Italy updates

[Bertuzzi44]

Another win for Roberto Stillo this week and the Genoa Primaveras who sit first in the division after 5 games. He continues to train and excell with the first team and go down to play in the reserve games to keep ready for any oppertunity to play with first team. Never say never as he has played in 3 first team friendlies to date and done very well in all of them. Training with Eduardo, Scarpi, and Perin puts him in the best training/playing environment a keeper could ask for on a daily basis. Being trained by one of Italys top ranked keeper coaches Gianluca Spinelli (voted by the Seria A keeper coaches) has got to be the equvilant of a Harvard or Princeton university education! One day, its going to all pay off! Hopefully, someone will be smart enough to realize it and put arrogance and stupidity asside and try and utilize his knowledge and skill for the benifit of the game. Once again I stress he is the only canadian attached playing/training with a division 1 team in the world for his age and sits on a bench for country. Fact.......not fiction. Canada continues to turn there backs and look for what? We are hurting in the keeper dept. as it is, so why not utlize a player that has alot to offer and work to fit him into the future? He is tied to Genoa as he signed a 3 year contract in July..............but cant play and sits on a bench for his country. Why are we ranked so low in the world again? The truth hurts, and we as football lovers and canadian national team supporters continue to live with the mess and reality called Canada's National Team. We continue to push and hope for change!

Awesome! And when he does 'graduate', he will be ready! But Roberto is still so young and as you say is still learning. No need to rush, especially when we have Lars playing regularly for Vålerenga.

Good luck to Roberto! Great to hear he is doing well

[Keegan]

Awesome! And when he does 'graduate', he will be ready! But Roberto is still so young and as you say is still learning. No need to rush, especially when we have Lars playing regularly for Vålerenga.

Good luck to Roberto! Great to hear he is doing well

He means the U20 team not the senior team Bert

[loyola]

So why do you think your kid is not playing? If I'm NT coach it makes absolutely no sense that I would not play the best available players. Is it possible your kid was not the best available, has an attitude problem, did not fit in, had a bad training camp? I'm just asking.

Logic dictates if I'm NT coach I am not going to put my job on the line to please somebody else. Everybody cries politics and "old boy's network" but when my job is on the line, I do my best to survive (ie get wins) not please friends.

Just because someone is talented or fortunate enough to play at a high profile club a) doesn't mean they are the best player and they produce at the NT level. Our lowest level player (at club level) is one of our best producers, Ali Gerba. I'm not saying he's the best player but he has produced more at the NT level than Rob Friend who plays for a high profile club.

I have a hard time with parents speaking for their grown children (bringing to mind one paranoid Czech). It's like the parents of the U16 girls at Ontario Soccer Talk, my kid's the next Marta.

I agree with everything you just said.

BTW, Roberto has some good competitions at the U20 level in JLL and Jordan Santiago, both with pro clubs in Europe. At some point, people will have to understand that many youth players with pro clubs won't have a pro career while some guys from the NCAA will have a strong pro career (Brad Guzan and Stefan Frei are 2 good examples at the keeper position). Being at a big club doesn't mean you are better than someone else but it should help your credibility and give you more opportunities (like getting called to NT training camp) but if Jo Blo who's playing in a lower league looks better than you I won't feel bad if youa re sitting on the bench.

[Joe MacCarthy]

A good example of the above would be Alim Karim. I don't think anyone can deny his choice and performance at the U20 WC.

NTs can't pick players for tournaments based on down the road potential, like the songs says "Right here right now" it's what have you done for me lately.

[Guest Ed]

A good example of the above would be Alim Karim. I don't think anyone can deny his choice and performance at the U20 WC.

Karim is trotted out by regulars here all the time as an example of someone from a less prestigious club/school outperforming someone from a big club. I don't buy it and I don't know how he was chosen over Fernandes. According to players I knew at camps leading up to those games, Fernandes was head and shoulders over everyone else but Mitchell f*ed him over. I would argue that perhaps we could have gone further with Fernandes. How can you argue against that as we never got a chance to see him?

Stillo should be given a start for our U20's. Let his game performance be what he is judged upon, not whether he trains well or offers the right amount of deference to our god-like coaches.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Karim is trotted out by regulars here all the time as an example of someone from a less prestigious club/school outperforming someone from a big club. I don't buy it and I don't know how he was chosen over Fernandes. According to players I knew at camps leading up to those games, Fernandes was head and shoulders over everyone else but Mitchell f*ed him over. I would argue that perhaps we could have gone further with Fernandes. How can you argue against that as we never got a chance to see him?

Stillo should be given a start for our U20's. Let his game performance be what he is judged upon, not whether he trains well or offers the right amount of deference to our god-like coaches.

Yes Ed, but the truth on Karim: he was good those two tournaments. He was solid getting us past the US to qualify for the UAE u-20 Cup, and he stopped a penalty vs. Burkina Faso to get us into quarter finals, where we pushed Spain but lost in extra time. One of our best tournaments, and Karim was not out of place.

Do I think Fernandes was a better keeper then? Yes, definitely, more talented, more positives, more future, playing for Celta Vigo while Karim was at U. Syracuse. In retrospect it is clearer even. But you cannot knock the results, Karim did nothing wrong in goal for us, he was solid as hell.

[loyola]

Karim is trotted out by regulars here all the time as an example of someone from a less prestigious club/school outperforming someone from a big club. I don't buy it and I don't know how he was chosen over Fernandes. According to players I knew at camps leading up to those games, Fernandes was head and shoulders over everyone else but Mitchell f*ed him over. I would argue that perhaps we could have gone further with Fernandes. How can you argue against that as we never got a chance to see him?

I think Wagenaar (NCAA) over Giacomi (Glasgow Rangers) is a better example because we don't have to deal with a kid who suffered a career ending injury (Karim) to make comparaison.

I'm also not sure how you can say that we would've gone further with Fernandes in 2003, was Karim at fault for the goals (I don't remember honestly).

As for Stillo, he should be given a chance, but if someone looks better than him, the fact that soemone is at a "lesser" club shouldn't matter one bit TBH.

[Guest Ed]

^ I am speculating of course as Fernandes never played a game in qualifying. But I spoke to a number of players that were in the U20 camps and they all to a man said Fernandes was unreal. Their eyes lit up talking about him. Karim was not mentioned.

[alex36]

Thanks Ed, Well said and I agree with you. Look, dont throw the parent card in my face Joe till you have walked a mile in my shoes. There are countless examples of players like Roberto getting the run around and being not given the chance to play. Luck at playing at a big club has nothing to do with it man! You are either good enough or your not, and if you think a top teir club is going to give you a contract and waste time developing you if you dont have talent, then you know little about the game and the business. He has been shunned in his province and Canada his whole playing career by coaches with little or no vision, so this is nothing new. In fact we thank them for the motivation and chance to prove them wrong. . But when a kid goes to a camp and proves he is heads and tails better than the other keepers and then is told he doesnt have the right attitude to be #2 by the coach, then dont tell me politics has no play. He told the coach he doesn't want to be #2 and wants to play as #1 and go and win the world cup. Thats the attitude they dont like obviously. The truth hurts Joe and when are people going to have the guts to tell it like it is so as to not ruffle the feathers of the boys up top?. Where is the accountability for results and selection? In the real football world, Coaches are fired, not promoted when they dont get results. Only in Canada! By the way, You would think they would be promoting the fact he is Canadian and utilizing his knowledge and skill he is aquiring for the game. No, we will mabe or maybe not invite him to a camp, and we will maybe play him, or not, just to prove a point. He isn't afraid of the competition, its the coaches that are afraid that this kid is what he is, and its hard to hear I "I told you so". Lets call a spade a spade shall we, Canada is not going to put any food on his table, he is earning that in Europe, so As it is an honor to represent your country, if the powers that be, feel they have the best players......great good luck.....hope you get the results. But what if maybe there is someone better..........Let"s see how many times we can mistreat/disrespect players and have them come and eagerly represent our country shall we? How can he start and perform well in international friendlies with world class players and not be selected to start, even represent your country ? it makes no sense. I can only speak form my experience and it is a forum that i can express my views and opinions. As I respect the views of others here, agreeing with them or not.

[alex36]

Hi Loyola,

Bring on the competition and may the best keeper win, i dont think he is to concerned about the competiton but more so the chance to show. Dont mistake confidence for arrogance, and wanting to win and represent your country should be rewarded and set as an example and not seen as an attitude problem. Any player stepping out on the field not wanting to play at his best and want to do what it takes to win,should not be on the national team or in competive sports for that matter especially at an international level.

[Joe MacCarthy]

^ I am speculating of course as Fernandes never played a game in qualifying. But I spoke to a number of players that were in the U20 camps and they all to a man said Fernandes was unreal. Their eyes lit up talking about him. Karim was not mentioned.

Cmon Ed, potential and a toonie will get you a cup of coffee. Karim proved the coaches correct. Emmanuel Sandhu was a world champion of potential, Jeff Buttle went out and did it.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Look, dont throw the parent card in my face Joe till you have walked a mile in my shoes. There are countless examples of players like Roberto getting the run around and being not given the chance to play. Luck at playing at a big club has nothing to do with it man! You are either good enough or your not, and if you think a top teir club is going to give you a contract and waste time developing you if you dont have talent, then you know little about the game and the business. He has been shunned in his province and Canada his whole playing career by coaches with little or no vision, so this is nothing new. In fact we thank them for the motivation and chance to prove them wrong. . But when a kid goes to a camp and proves he is heads and tails better than the other keepers and then is told he doesnt have the right attitude to be #2 by the coach, then dont tell me politics has no play. He told the coach he doesn't want to be #2 and wants to play as #1 and go and win the world cup. Thats the attitude they dont like obviously. The truth hurts Joe and when are people going to have the guts to tell it like it is so as to not ruffle the feathers of the boys up top?. Where is the accountability for results and selection? In the real football world, Coaches are fired, not promoted when they dont get results. Only in Canada! By the way, You would think they would be promoting the fact he is Canadian and utilizing his knowledge and skill he is aquiring for the game. No, we will mabe or maybe not invite him to a camp, and we will maybe play him, or not, just to prove a point. He isn't afraid of the competition, its the coaches that are afraid that this kid is what he is, and its hard to hear I "I told you so". Lets call a spade a spade shall we, Canada is not going to put any food on his table, he is earning that in Europe, so As it is an honor to represent your country, if the powers that be, feel they have the best players......great good luck.....hope you get the results. But what if maybe there is someone better..........Let"s see how many times we can mistreat/disrespect players and have them come and eagerly represent our country shall we? How can he start and perform well in international friendlies with world class players and not be selected to start, even represent your country ? it makes no sense. I can only speak form my experience and it is a forum that i can express my views and opinions. As I respect the views of others here, agreeing with them or not.

I wouldn't be "throwing the parent card" as you say if you weren't playing it. I seem to recall you saying your son was getting sniffs from Italy when you first started posting here. I immediately posted saying something to the effect of let's nip this in the bud, if your kid is Canadian say so, if not don't post that crap.

There are countless examples of Canadians in the systems of big clubs. Roberto is not the first, won't be the last, and we all hope he succeeds, but many haven't.

You say he has been shunned, why do you suppose that is? Is the coach saying to himself "We have the second coming of Craig Forrest here but we're not going to play him." That notion defies all credulity and logic just as saying they don't like a winner's attitude. Something's missing here.

If the truth hurts here is something to swallow. We have other young keepers in JLL and Santiago who are also in pro systems. Are they head and shoulders below Roberto? I think not. So the coaches are afraid of being told "I told you so". Does that make any sense at all after the cases of ********** and JDG2. Don't you think they don't want anyone with potential to get away and have that dog them for the rest of their career. Let's give them a sliver of credit for having half a brain. The problem with all this conspiracy stuff is that it never makes sense or is logical.

Mistreat/disrespect players? Or is that more like mollycoddle prima donnas who think they are above everyone else because they are at a big club.

I sincerely hope Roberto gets his chance on merit and fulfills everyone's dreams here, but because you're selling him here doesn't mean the other keepers who aren't getting the pub aren't worthy either and (gasp) could be the number one.

[loyola]

But when a kid goes to a camp and proves he is heads and tails better than the other keepers and then is told he doesnt have the right attitude to be #2 by the coach, then dont tell me politics has no play.

Who determined he was head and tail better than the oher keepers? You? Him? The coach? An outsider?

I don't have a problem with him believing he's better than the other keepers, that's how a real competitor think. But to come here and complain about it isn't the best way to react to the news the coach is considering JLL superior. Your son has been given a chance, if the coach feels he didn't take it, so be it. It's up to Roberto to prove him wrong.

[Joe MacCarthy]

^^Amen

[Grizzly]

Parent, relatives and friends of players should really stick to giving updates on the player's progress. Coming on here and complaining about coaches, CSA etc. rightly or wrongly if anything only hinders the players career and makes them and their families look bad.

As far as Stillo is concerned, telling the coach that you want to be number 1 is one thing, telling the coach that you are better than the other keepers and that he needs to select you as number 1 is an entirely different thing. I don't know which of the two things happened but the posts and attitude of his father seem to imply the latter. The coach not the player or his parent selects the team and if a player is not selected then neither he or his family should be complaining, he should work even harder and try to prove to the coach next time that he is better player by his actions on the field.

[JOGAKANATA]

I believe nobody should be disrespected but I also believe people should be allowed to speak their mind. I think on this forum people find themselves protecting individuals that don't deserve to be protected the only way to eradicate the poison that has been plagueing this program since the current crop has been in diapers, is to speak openly, blow the whistle and call people out on a professional level. for to long people have been covering for people that don't deserve it and only thing that suffers at the end of the day is the program. Its time to be men and not mice. from adminstration to managers to players if your not upto it Gtfo. No more free rides! Canada can't afford it!

[Joe MacCarthy]

I think on this forum people find themselves protecting individuals that don't deserve to be protected the only way to eradicate the poison that has been plagueing this program since the current crop has been in diapers, is to speak openly, blow the whistle and call people out on a professional level. for to long people have been covering for people that don't deserve it and only thing that suffers at the end of the day is the program. Its time to be men and not mice. from adminstration to managers to players if your not upto it Gtfo.

If you take that to mean players, I'm all for it. After the Begovic and Lensky selection debacles, we now see some of the players for what they are (less than stellar human beings). If you take that to mean coaches and administrators show some proof instead of rumours of conspiracy, auld boy's network and other ridiculous sour grapes. It's pretty obvious most (not all) parents have an agenda as do small time coaching wannabes etc.

[BigBird]

Hi guys in some cases you may be right when parents post on the forum and it is difficult and I feel for Robert and many other too, it is tough specially when as young as Robert and the competitive comparison and trying to position yourself a spot is difficult to asses if I spelled correctly with other players. I too at times have had to bite my tongue and not post, specially when you guys make line ups etc etc. sure its personal and I know that from encounters with Grizzly back, its on deaf ears sorry but so.

It was as we say "Trying to Sell your son" on a team U17 & U20 I know that now, so I post very little and stay to the facts keep you updated that is it, as I feel I can contribute a grey area in Italy in this area on this forum.

A player like littlebird for example who understands that choices, selection, when and who, is made by the coach at the end of the day as long as one is there and CANADA wins, he does not care if they use him, they can win them all and he sit them all if nessesary, but if they should not win or succeed he I know would feel he has failed by not convincing the coach that he could have helped.. anyone could be accountable of course public opinions go up at that point, would be the coach for not using him, or the player not convincing enough in the MNT program.

But in the Youth side There is no magic there is no potion, there is no black or white nor he is better then him or not or he older or younger higher or lower level or not. But I will mention this, "your only as good as the player next to you and if he is better then you youll be a better player and if your not then it will show and it needs to be replaced till you get the right ingredient", I know ALEX means well and he is very proud of Robert and his accomplishments and he is truly just shy of his first start in Serie A and I can feel it coming and also the pain as littlebird has expressed to me when he was young and at his age and till today littlebird feels he could have helped the U17, and or U20 team. Lets call a spade a spade, reality is today, using my son as example it is more difficult for littlebird to prove to CANADA, that he belongs MNT today as he was not part of the U17 and U20 and they know nothing of him but yet others that where in that era get all the attention, as they where part of it.

Call it a spade a spade in order to get the right ingrediate you have to mix things up and evryone has to play and be seen. If you call a player at that age one should have an opportunity so that you can identify at a very young age to better the MNT program. There is no harm in doing this in friendliest and maybe this is why he may feel this way and I agree with him unless you see him play you cannot compare Robert to anyone and nor can you.

[JOGAKANATA]

If you take that to mean players, I'm all for it. After the Begovic and Lensky selection debacles, we now see some of the players for what they are (less than stellar human beings). If you take that to mean coaches and administrators show some proof instead of rumours of conspiracy, auld boy's network and other ridiculous sour grapes. It's pretty obvious most (not all) parents have an agenda as do small time coaching wannabes etc.

are you serious? I think the results and current state of the program at all levels, show that this is not conspiracy. Hate when people use this word "conspiracy". Canada a developed nation, probably has the most under qualified administrators and coaches in the business. This is not conspiracy but fact!. The fact that people keep tolerating and covering for this monkey operation is beyond me.

[Guest Ed]

Cmon Ed, potential and a toonie will get you a cup of coffee. Karim proved the coaches correct. Emmanuel Sandhu was a world champion of potential, Jeff Buttle went out and did it.

Notice I said he did not play in qualifying games. But Fernandes did play in a number of friendlies and that was where I heard of his skills from other players. Karim didn't prove the coaches correct. The only way you could say that is if Fernandes was given a head to head chance in similar games. He never got that chance and that is down to Mitchell's attitude. The inability of our f*ing coaches at the U20 level to treat very talented players correctly is one big reason we lose players. Why are you defending them? James with the unmentionable one, Mitchell with Fernandes. The fact that they made a world cup when the most of the CONCACAF nations couldn't afford a pot to piss in let alone put together a good program gives them carte blanche??

[JOGAKANATA]

Notice I said he did not play in qualifying games. But Fernandes did play in a number of friendlies and that was where I heard of his skills from other players. Karim didn't prove the coaches correct. The only way you could say that is if Fernandes was given a head to head chance in similar games. He never got that chance and that is down to Mitchell's attitude. The inability of our f*ing coaches at the U20 level to treat very talented players correctly is one big reason we lose players. Why are you defending them? James with the unmentionable one, Mitchell with Fernandes. The fact that they made a world cup when the most of the CONCACAF nations couldn't afford a pot to piss in let alone put together a good program gives them carte blanche??

See now we're adressing real issues within our program and structure.

[Gian-Luca]

Notice I said he did not play in qualifying games. But Fernandes did play in a number of friendlies and that was where I heard of his skills from other players. Karim didn't prove the coaches correct. The only way you could say that is if Fernandes was given a head to head chance in similar games. He never got that chance and that is down to Mitchell's attitude. The inability of our f*ing coaches at the U20 level to treat very talented players correctly is one big reason we lose players. Why are you defending them? James with the unmentionable one, Mitchell with Fernandes. The fact that they made a world cup when the most of the CONCACAF nations couldn't afford a pot to piss in let alone put together a good program gives them carte blanche??

If by the unmentionable one you mean **********, that would actually be Tony Taylor, wouldn't it? Or was Paul James also guilty of something when ********** was eligible for the U20 level?

I agree with your main point though - its difficult to judge the situation when I haven't seen the U20 camps, nor any of the keepers who have been called to them play (I did see Street play in the last U20 cycle, but as he is currently not playing I don't think we can currently count him for this cycle) but given that our results haven't been great in the U20 friendlies it is very difficult to argue that Roberto Stillo shouldn't get another look at our next camp, especially since he has not been seen by Gazzola since his recent performances with Genoa.

Edit: That would be H.a.r.g.r.e.a.v.e.s I am referring to in the post above - what he hell is up with the auto-censorship on this board, we are censoring out the names of players we don't like? I can't stand OH, but this is ridiculous if that's the case.

[loyola]

Edit: That would be H.a.r.g.r.e.a.v.e.s I am referring to in the post above - what he hell is up with the auto-censorship on this board, we are censoring out the names of players we don't like? I can't stand OH, but this is ridiculous if that's the case.

I don't understand that one either, maybe a joke by socceronly? I'll look into that to see what we can do.

[Grizzly]

I don't understand that one either, maybe a joke by socceronly? I'll look into that to see what we can do.

It's been there a long time so am not sure who initiated it. I think it is a big exaggeration to call it censorship though, it is mostly humourous and like swear words, if anyone wants to get around the ban a period somewhere between the letters will suffice. Pretty much anyone who reads the forum regularly knows who is being reffered to when his name is blotted out.

[gator]

Hi guys in some cases you may be right when parents post on the forum and it is difficult and I feel for Robert and many other too, it is tough specially when as young as Robert and the competitive comparison are difficult to asses if I spelled correctly with other players. I too at times have had to bite my tongue and not post, specially when you guys make line ups etc etc....as it becomes personal and I know that from encounters from grizzly back a while its on deaf ears sorry but so. But when I realized, what and why am I doing this, was then to sell my sons position on a team U17 & U20. Till I started to realize what for, its not your choices on this forum nor mine anyhow been there and done it. SO I post very little and stay to the facts of the day just to keep you updated that is it as I feel I can contribute a grey area in Italy in this area on this forum.

The fact remains as my son said in an Interview as many other too if asked and understands that choices, selection, when and who, is made by the coach at the end of the day as long as he is there and CANADA wins he does not care if they use him, they can win them all and he sit, but if they should not win or succeed he would feel he has failed not convincing the coach that he could have helped.. Can someone be accountable of course at that point would be the coach for not using him or the player not convincing enough.

There is no magic there is no potion, there is no black or white nor he is better then him or not or he older or younger higher or lower level or not. But I will mention this you only as good as the player next to you and if its the right ingredient is there, then great, if not change will take place till it becomes better or right... I know ALEX means well and he is very proud of Robert and his accomplishments and he is truly just shy of his first start in Serie A and I can feel it coming and the pain as littlebird has expressed to me when he was young as he still feels today he could have helped the U17, U20 team. Lets call a spade a spade it more difficult for my son to prove to CANADA that he belongs MNT as he was not part of the U17 and U20 as many others that where but yet you forget the ones that was not part of that era, call it a spade a spade If you call a player at that age one should have an opportunity to be seen and seen well so that you can identify at a very young age to better the MNT program. There is no harm in doing this in friendliest and maybe this is why he may feel this way and I agree with him unless you see him play you cannot compare Robert to anyone and nor can you.

Good post BigBird! Obviously any parents that post on here are very proud of their sons and want them to be included in any team at any level, they have every right to critcize coaches or administrators of Canadian soccer, just as we do! The risk of this is it could sound like sour grapes to some and I think Frank gets this! I don't have a problem with what alex has posted on here, it's somewhat eye opening, in fact before I had read anything from him I wondered why Robert wasn't being called up if he is with a big club team! The other parent that posted on here (miro?) whos' son plays in the Czech Republic, I think he went overboard with his posts and there was too much critisism of fellow young Canadian players for my liking but that's just my opininon! I think any parents know that they are going to be open to varying opinions when they post on an open forum! I for one appreciate their posts and their inside perspective and I encourage Alex and Frank to continue to post, it's great for discussion and isn't that what the forum is all about?