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Toronto FC @ Vancouver Whitecaps - Wed. May 19


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Well, this one could very well decide the competition. A Vancouver loss guarantees TFC the Cup, while a draw or Vancouver win keeps things going for them. Montreal could also end up playing a spoiler for TFC if they bend over backward for the Caps in the second last match. Wouldn't that be something.

My prediction: 0-0

This year's competition doesn't quite have the gusto of the previous two, and this match will be yet another midfield battle with a few posts and crossbars hit, but nothing will hit the back of the ol' onion bag (a la Tommy Smyth).

Vancouver will definitely have to win their last two if they want to claim Canada's silverware and represent at the CCL. Regardless, I'm fairly confident we will see our side make it at least to the group stage this time around. Is it possible for our representative to end up in a group with an MLS side?

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If TFC are as organized as they were against LA, I don't see Vancouver getting a point here. Bold prediction since TFC hasn't won an away game yet this year, but there was a lot that impressed me in their game against LA. Unless some of the knocks in the LA game take out some key personnel, I predict that TFC will claim their first road scalp this season.

Preki and the boys will want to wrap up the Canadian Championship as quickly as possible so that they can focus all of their attention on the League. They will also know that if Vancouver is still in the hunt later in the competition, they could get an easy game against an already eliminated Montreal. Best to just get it done on Wednesday.

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Bold prediction since TFC hasn't won an away game yet this year, but there was a lot that impressed me in their game against LA.

TFC beat Montreal at Stade Saputo, so yeah, they have won an away game this year....

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Montreal could also end up playing a spoiler for TFC if they bend over backward for the Caps in the second last match. Wouldn't that be something.

Montreal can't play spoiler this time, at least as far as goal differential (beating or drawing Vancouver could cost Vancouver the cup).

If TFC wins either game against Vancouver, TFC wins the Voyageurs Cup (9 points).

If TFC and Vancouver tie both games, and Vancouver have a win against Montreal, TFC wins with 8 points, Vancouver will have 6.

If Vancouver wins both games, then Vancouver takes the cup (7 points, TFC will have 6).

If Vancouver wins one against TFC and ties the other, that's the only situation where the Montreal match will have an "impact." Vancouver will have 5 points if they lose to the Impact, 6 points if they tie, 8 points if they beat Montreal (TFC will have 7). So Montreal can deny Vancouver the cup in that situation only.

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Montreal can't play spoiler this time, at least as far as goal differential (beating or drawing Vancouver could cost Vancouver the cup).

If TFC wins either game against Vancouver, TFC wins the Voyageurs Cup (9 points).

If TFC and Vancouver tie both games, and Vancouver have a win against Montreal, TFC wins with 8 points, Vancouver will have 6.

If Vancouver wins both games, then Vancouver takes the cup (7 points, TFC will have 6).

If Vancouver wins one against TFC and ties the other, that's the only situation where the Montreal match will have an "impact." Vancouver will have 5 points if they lose to the Impact, 6 points if they tie, 8 points if they beat Montreal (TFC will have 7). So Montreal can deny Vancouver the cup in that situation only.

The whole "Impact" pun thing is getting really tired...

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Not too sure about that one, let me check a few "Lynx" to the definition of that word so I can decide:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/impactful

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=impactful

Oh wait..I forgot, none of those great soccer "fans" would get that one...

Well I hope Montreal also gets some "fans", as they cannot rely on the current batch of thousands of freebies to make an "impact" on attendance in MLS. Joey's got an "ultra" big expansion fee to pay back, you know...

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Well I hope Montreal also gets some "fans", as they cannot rely on the current batch of thousands of freebies to make an "impact" on attendance in MLS. Joey's got an "ultra" big expansion fee to pay back, you know...

First off I want to apologize for my part in turning this thread into a Montreal/Toronto pissing contest.

Considering the Lynx had about 1,000 people in the stands during their USL-1 years and now BMO is full with all the those "Real footy fans", I'm pretty sure the Impact with their measley 4,500 season tickets (Almost as much or more then some MLS teams) in D2 soccer will be able to get enough of those great "real fans" to fill up the other 15,000 seats...

So even if you take away the "freebies" we would still probably be #1 in D2 attendance and probably have almost as much butts in the seats as Columbus does now...

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I don't want to derail this thread, but I worry about the assumption that just because TFC did, both the Whitecaps and Impact will automatically have the same results. From an outsider's perspective, it would seem to me that TFC made the games an event to go to that kept the "novelty" fans coming back game after game and using that momentum to build a solid fan base. If the Whitecaps or the Impact, as established clubs, keep the status quo and assume that MLS will be enough to draw people back game after game, they may run into trouble.

I don't think you can say that just because it happened with TFC, it'll happen with the Impact (or Whitecaps etc.). Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled thread...

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I don't want to derail this thread, but I worry about the assumption that just because TFC did, both the Whitecaps and Impact will automatically have the same results. From an outsider's perspective, it would seem to me that TFC made the games an event to go to that kept the "novelty" fans coming back game after game and using that momentum to build a solid fan base. If the Whitecaps or the Impact, as established clubs, keep the status quo and assume that MLS will be enough to draw people back game after game, they may run into trouble.

I don't think you can say that just because it happened with TFC, it'll happen with the Impact (or Whitecaps etc.). Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled thread...

I don't want to derail the thread anymore either...but I agree.

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I don't want to derail this thread, but I worry about the assumption that just because TFC did, both the Whitecaps and Impact will automatically have the same results. From an outsider's perspective, it would seem to me that TFC made the games an event to go to that kept the "novelty" fans coming back game after game and using that momentum to build a solid fan base. If the Whitecaps or the Impact, as established clubs, keep the status quo and assume that MLS will be enough to draw people back game after game, they may run into trouble.

I don't think you can say that just because it happened with TFC, it'll happen with the Impact (or Whitecaps etc.). Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled thread...

What leads you to believe that the Impact and the Whitecaps won't do the same? I don't know about the Caps but Richard Legendre (Impact VP) has said in interviews that they will actively target the 18-35 yr old market for 2012..

I mean the Caps and Impact FO's are not all complete morons that will just keep the status quo and do nothing and just keep their fingers crossed and hope to fill the stadium. I'm pretty sure that they are just as able to figure out what will work as all us soccer board know-it-alls..

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Hey, guys, there's a football match on Wednesday!

The Whitecaps, I think, have to win this one (a draw keeps them mathematically alive but if you think they're taking all three points at BMO Field with the Cup on the line you're living in a dream world). I also don't think they will unless Toronto comes out seriously overconfident.

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First off I want to apologize for my part in turning this thread into a Montreal/Toronto pissing contest.

I question whether you're actually sorry, though.

Whine all you want, but we've built a pretty damned good culture of support out here. Why you feel that is threatening to you or the Impact is beyond me, but whatever. Keep taking shots, it accomplishes nothing.

Let's get this thread back to discussing Vancouver and Toronto, since Montreal failed to make an impact on the tournament this year.

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First off I want to apologize for my part in turning this thread into a Montreal/Toronto pissing contest.

Considering the Lynx had about 1,000 people in the stands during their USL-1 years and now BMO is full with all the those "Real footy fans", I'm pretty sure the Impact with their measley 4,500 season tickets (Almost as much or more then some MLS teams) in D2 soccer will be able to get enough of those great "real fans" to fill up the other 15,000 seats...

So even if you take away the "freebies" we would still probably be #1 in D2 attendance and probably have almost as much butts in the seats as Columbus does now...

Yes, because those of us who decided it wasn't worth commuting an hour to the outskirts of the city to watch Martin Dugas run with his head down into a wall of defenders aren't "real footy fans".

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Julian de Guzman is doubtful for this one, BTW.

He tweaked his hamstring in Montreal last week and aggravated it during the warm-up prior to TFC's game in LA on Saturday.

I'd say this also puts his ability to take part in the Argentina match in doubt, as well.

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Yeah ... lets get back to the game.

I think it all comes down to who wants it more. Vancouver's back 4 is solid, so TFC won't be given the same liberties that the Montreal back 4 offered. Having Marlon James available, will be another plus for the Caps. Hopefully he can prounce on a Nick Garcia blunder, get them the lead, and then pull a "Puerto Rico" to walk away with the 3 points.

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Yeah ... lets get back to the game.

I think it all comes down to who wants it more. Vancouver's back 4 is solid, so TFC won't be given the same liberties that the Montreal back 4 offered. Having Marlon James available, will be another plus for the Caps. Hopefully he can prounce on a Nick Garcia blunder, get them the lead, and then pull a "Puerto Rico" to walk away with the 3 points.

Hearing an Impact fan say that "hopefully" the Whitecaps win a game makes me feel kinda dirty.

The problem is that, hypothetically, if we do start bunkering, Toronto's midfield even without de Guzman could cut Vancouver's into pieces. The Whitecaps will always have to retain an element of active play or the FC will just be able to play the ball at will.

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Hearing an Impact fan say that "hopefully" the Whitecaps win a game makes me feel kinda dirty.

The problem is that, hypothetically, if we do start bunkering, Toronto's midfield even without de Guzman could cut Vancouver's into pieces. The Whitecaps will always have to retain an element of active play or the FC will just be able to play the ball at will.

Don't flatter yourself, It's the lesser of two evils. Not that there's anything wrong with being a White Caps fan.

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I question whether you're actually sorry, though.

Whine all you want, but we've built a pretty damned good culture of support out here. Why you feel that is threatening to you or the Impact is beyond me, but whatever. Keep taking shots, it accomplishes nothing.

Let's get this thread back to discussing Vancouver and Toronto, since Montreal failed to make an impact on the tournament this year.

When did I mention that this is threatening?

Your the self appointed TFC police scouring blogs and forums to put anybody who doesn't think that Toronto is the soccer universe of North America in their place... TFC has a lot of supporters and supports their current team well. Congratulations! What is annoying is TFC fans constantly assuming that their support cannot possibly be replicated elsewhere and that nobody else is as "hardcore" as they are..

I was simply pointing out that on a D2 level Montreal's support trumps pretty much anything else seen on that level ( Portland's is awesome as well) and that because of that they will have no problem being a well supported MLS side..

And may i point out that this little disagreement was started because you felt the need to respond to me voicing that using the word "Impact" as a pun in every article, blog post about them is getting really old....

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When did I mention that this is threatening?

No need to. Your responses say it all.

Your the self appointed TFC police scouring blogs and forums to put anybody who doesn't think that Toronto is the soccer universe of North America in their place... TFC has a lot of supporters and supports their current team well. Congratulations! What is annoying is TFC fans constantly assuming that their support cannot possibly be replicated elsewhere and that nobody else is as "hardcore" as they are..

You must be the self-appointed Rudi Police then, since you're obviously keeping track of my web-surfing habits (poorly at that, since I don't do what you've described). Links (or "Lynx", if you will) or STFU with the baseless accusations.

Actually don't bother with the links, they'll just serve to push this thread even further off-topic, after which I'm sure you'll offer another "sincere" apology.

As for you being annoyed with TFC fans, I honestly couldn't give a crap. Project your whining about other TFC fans on someone else, because I don't participate in what you described.

I was simply pointing out that on a D2 level Montreal's support trumps pretty much anything else seen on that level ( Portland's is awesome as well) and that because of that they will have no problem being a well supported MLS side..

In a thread about a game that has nothing to do with Montreal, you needed to point out how "hardcore" the Impact fanbase is (see, I can do that too).

Why?

And may i point out that this little disagreement was started because you felt the need to respond to me voicing that using the word "Impact" as a pun in every article, blog post about them is getting really old....

It's a discussion forum, in a thread about my team, so yes I "felt the need to respond". That's what a discussion forum is about.

All I did was make a sarcastic little joke, in line with what had been written, that wasn't offensive nor took aim at your team or fans. Why you felt the need to delve off into this completely off-topic pissing contest is on you.

Who's the self-appointed forum police again?

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Hearing an Impact fan say that "hopefully" the Whitecaps win a game makes me feel kinda dirty.

The problem is that, hypothetically, if we do start bunkering, Toronto's midfield even without de Guzman could cut Vancouver's into pieces. The Whitecaps will always have to retain an element of active play or the FC will just be able to play the ball at will.

I think you're giving TFC a little too much credit.

Yes, Preki has gotten his players to buy into the hard-working, keep-possession system, but without Julian the midfield is very average. If JDG is out, Vancouver will no doubt focus completely on DeRo, and as good as he's been he may not be able to handle that much attention on his own.

If anything, it is the forwards (Barrett and White/Peterson) that hold the key to cutting apart Vancouver's midfield. TFC's mid is a bunch of hard-working D Mid types trhat will win the ball but can't do much with it. Only Labrocca an DeRo have the ability to really break down the opposing midfield, and with due respect to Labrocca he's nowhere near the level of DeRo.

This'll be a tight, chippy game IMO.

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