'Caps and Impact's CCL eligibility in question

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

I asked Peter Montopoli directly whether the Caps and Impact would be eligible for the CCL if they were playing in a non-recognized league. He pretty much came out and directly said no: http://www.24thminute.com/2009/12/concacaf-champions-league-eligibility.html

It's also becoming increasingly clear that the NASL group is in a whole lot of trouble when it comes to USSF sanctioning. And the CSA ain't keen on stepping up to fil that role: http://www.24thminute.com/2009/12/nasl-in-trouble-csa-not-ready-to-bail.html

[Richard]

I find it hard to believe that the USSF would refuse to sanction the NASL with 10 clubs already committed, in favour of the USL with 2.5 clubs. What hope is there of negotiating a long term amicable resolution if an intransigent USL is threatening to sue everbody and his dog including the TOA if the USL doesn't get its way, this is like a little kid threatening to take its ball and go home because its not winning the game? Besides, the TOA group could probably pay off any genuine debts still owed to the USL by a few of its member clubs without making much of a dent in its communal bank account. I think there is a touch of alarmism on the part of Peter Montopoli and the CSA here.

[the biologist]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

I find it hard to believe that the USSF would refuse to sanction the NASL with 10 clubs already committed, in favour of the USL with 2.5 clubs. What hope is there of negotiating a long term amicable resolution if an intransigent USL is threatening to sue everbody and his dog including the TOA if the USL doesn't get its way, this is like a little kid threatening to take its ball and go home because its not winning the game? Besides, the TOA group could probably pay off any genuine debts still owed to the USL by a few of its member clubs without making much of a dent in its communal bank account. I think there is a touch of alarmism on the part of Peter Montopoli and the CSA here.

I so much agree.

quote:"He wasn't happy," an insider said of Montopoli's mode after he spoke to the USSF today. "The NASL might be in big trouble. There may not be a NASL."

Wow, if that is not overexaggerating, I don't know what is.

quote:Another source close to the situation in the U.S. said that the USL was "threatening to sue everyone at the table."

Yeah, and my name is Kenny McCormick and I OMG they just killed me... [xx(] Seriously, I think we just have to sit down and relax while the TOA get their act together and the USSF understands there's simply no hope for an eventual USLD1 next year.

quote:"We are hopeful that the USSF will sanction the league, whether it's called the NASL or something else," he said. "Once that happens we invite the Whitecaps and Impact, and any other team looking to be a part of it, to approach us to be sanctioned."

Just the 836th symptom of how low the importance of the CSA is.

[Cheeta]

Okay, analysis from the little we know. Lord knows what's been said so far outside of public knowledge.

1). Think we all agree that the USL are blowing smoke out of their ass. At the end of the day there will be a NASL and there is nothing the USL brass can do about it. They're pissed and looking to get as much out of the TOA group as they can and the way to do that is to jerk them around as much as possible. Odd (or perhaps it isn't) that the USSF is playing along with that game. Wonder how many threads, relationships, connect the the current USL ownership & USSF HQ?

2). It's true that the CSA is in a bad spot. But it's also true two-thirds of Canada's pro clubs are part of this NASL scheme and two-thirds of the major footie shakers and their bank accounts are also part of this. It really comes down to how serious Kerfoot & Saputo are about this. Let things sort themselves out and lose a year or go all in. If they figure the gloves are off and want to go all in they could as much as tell Montopoli the CSA should sanction the league, and the CSA is going to sanction the league. USSF & USL be damned and dare CONCACAF/FIFA to overrule the decision. Grow a pair for fu'ks sake. Plus if the USSF were to be politely & privately told the CSA will not allow two of it's three domestic clubs go "outlaw" in 2010 USSF efforts between the two groups may take a slightly different and probably more effective direction.

3). Lawyer up boys. The courts are a two way street. That being said, until Saputo and Co. are awarded an MLS franchise things may be a bit more delicate for the Montreal group than say the WhiteCap organization.

4) Isn't this fun!

[redhat]

The funny (strange) thing is, the CSL is already recognized as a legitimate league by FIFA.

If the NASL Canadian teams want, they can create an alliance with the CSL for a "Canadian Pro"

division, and thus may still be recognized by NCC, CONCACAF, and FIFA.

Just thinking out loud with the 'whatifs' scenario ...

[Massive Attack]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

this is like a little kid threatening to take its ball and go home because its not winning the game?

Isn't this a good way to describe the TOA clubs as well? Or do we give them a free pass because Vancouver and Montreal are involved?

[Richard]

^ Despite several requests on my part - formal and informal - the CSA has steadfastly refused to answer my questions about FIFA recognition of the CSL as 'Canada's national league' or it's formal status as far as the CSA is concerned. One would think if it was all true a simple 'yes' to my questions would do. Instead all I get is prevarication, have to wonder why.

[masster]

The CSA should simply sanction the Nutrilite Canadian Championship as a League and request Concacaf to follow suit. The NCC is in a league format and not just a knockout cup competition.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

Anything the CSA sanctions as a Canadian championship is such for FIFA's purposes. If they want to appoint some team from Sudbury champion and go alphabetically from there, I bet they could get away with it. If the national Association or Fed sets it up, whatever the teams from whatever the league, the FIFA structures are always going to say yes to it. So I am not worried at all.

The USSF may have more problems doing an Open Cup with teams from USL and NASL though, that could be tricky.

[Richard]

^ I doubt it is quite as simple as that. CONCACAF only gave Canada a spot once Toronto FC arrived on the scene.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

^ I doubt it is quite as simple as that. CONCACAF only gave Canada a spot once Toronto FC arrived on the scene.

No, I think it goes the other way: the CSA only decided to organize a national championship when TFC was on the scene. It had nothing to do with Concacaf. Fifa doesn't work that way Richard, I mean I was exagerrating in my first post, for sure, but basically anything a national FA sanctions within reasonable limits will be respected by Concacaf for ConcaChampions.

[SteveBeau]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

^ I doubt it is quite as simple as that. CONCACAF only gave Canada a spot once Toronto FC arrived on the scene.

No, they only gave Canada a spot when they changed the format of the tournament in 2008 (adding more teams) and renamed it the Concacaf Champions League..

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by masster

The CSA should simply sanction the Nutrilite Canadian Championship as a League and request Concacaf to follow suit. The NCC is in a league format and not just a knockout cup competition.

That would be perfect. And why not, I have always viewed the V-cup competition as our league championship. Currently its three teams but so what, over time that can grow. And who knows, in 20 years, it may resemble what league championships arounf the globe look like.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by SteveBeau

No, they only gave Canada a spot when they changed the format of the tournament in 2008 (adding more teams) and renamed it the Concacaf Champions League..

As far as I know previous three Canadian USL clubs ( Montreal Impact, Vancouver Whitecaps and Toronto Lynx) were not interested in a national championship or playing in Concacaf prior to teh arrival of MLS in canada.

Concacaf has been crowning a champion to play at the FIFA world club cup for a very long time. And no canadian club was enterred in that competition despite the fact that US based USL teams were ( through the US open cup). Like it or not TFC had everything to do with why we have the NCC. TFC was interested whereas indications were that the Lynx were not. As far as Mon and Van, I am sure that the chamce to play an MLS side ( TFC brought greater exposure to the table) was their motivation for agreeing to play in NCC.

[RJB]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

I asked Peter Montopoli directly whether the Caps and Impact would be eligible for the CCL if they were playing in a non-recognized league. He pretty much came out and directly said no: http://www.24thminute.com/2009/12/concacaf-champions-league-eligibility.html

It's also becoming increasingly clear that the NASL group is in a whole lot of trouble when it comes to USSF sanctioning. And the CSA ain't keen on stepping up to fil that role: http://www.24thminute.com/2009/12/nasl-in-trouble-csa-not-ready-to-bail.html

As far as I understood, the CCL place for Canada goes to the winner of the Voyageurs Cup. What difference does it make what other league the teams play in?

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

No, I think it goes the other way: the CSA only decided to organize a national championship when TFC was on the scene. It had nothing to do with Concacaf. Fifa doesn't work that way Richard, I mean I was exagerrating in my first post, for sure, but basically anything a national FA sanctions within reasonable limits will be respected by Concacaf for ConcaChampions.

Your right the CSA never asked to send a team to the Concacaf championships ... for a lot of historical reasons, and your right the CSA can do pretty much as it wishes as long as it delvers cash and its votes to FIFA and our friend from the Island of Trinidad ( and no I am not talking about Mr. Hart ).

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

As far as I understood, the CCL place for Canada goes to the winner of the Voyageurs Cup. What difference does it make what other league the teams play in?

The winner of the Voyageurs Cup will be the Canadian champions. Nothing changes there.

However, the Canadian representative in the CONCACAF Champions League must be in a recognized and sanctioned league. So, if Montreal or Vancouver were to win, as it stands, they would not be eligible to move on.

FIFA requires that here be eight teams in a league before it can be recognized. The V-Cup is not a "league" as some here have suggested. It's a cup tournament.

There may be loopholes that the CSA could use to make sure the clubs were recognized – or the spot could just be handed to TFC ( NOTE – I am not advocating for that), but it will take some effort on its part.

I asked Montopoli if the CSA could sanction Vancouver and Montreal as independent clubs. He came back by saying that they were "welcome to apply for sanctioning after they have found a league.

CONCACAF is the wildcard here. I'm not trying to be alarmist, but they could pull the spot altogether if things don't change. I don't think they will -- Canada has really taken to the tournament -- but do you really want things hanging on the whims of CONCACAF?

This has been a concern of mine since this whole mess started. Nothing Montopoli said to Monday reassured me.

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by Trillium

Your right the CSA never asked to send a team to the Concacaf championships ... for a lot of historical reasons, and your right the CSA can do pretty much as it wishes as long as it delvers cash and its votes to FIFA and our friend from the Island of Trinidad ( and no I am not talking about Mr. Hart ).

Canadian clubs, amateur teams, did pplay twice in the CONCACAF club championships in the 1970s.

[Eric]

^ What amateur clubs were they?

[TFCRegina]

Does anyone else think SuperLiga should be expanded into a virtual "Europa League" of CONCACAF?

As it stands right now, it's a big joke. If we had a Champions League and an Americas League it'd be kinda cool and would offer more opportunities to have our teams playing against competition from across the region.

[TFCRegina]

Does anyone else think SuperLiga should be expanded into a virtual "Europa League" of CONCACAF?

As it stands right now, it's a big joke. If we had a Champions League and an Americas League it'd be kinda cool and would offer more opportunities to have our teams playing against competition from across the region.

[Lord Bob]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

^ What amateur clubs were they?

The Serbian White Eagles and Toronto Italia each went once, if memory serves me right.

[Lord Bob]

quote:Originally posted by Eric

^ What amateur clubs were they?

The Serbian White Eagles and Toronto Italia each went once, if memory serves me right.

[Eric]

^ Right, but those clubs were not amateur back then.

[piltdownman]

The money from SuperLiga flows into SUM and not CONCACAF. I'm sure CONCACAF would want control of it, but there is no benifit for SUM to give up this control.