Gian-Luca Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Yeah, it's an odd one for sure. I have funny feeling the JDG's days are numbered. Could very well be, although he, as we've seen in his most recent game, can be played in another midfield position alongside the bottom point of the midfield triangle. I'm not sure if I can say that about the other three midfield candidates for that position (Frings, Dunfield and Sturgis - and that's not even counting option #5 with Stinson), though of course we have yet to see how Frings will be utilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I've noticed Nana struggling to pick up the new system as well, not a reflection on him as a player, where he's at in his development & where he could/should go, he was just a square peg in a round hole. Gonna miss him though, a great player with a great future. Is that the same new system that every other player on TFC have clearly mastered? How can Nana play the system, if he isn't being allowed to play at all?... Anyway, I don't think the system is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Well, they had better use up that international spot for a high-quality central defender, as that is otherwise a very high price to pay to get Ryan Johnson. Well, if the team is looking for a top notch CB they may have to DP him, which means De Guzman may be on his way, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpur Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Well I base it on the fact that he's a defensive midfielder and not a playmaker nor an attacking midfielder, so it seems strange to criticize him for any failures in that latter regard. I. Even defensive midfielders have to be able to distibute the ball once it's won. Winning it is only half of the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 TFC's clearly not done. The international spot + allocation that they seem to be getting back from San Jose is a precursor to an international defender coming on during the transfer window, IMO. Plus Hatchi from Montreal is apparently signing with TFC tomorrow, so that should add some depth in the short term. Toronto has an abundance of CM's, and I have to think that either JDG is on his way out, or one of Sturgis and Tchani will be shipped out in the coming days. As for Vancouver, it's been said that Soehn is moving everyone out who are not "his" guys. Fortunately, the next game isn't until the 20th because they will have to make moves. Looks like they will be short handed going into the CCL (if they move out a MF) because I can't imagine that Dunfield will be permitted to play. Would he not be "cup tied" to Vancouver? If Tchani is moved, then they might be able salvage JDG although I don't know how that will work from a cap perspective. I though Sturgis has been pretty good since the first game of the year in which he looked terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Well, they had better use up that international spot for a high-quality central defender, as that is otherwise a very high price to pay to get Ryan Johnson. Well I sure hope that this Ryan Johnson is some star because that is a massive price to pay for For him. Gordon has been one of the two revelations this year along with Eckersley. Peterson is not great but I was starting to warm up to his play. So they trades three roster players (who could start) in exchange for one player. I say, well done San Jose. I can only imagine that Gordon, having roots in California, may have wanted out. Otherwise why trade him. edit: Just checked His numbers and I am more confused by this move. Those numbers don't exactly stand out http://www.mlssoccer.com/players/ryan-johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Fortunately, the next game isn't until the 20th because they will have to make moves. Looks like they will be short handed going into the CCL (if they move out a MF) because I can imagine that Dunfield will be permitted to play. Would he not be "cup tied" to Vancouver? If Tchani is moved, then they might be able salvage JDG although I don't know how that will work from a cap perspective. I though Sturgis has been pretty good since the first game of the year in which he looked terrible. Why would Dunfield be cup-tied? The Nutrilite and CCL are not the same competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Why would Dunfield be cup-tied? The Nutrilite and CCL are not the same competition. I thought that they were, as far as the concacaf rules. Though I may be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Even defensive midfielders have to be able to distibute the ball once it's won. Winning it is only half of the job. For some strange reason you have cut off the part of that post where I said he "usually keeps his team in possession", which is precisesly what being able to distribute the ball means. Now if you disagree that he is good at doing that then we'll have to agree to disagree, but I'm not sure why you think I was unaware that d-mids need to be able to distribute the ball when I stated in that in the very post you are responding to. Frankly, from what I've seen, I'd say he's better at ball distribution than he is at winning it in the first place (not that he's poor at the latter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 People questioning San Jose got to realize Johnson is just a filler in trade. Main asset is international slot and cap space created by moving 3 players for one player. Also keep in mind Nana (doesn't fit into Winter's system and plus his contract expires of this year), Gordon (he wanted out and injury prone) and Peterson (he has been awful for us) aren't exactly part the future. Nana probably wasn't going to come back to Toronto after this year. Nana wants to play in Europe now and if that doesn't work for him, then he will look to sign a short term contract in MLS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpur Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 ^ none of the 'Caps current crop of central midfielders are particularly good at keeping possession IMO. That is why we so often resorted to route 1 football to bypass our midfield. We will have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpoma Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 hmm... as a TFC fan, I'm not sure what to think yet. So all I can say is we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Well, they had better use up that international spot for a high-quality central defender, as that is otherwise a very high price to pay to get Ryan Johnson. Wait a minute.....it has just dawned on me that when Winter was talking about getting a new central defender last week, he said it would have to be a domestic (American or Canadian) because all of their international spots are full. For the Johnson trade they have just traded three domestic players (two Americans and a Canadian) for a Jamaican international, which means that the extra international spot that they got from the trade actually has to be used just so that we can even play Johnson. Which makes this pretty much a straight 3 for 1 trade, and also means that Johnson is really going to have to produce to even make this an even trade (never mind being able to "win" it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 hmm... as a TFC fan, I'm not sure what to think yet. So all I can say is we'll see. Yeah, you can't judge TFC trade with San Jose just yet. We got to see who they get from international slot and cap space created by the trade before we judge if it was a good deal or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Wait a minute.....it has just dawned on me that when Winter was talking about getting a new central defender last week, he said it would have to be a domestic (American or Canadian) because all of their international spots are full. For the Johnson trade they have just traded three domestic players (two Americans and a Canadian) for a Jamaican international, which means that the extra international spot that they got from the trade actually has to be used just so that we can even play Johnson. Which makes this pretty much a straight 3 for 1 trade, and also means that Johnson is really going to have to produce to even make this an even trade (never mind being able to "win" it). Johnson has been in USA for a while (he went college in the states too) so I except he has a green card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Frankly, from what I've seen, I'd say he's better at ball distribution than he is at winning it in the first place (not that he's poor at the latter). I find him limited athletically, lacking the closing quickness a good ballwinner needs, so he doesn't fit that particular d-mid component. Closer observers of the Caps may disagree but I thought he and Vagenas are similar to Marty Nash in that sense. However, Dunfield likes to keep the possession moving with quick passes. More importantly, he strikes me as a guy who'd run through a fire in gasoline suit for ya so perhaps he that's another minor factor in his acquistion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Just checked His numbers and I am more confused by this move. Those numbers don't exactly stand out http://www.mlssoccer.com/players/ryan-johnson The number of the last two seasons do stand out........just not in a good way. I think Nana had more goals over the last two seasons than the 1 that Johnson mustered in 41 games. Hopefully this will be one of those trades that can spark a player back into form, because he did have a good year a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Cockney Rip Off Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Is that the same new system that every other player on TFC have clearly mastered? How can Nana play the system, if he isn't being allowed to play at all?... Anyway, I don't think the system is working. The 'system' worked well enough to beat Edmonton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Cockney Rip Off Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Wait a minute.....it has just dawned on me that when Winter was talking about getting a new central defender last week, he said it would have to be a domestic (American or Canadian) because all of their international spots are full. For the Johnson trade they have just traded three domestic players (two Americans and a Canadian) for a Jamaican international, which means that the extra international spot that they got from the trade actually has to be used just so that we can even play Johnson. Which makes this pretty much a straight 3 for 1 trade, and also means that Johnson is really going to have to produce to even make this an even trade (never mind being able to "win" it). From his wiki: "Ryan Johnson was born in Kingston, Jamaica and moved to the Boston area with his family while he was still an infant." I would guess he is a naturalized citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 The number of the last two seasons do stand out........just not in a good way. I think Nana had more goals over the last two seasons than the 1 that Johnson mustered in 41 games. Hopefully this will be one of those trades that can spark a player back into form, because he did have a good year a few years ago. I was also looking at games played and games started. The trend is not favourable there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I find him limited athletically, lacking the closing quickness a good ballwinner needs, so he doesn't fit that particular d-mid component. Closer observers of the Caps may disagree but I thought he and Vagenas are similar to Marty Nash in that sense. However, Dunfield likes to keep the possession moving with quick passes. More importantly, he strikes me as a guy who'd run through a fire in gasoline suit for ya so perhaps he that's another minor factor in his acquistion. Agreed - Dunfield has limitations but is the heart and soul of the team. Its a shame it didn't work out. However, unlike a guy like Jimmy Brennan, (equivalent hometown boy for TFC in the day) the center midfield slot is so key for the team - there's much more damage that can be done when Dunfield is not playing well. I think it's hard to deny that he's just a step behind where he needs to be in the MLS. The league is funny - its a harder running league than a technical league, and so some of the skills that work in Europe don't seem to add much in the MLS. The players around you aren't always of the same calibre, so it's just a bit harder to impact the game. I would say the same for JDG - I don't think its very easy to shine in the MLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 The 'system' worked well enough to beat Edmonton Yeah, you got me there. The system can beat a 10 man, second tier side playing the 4th game in their history. I wish we could play again now, I'm betting the result might be different. At least we have a Canadian team on the field. And we win the odd game. You guys can barely get a shot off over 90 minutes fielding a bunch of foreigners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soju Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 This homegrown vs. foreigners crap has no place in modern club football. If Edmonton could afford to sign superior players from other countries, they would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munseahawk Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Didn't Toronto need that international slot to accommodate Frings and Koevermans or was there a roster move I missed prior to that? As for Dunfield, I can't see why TFC would not be able to use him. If I recall the competition regs correctly, they do not need to submit their 30 man roster to CONCACAF until 48 hours before the preliminary round tie. That roster can then be adjusted for the group stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 This homegrown vs. foreigners crap has no place in modern club football. If Edmonton could afford to sign superior players from other countries, they would. Haha... You're so big league and cosmopolitan... Actually, last I checked, this is a Canadian Supporters forum. It absolutely matters to most of us here how and where our talent is being developed. When Toronto first hit the MLS, it was a priority most of us were hoping would be addressed. Lets face it, how much worse could they possibly be if TFC had a Canadian in Ty Hardin's role? Seriously, man, get out of it. As for what Edmonton would do with a bigger budget? Well, I've had the opportunity to speak to the FCE owner quite a few times over the past few months and it is absolutely a top priority for this team to develop Canadian talent, first and foremost. Thats straight from his mouth and he's more than backing it up. Canadians are getting minutes and they are developing and doing it quick. Not that we don't have high priced foreign help... A dutch coach with more managerial experience than Winter, for starters. That has sure helped our Canadian players develop. He followed in the footsteps of last years dutch coach(born in Alberta) who also had a ton of experience managing top flight european clubs. Add a few dutch players to help our Canadian players develop a professional attitude. And tell me they aren't good enough to make TFC. I haven't seen the latest Dutch signing but he isn't far removed from Hollands top flight and our next game will be his first. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't look out of place as an MLS signing. The point is, our team is a Canadian team and we're getting better results than a team of washed up yanks who'd rather be living in Cleveland and batch of sad sack euro castaways.... Toronto's love affair with players like Dichio( a 2nd tier journeyman at best) and your mistreatment of DDR and Cann and Poz and Nana and now even deGuzman speaks loudly. Play a Canadian once in a while and you guys might even get a shot on goal. It's funny that 4 or 5 of the top 5 or 6 Canadians in the MLS don't play for either TFC or the Whitecaps. I'm holding judgement on Van for another season or two but TFC are a disgrace for Canadian fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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