum wage to a level similar to typical NASL salary but it still needs to increase the minimum further to improve more. The problem with MLS is that there are some good players who are well above NASL standard but they are surrounded by too many mediocre players who are not superior to NASL standard. When I watch MLS games I can never say I am that impressed by the level of play. The problem when NASL players transfer to MLS though is that most of these NASL players are the same kind of mediocre depth players that MLS is full off so they never look that impressive. Some of the younger NASL players could be improvements or at least have a lot of potential for MLS but are often reluctant to transfer to MLS because the MLS transfer rules. The transfer rules are the other factor that hinders the league being better in addition to the low minimum salaries. If you are a young player with an opportunity to sign in Europe being on an MLS contract can really hinder this because they are not very easy to deal with or very accomodating to players desiring transfers. And within the MLS they allow teams to release players yet still hold their MLS rights. Add in the low salary and it is understandable why young players with some options are reluctant to sign with MLS teams.

The thing that bothers many posters here is the really poor level of some of the foreign players on both Canadian teams. The fact that the Canadian quota was relaxed almost to the point of being eliminated allowed the teams to be very lazy in selecting depth players particularly from the US. The US has a big pool of mediocre players and it is easy to find some that will play for $40 000. However, while there may not be tons of great Canadian players out there, there definitely seem to be some who would be an improvement on some of these poor American players playing for minimum wage. It is hard to justify the drop of the quota when both teams have been so poor.

However, the biggest issue with our teams so far is poor management and coaching. TFC has been a bit better under Winter in playing Canadians than in the past but I do think that one could say that TFC did do Canadian players a disservice in the past by having so many of them playing with such poor managers and coaches. Whether Winter is an improvement remains to be seen, so far I can not say I am overly impressed but it is probably too early to judge. The developments in Vancouver may also be too early to judge but early indicators seem to be not very positive as far as developing Canadian players and producing a decent team in the near future. Montreal has been a complete disaster on both fronts this year and Joey seems determined to produce a 2nd Mo Johnston with his reliance on NDS. At the moment the only team that seems well managed/coached at any level is FCE and I don't think one can really minimize this by saying this is a 2nd division team. They are also an expansion team in a league that whatever problems it has, has improved its playing level quite a bit and is not easy to succeed in. Montreal with its high budget and expensive foreigners is not even competitive this year. TFC after 5 years should be way better than it is now and while it is the Caps first year in MLS, I think the jump is a far easier job after years of running a team than forming an expansion team from scratch.

The summary of the matter is not that TFC and the Caps are bad because it is so hard to form a good MLS team. They are bad because they went about things incompetently and now Saputo seems determined to follow suit. Hire good management and Canadian teams will be able to both have an adequate number of Canadians on the field and also win in the league.

[Gian-Luca]

There's a humourous quote from new TFC DP Koevermans reacting to the trades in this article (which also reveals that two of Frings Canadian teammates will be able to converse with him in German):

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/marquee-men-settling-toronto-fc-looking-debut-against-220632428.html

[youllneverwalkalone]

Grizzly, I will be in Montreal in 2012.

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

As for the SOuthsiders not caring about Canadian content right now, its true.

But it's cause we want to get a winning program here and develop a structure to the team, no one expects any of our teams to try and build a spine of a team with canadians yet.

I think the best thing to do is concentrate on getting them winning, then you can supplement with Canadians to fill the holes and give them a chance to develop, we are in no spot to develop yet, cause anyone with quality is gonna be leaned on heavily right now and you'll just destroy young players doing that to them to early without any supporting cast or team philosophy to lean on.

There will be a time to try and fill the team with a good number of domestic players, but right now there is none that are lining up to play for us, that are quality enough to step in and make a difference, I don't think you have canadian's just to point at them and say they are there.

After thinking about some of my own comments about rather having Canadian kids in the spots that we have what are useless foreigners maybe that's not a bad approach, probably better off for the CMNT that we don't sit Canadian kids with potential to rot away on our bench in a turmoil filled expansion season. I wanna give the boys upstairs the benefit of the doubt and that they didn't want to expose a whole boatload of canadians to this steep learning curve that everyone is in the middle of. Let those players come in when at least the staff has figured out what they want to do and how they are gonna do it.

[finchster]

As for the SOuthsiders not caring about Canadian content right now, its true.

But it's cause we want to get a winning program here and develop a structure to the team, no one expects any of our teams to try and build a spine of a team with canadians yet.

I think the best thing to do is concentrate on getting them winning, then you can supplement with Canadians to fill the holes and give them a chance to develop, we are in no spot to develop yet, cause anyone with quality is gonna be leaned on heavily right now and you'll just destroy young players doing that to them to early without any supporting cast or team philosophy to lean on.

There will be a time to try and fill the team with a good number of domestic players, but right now there is none that are lining up to play for us, that are quality enough to step in and make a difference, I don't think you have canadian's just to point at them and say they are there.

After thinking about some of my own comments about rather having Canadian kids in the spots that we have what are useless foreigners maybe that's not a bad approach, probably better off for the CMNT that we don't sit Canadian kids with potential to rot away on our bench in a turmoil filled expansion season. I wanna give the boys upstairs the benefit of the doubt and that they didn't want to expose a whole boatload of canadians to this steep learning curve that everyone is in the middle of. Let those players come in when at least the staff has figured out what they want to do and how they are gonna do it.

Honestly that sounds like excuses. The Whitecaps wanted the lower domestic quota yet they are still the worst team in the league. It wouldn’t be easy to find good Canadian talent but the Caps haven’t made it a priority or bothered to look.

I don’t really understand your logic, when the caps are good they will start putting more Canadians on the roster? If Canada doesn’t have enough talent we don’t have enough talent and adding more Canadians to a good roster will make it a weaker one. The answer is to build a good team and make it progressively worse? I the caps suck this year and I would have preferred them suck with some domestics and perhaps find a few diamonds in the rough.

I think the CSA should push for a higher quota, barring that I would like to see the CSA push for something similar that the Russian Ice hockey federation did. Right now the Canadian keeper pool is so thin and this was also an issue for Russian ice hockey. They mandated their teams in lower leagues had to use all Russian goalkeepers and KHL teams had to play Russian goalkeepers for 35% of their games. I don’t see any reason why MLS clubs couldn’t carry 3 Canadian players and one Canadian international goalkeeper on their roster. The second keeper doesn’t play that much any way and it would keep guys like Josh Wagenaar and David Monslave in a job.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

....and it would keep guys like Josh Wagenaar and David Monslave in a job.

Perhaps worth bearing in mind that both of those players turned their backs on TFC contract offers to chase the European dream. I don't see any reason why MLS should suddenly be expected to give them employment when that career move doesn't work out due to lack of ability. If there needs to be a quota and there probably does just for the sake of optics because of the problems with the US legal system that block reciprocity on domestic status, it should be directed primarily at ensuring Canadian players get the lion's share of the ten additional development roster spots beyond the 18 to 20 man senior roster, in my opinion. What happens after that is something that should be earned based on genuine merit so no sense of entitlement issues creep into the equation.

[TFC07]

Dunfield seems happy to come to Toronto and even admits that Toronto is a better team than Vancouver.

Video link: http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=2&id=3415

[ThiKu]

TFC is a better team. No news story there.

[Richard]

MLS and it's member clubs are businesses first and foremost, the business involves entertaining ticket buyers with the best soccer they can deliver. I don't think placing restrictions on their hiring practises by enforcing personnel quotas of any kind on them is right. We don't do it with other businesses so why in soccer?

[canucklefan]

MLS and it's member clubs are businesses first and foremost, the business involves entertaining ticket buyers with the best soccer they can deliver. I don't think placing restrictions on their hiring practises by enforcing personnel quotas of any kind on them is right. We don't do it with other businesses so why in soccer?

But this is not business, or if you are so convinced that football is business, think about the national associations as businesses. There's a quota in many other countries. Chile for example have a quota of 6 foreign players per club, compare that with our quota of 3 Canadian players. Our quota is joke and the CSA will never get stronger (get "its business better/stronger") with this kind of policy.

[James]

MLS and it's member clubs are businesses first and foremost, the business involves entertaining ticket buyers with the best soccer they can deliver. I don't think placing restrictions on their hiring practises by enforcing personnel quotas of any kind on them is right. We don't do it with other businesses so why in soccer?

Find me a top flight club in any country, where having homegrown players isn't a concern. Do you think, Arsenal and Chelsea don't have fans and media on them for the lack of English players at a given time? Go to Spain, Germany, Italy... It matters to have home grown players in the side. It always has mattered and always will.

[James]

Find me a top flight club in any country, where having homegrown players isn't a concern. Do you think, Arsenal and Chelsea don't have fans and media on them for the lack of English players at a given time? Go to Spain, Germany, Italy... It matters to have home grown players in the side. It always has mattered and always will.

If we need quotas, so be it. TFC and Vancouver seem to need a slap upside their heads, I say give it to them. (sorry, Montreal too)

[youllneverwalkalone]

MLS and it's member clubs are businesses first and foremost, the business involves entertaining ticket buyers with the best soccer they can deliver. I don't think placing restrictions on their hiring practises by enforcing personnel quotas of any kind on them is right. We don't do it with other businesses so why in soccer?

Sorry Richard, this is false. You well know that the raison dètre of MLS is to develop players for the US MNT. It`s not coincidence that the rise of a non-Canadian MLS led to the US surpassing us in international soccer. So now Canadians, who will make up 15% of the league, have paid in well more than this in expansion fees. If you want to make this argument, you need to extend it to its logical conclusion: no quotas whatsoever. That is, we should be able to sign as many international players as we wish. Otherwise, you get what we have at VWFC, another developmental squad for the USMNT.

If MLS is a developmental league -which it clearly is given the rules- the Canadian clubs should not be subsidizing the development of US players. Canadian companies cannot simply hire any foreigner they want. You know that. They can hire foreigners when a domestic cannot do the same job. But why Americans should be given a preferential advantage over Brazilians, is not fair. Who is better to do the job of a soccer player. A Brazilian or an American. Clearly that`s no contest. So why are we taking away Canadian jobs in favour of Americans. It`s a tragedy.

At the end of the day, it`s because we don`t have the balls to stand up to MLS. This, I would think, you would support with a ``Money talks`` world view.

[jpg75]

MLS and it's member clubs are businesses first and foremost, the business involves entertaining ticket buyers with the best soccer they can deliver. I don't think placing restrictions on their hiring practises by enforcing personnel quotas of any kind on them is right. We don't do it with other businesses so why in soccer?

I doubt replacing Canadians with the stiffs the Whitecaps put out there on the field is doing much in terms of entertaining public or delivering better soccer.

The US gov't seems to disagree with restricting hiring of foreign workers, both temporary and permanent:

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/elg/tnw.htm

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/elg/pewbi.htm

USCIS regulations require that employers who file H-2B petitions with USCIS (except for temporary employment on Guam) must include a certification from the Department of Labor stating that qualified workers are not available in the U.S. and that the foreign worker’s employment will not adversely affect wages and working conditions of similarly employed U.S. workers.

and

A permanent labor certification issued by the Department of Labor (DOL) is most often the first step in allowing an employer to hire a foreign worker to work permanently in the United States. In most instances, before the U.S. employer can submit a petition to the Department of Homeland Security’s U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) seeking to hire a foreign worker as an immigrant, the employer must obtain an approved labor certification from the ETA. The Department of Labor must certify to USCIS that there are no U.S. workers able, willing, qualified, and available to accept the job and that employment of the alien will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of similarly employed U.S. workers.

Same goes for Canada:

Canada’s Temporary Foreign Worker Program helps address temporary labour shortages by allowing employers to hire foreign workers when sufficient numbers of Canadian workers are not readily available.

[nolando]

Sorry Richard, this is false. You well know that the raison dètre of MLS is to develop players for the US MNT. It`s not coincidence that the rise of a non-Canadian MLS led to the US surpassing us in international soccer. So now Canadians, who will make up 15% of the league, have paid in well more than this in expansion fees. If you want to make this argument, you need to extend it to its logical conclusion: no quotas whatsoever. That is, we should be able to sign as many international players as we wish. Otherwise, you get what we have at VWFC, another developmental squad for the USMNT.

If MLS is a developmental league -which it clearly is given the rules- the Canadian clubs should not be subsidizing the development of US players. Canadian companies cannot simply hire any foreigner they want. You know that. They can hire foreigners when a domestic cannot do the same job. But why Americans should be given a preferential advantage over Brazilians, is not fair. Who is better to do the job of a soccer player. A Brazilian or an American. Clearly that`s no contest. So why are we taking away Canadian jobs in favour of Americans. It`s a tragedy.

At the end of the day, it`s because we don`t have the balls to stand up to MLS. This, I would think, you would support with a ``Money talks`` world view.

(Wild Applause!!)

[paul-collins]

I don't think placing restrictions on their hiring practises by enforcing personnel quotas of any kind on them is right. We don't do it with other businesses so why in soccer?

So you're advocating doing away with the domestic player rules altogether?

[TheKottonmouthed1555362307]

Honestly that sounds like excuses. The Whitecaps wanted the lower domestic quota yet they are still the worst team in the league. It wouldn’t be easy to find good Canadian talent but the Caps haven’t made it a priority or bothered to look.

I don’t really understand your logic, when the caps are good they will start putting more Canadians on the roster? If Canada doesn’t have enough talent we don’t have enough talent and adding more Canadians to a good roster will make it a weaker one. The answer is to build a good team and make it progressively worse? I the caps suck this year and I would have preferred them suck with some domestics and perhaps find a few diamonds in the rough.

I think the CSA should push for a higher quota, barring that I would like to see the CSA push for something similar that the Russian Ice hockey federation did. Right now the Canadian keeper pool is so thin and this was also an issue for Russian ice hockey. They mandated their teams in lower leagues had to use all Russian goalkeepers and KHL teams had to play Russian goalkeepers for 35% of their games. I don’t see any reason why MLS clubs couldn’t carry 3 Canadian players and one Canadian international goalkeeper on their roster. The second keeper doesn’t play that much any way and it would keep guys like Josh Wagenaar and David Monslave in a job.

But we have seen sucking with canadian and trying to find diamonds in the rough doesn't work.

TFC tried it for years.

They had tons of Canadians come through there squad and all it did was make us want those Canadians nowhere near our national team anymore.

Build a team and a structure so that you can then place Canadian into the team that can have a chance to succeed and build off whats already there. We know for a fact loading the team with Canadians is gonna help no one, just for the sake of having Canadian content.

[James]

I'm happy that FCE has found success in the table. I think it's great that they are giving minutes to young Canadians. But you are deluding yourself here. Been there, done that.

You also come off as really cocky. I don't really understand this? The odds of the NASL surviving the next 5 years are slim at best. All the stable clubs of the old USL are gone. FCE plays in a monstrosity of a "stadium" that makes Swangard, Claude Robiallard or Centennial look like modern day, first division football stadia by comparison. Every other professional soccer club from Edmonton has folded. Yet here you are -when the entire board is giving your club credit, not saying the things I've just said (even though we're all thinking them in the back of our minds) flashing your club around like it was ****ing Barcelona. Are you ok?

Was I this annoying a year ago? TFC fans: I'm hoping to be in TO this fall for a wedding, sign up and punch me in the face if it's true. **** me.

I'm not delusional. I've supported every Edmonton team we've had since '79(indoor and out), I know we could lose it all in less than a season. I've been overly optimistic and a massive fanboy, only to see the league fold, the team fold or both. We play in a horrible little stadium that doesn't even have field turf... It's like astro turf from the 70's or something. And it's covered in football lines. Total bush league. It's what we have. Are they looking for a better place to play? Yep. Maybe even a brand new soccer specific stadium? Yep. But this is what we have for now. My eyes are wide open, believe me. All I can do is buy the tickets, wear the swag and cheer my voice til its hoarse. Having said that, When TFC hit the MLS, I was a big-time supporter and when Montreal won their 1994 APSL title, I was as proud of them as if I was born and raised there. A couple years ago got the whole country got excited and me along with them when they went on their cup run. I've always had a soft spot for the Whitecaps and 86ers, because they were the hosts of the first soccer game I'd ever seen, visiting Vancouver as a kid. It was at Empire Stadium in 78. I got an autographed poster and the won 6-0. Plus, they had always been so Canadian and the Stadium was packed.

If FCE were treating Canadian players the way TFC, the Caps and Montreal are treating them, I'd be as angry with them too. I'd probably still go to games but I'd be yelling and waving my Canadian flag til they did something about it. I love the fanboy site thats been posting the stats on MP by Canadian players from the four clubs. Kudos to the creator, if he's reading this post. A buddy of mine sent it to me and if it doesn't piss every Canadian fan off, it should...

http://oot-football.blogspot.com/2011/07/canadian-content-dismal-report.html

Vancouver- 9.3% Canadian and likely shrinking. Disgusting... And cellar dwellers

TFC- 15.9% Canadian. Almost as equally disgusting.... And cellar dwellers, worst defense in the MLS.

Montreal- 23.5% Canadian. Pathetic.... And Cellar dwellers but at least they got rid of the of the french(France) plague that was destroying the team.

Edmonton- 76.9% Canadian. A club where the best players on the pitch are Canadian and I don't care where they finish, they just happen to be near the top of the table.

This is a Canadian Supporter site. I'm a Canadian Supporter. I want our boys represented on the pitch. Screw you and anyone else, if you want anything else.

[James]

But we have seen sucking with canadian and trying to find diamonds in the rough doesn't work.

TFC tried it for years.

They had tons of Canadians come through there squad and all it did was make us want those Canadians nowhere near our national team anymore.

Build a team and a structure so that you can then place Canadian into the team that can have a chance to succeed and build off whats already there. We know for a fact loading the team with Canadians is gonna help no one, just for the sake of having Canadian content.

...because TFC and Vancouver are doing sooooo well right now without Canadians in the line-up. lol

[finchster]

But we have seen sucking with canadian and trying to find diamonds in the rough doesn't work.

TFC tried it for years.

They had tons of Canadians come through there squad and all it did was make us want those Canadians nowhere near our national team anymore.

Build a team and a structure so that you can then place Canadian into the team that can have a chance to succeed and build off whats already there. We know for a fact loading the team with Canadians is gonna help no one, just for the sake of having Canadian content.

I said it wouldn't be easy, but I would rather a proactive approach to looking for Canadian talent than not looking at all.