July 29: TFC vs. Puerto Rico Islanders (R)

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

They lost because the team simply wasn't good enough. Add one or two different players and the chances are the team would still have failed because one player does not a TEAM make and the TEAM was just not good enough. Get it, I can't state it much more simply Rudi, sage or otherwise?

I'm fully convinced that you're writing these incredibly dense posts solely to irritate and bait for responses, so I'm done with you.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

On a night where TFC dominated the possession like that I believe someone like Guevara could've been a difference maker with his playmaking abilities.

Despite having most of the possession (what are the stats BTW? 65 %?) Toronto wasn't able to generate good chances from the middle of the field. That's where Guevara usually excels.

You can't say if Guevara had played TFC would've won but you can say that he would've definitely helped the team in an area where they struggled all night long. They were too predictable with those attacks from the wings and a little bit of diversity could've helped exposing PR defense a little bit more.

Precisely.

The Montreal fans stated after that infamous 6-1 game that had Jordan been in net instead of Djekanovic, that TFC likely still would have won, but Montreal probably wouldn't have given up so many goal.

I didn't see Richard jump in lecturing them that one keeper wouldn't have made a difference because it was the TEAM that lost 6-1. Yet here he is stubbornly saying exactly that about Toronto and the absence of Guevara, which leads me to conclude that Richard is trolling.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

I'm fully convinced that you're writing these incredibly dense posts solely to irritate and bait for responses, so I'm done with you.

Good because I am pretty much done with you and your total inability to comprehend simple English, or more likely unwillingness to accept your team was just not good enough on the night.

Montreal's rollover and die performance against TFC was so disgusting it was beyond belief and not worthy of comment. At least TFC was trying against PRI, they were simply not good enough to win.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Good because I am pretty much done with you and your total inability to comprehend simple English, or more likely unwillingness to accept your team was just not good enough on the night.

Montreal's rollover and die performance against TFC was so disgusting it was beyond belief and not worthy of comment. At least TFC was trying against PRI, they were simply not good enough to win.

You could still recognize that the absence of Guevara was a key point in the game because of TFC inability to generate good scoring opportunities from the middle of the park.

[Mr.Impact]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

On a night where TFC dominated the possession like that I believe someone like Guevara could've been a difference maker with his playmaking abilities.

Despite having most of the possession (what are the stats BTW? 65 %?) Toronto wasn't able to generate good chances from the middle of the field. That's where Guevara usually excels.

You can't say if Guevara had played TFC would've won but you can say that he would've definitely helped the team in an area where they struggled all night long. They were too predictable with those attacks from the wings and a little bit of diversity could've helped exposing PR defense a little bit more.

I disagree. You won't beat Puerto Rico down the middle. Guevara might have helped, but his temper might also have gotten the better of him. Puerto Rico is a very frustrating team to play against. When you get professionally fouled a few times, you tend to lose your concentration, and we all know that Guevara isn't the most cerebral of the bunch to begin with.

Jason Devos got it right when he said that you have to keep pounding balls into the box, and get Gaudette off his line. Thats how you're going to wear down PR's defence.

Also I have to agree with Gian Luca in that Carl Robinson is wayyyy over paid for the role that he has on this team. ($315,000/year). Tyler Hemming his having a great year with Charleston of USL-1, playing a similar role. He could probably be had for 1/5 of what they're paying Carl Robinson. His only problem is that he happens to be Canadian, and we all know how Mo feels about Canadians.

[loyola]

Well, from what I've seen Gaudette seems like a more than capable keeper on crosses. I doubt it's the only way to go.

I agree that PR seemed like a very well organized team at the back and tough to get through but everytime you can add a dimension to your attack it will make it tougher for the defense to stop you.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

You could still recognize that the absence of Guevara was a key point in the game because of TFC inability to generate good scoring opportunities from the middle of the park.

That would require Richard admitting he was wrong, which I doubt he knows how to do given he has likely never done so his entire life.

I said:

I didn't even suggest that Guevara's presence would have led to a TFC win. All I suggested was that Guevara would be a big help to TFC in trying to break down a bunker.

I've yet to hear from you how I was wrong by saying such a thing.

Despite (partially) quoting this in one of his posts above, he still hasn't responded directly to this, and won't ever, because it's Richard's M.O. to be the contrarian, no matter the subject or how wrong he is.

So instead, he'll tell me all about other stuff, instead of answering me directly. It's maddeningly frustrating, but I've come to the conclusion that that's what he's aiming for.

TFC has a game tomorrow and Tuesday. I'm moving on from this thread for my own sanity's sake.

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

TFC has a game tomorrow and Tuesday. I'm moving on from this thread for my own sanity's sake.

So your saying your sanity is being compromised or that emotionally you are on edge ?

Ah football fanatics.. such an interesting disease, now if TFC rack up two losses what will happen ?

Seriously I hope TFC does win in PR, I want to see a good run in the CCL, hopefully being able to go to a hot weather game in the middle of winter.

[canucklefan]

I wouldn't mind to see key players such as Gerba and DeRo on the bench tomorrow. They should be ready for tuesday and seeing the usual substitutes tomorrow against NE would be a great thing.

[tmcmurph]

quote:Originally posted by canucklefan

I wouldn't mind to see key players such as Gerba and DeRo on the bench tomorrow. They should be ready for tuesday and seeing the usual substitutes tomorrow against NE would be a great thing.

Not a chance. They need the 3 points badly and will play their starters to get it. It is a divisional game that has playoff implications.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

As many fans I am pissed about this result, crappy. It is not only that they should go further than this round, just think what sort of great competitive matches they give to the fans if they do. I mean Cruz Azul at BMO is a hot competitive match, one of the most important competitive club matches to be played in Canada in the last few decades, maybe since NASL.

Definitely hoping PR is forced to play a bit more in front of their fans and that opening up gives TFC the room they need to get the goals.

[Richard]

Nothing would please me more than to see TFC win their way into the CCL round robin stage but on current performance I am not optimistic.

[canucklefan]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Nothing would please me more than to see TFC win their way into the CCL round robin stage but on current performance I am not optimistic.

Everything TFC needs is a win. It's not that bad, if they can't win in PR then TFC doesn't deserve to play in CCL.

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

You could still recognize that the absence of Guevara was a key point in the game because of TFC inability to generate good scoring opportunities from the middle of the park.

Fact remains TFC was not good enough on the night to score more goals than PRI, one additional player might, just might, have made a difference but I really doubt it based on all the other games I have watched. One player does not a team make - your argument is simply not convincing. Besides any club that is so dependent upon one player out of a 20+ roster has a real problem anyway.

[john tv]

They have that MLSE desease which could be a very interesting subject.Anyway never mind that team,it seems that rain is just as big a fan as I am and in fact bigger.We need:

more washrooms

grass

roof

larger stadium

cheaper beer etc

better scouting staff

one magic dp

anything else guys?

[Michael Crampton]

quote:Originally posted by canucklefan

if they can't win in PR then TFC doesn't deserve to play in CCL.

That's a not unreasonable statement that I can completely agree with.

TFC has far from an impossible mountain to climb and, Grizzly's typical baiting aside, NOTHING I saw from the Islanders makes me think that they're better than TFC. If TFC can't get the job done I wouldn't want to see them have to play Saprissa and Cruz Azul.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Fact remains TFC was not good enough on the night to score more goals than PRI, one additional player might, just might, have made a difference but I really doubt it based on all the other games I have watched. One player does not a team make - your argument is simply not convincing. Besides any club that is so dependent upon one player out of a 20+ roster has a real problem anyway.

Well, clearly you haven't seen Guevara played. Probsbly one of TFC best players this season and playing at a position TFC looked weak last week.

No one is saying TFC is dependent on Guevara, they can win without him for sure but the way the game was played showed that he could've made a difference in the attack. It's not perfect science but it's a fair comment to make and if I remember correctly DeVos said something similar during the game about Guebara missing.

[Richard]

Maybe they can win without Guevara, but they couldn't against PRI nor Saturday against New England. Of course I've seen TFC play with Guevara, granted on TV since I live in Vancouver, but he's not the magician some people make him out to be. TFC strikes me as a team that is generally lacking in the 'desire to win' department.

[SoccerfanatiQ]

Totaly agree with you there Richard , Ithink that the differance with PRI , they really want to win. They've beatten Cruz Azul at home last year.

[loyola]

TFC 17 shots on goal were just for fun....

If every game played on this planet was to be analyzed by Richard the losers would always be categorized as not trying enough or "lacking in the desire to win department".

I thought TFC worked hard against PR but weren't creative enough and that's what cost them with a little lapse in concentration from their keeper. There wasn't a lot seperating the 2 teams, I guess it came down to both keepers play.

[Richard]

"weren't creative enough and .... little lapse in concentration from their keeper..."

117 shots on/at goal and none go in and you lose, not one counts. Might as well have been 500 shots, means the same. These are relatively highly paid professional athletes not kids in the park on the weekend. I expect more from them in terms of effort, concentration, cohesion and basic skills than I am seeing game after game.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

"weren't creative enough and .... little lapse in concentration from their keeper..."

17 shots on/at goal and none go in and you lose, not one counts. Might as well have been 500 shots, means the same. These are relatively highly paid professional athletes not kids in the park on the weekend. I expect more from them in terms of effort, concentration, cohesion and basic skills than I am seeing game after game.

So, your claim that they didn't have the desire to win is base on the fact they didn't score? Pretty simple analysis. If TFC had looked disinterested and had only 4-5 shots on goal I would probably agree with you but that wasn't the case.

As for the "they are pro" argument, do you realize that both teams are "pro"? Sometimes a lot of pro teams in a lot of sports lose a game when they were working hard and cared about the game, that's sport. Sometimes in pro sports pro players have mental lapses and the best have it (Zidane might be the best example of all in soccer). That's pro sports and it doesn't mean players are lacking desire to win. Just look at TFC Chad Barrett, a poor poor finisher, but a player who care a lot and who's working hard every game.

I thought the TFC-PR game was a hard fought battle where both teams did all they could to get a a favourable result. The lack of finishing is the reason why TFC lost not because of a lack of desire.

[Cheeta]

^ To my mind they weren't mentally prepared for the task at hand and payed the price. Sloppy, almost lazy 1st half. Very poor. If you want to spot your opponent the 1st 45 minutes don't complain when things don't work out in the last 45. And I say this even though I think I'm one of the least cynical about how close TFC were to winning that match, lazy 1st half or no.

If a few players show up tomorrow a bit sharper in the head and more urgent in the feet (not everyone, some players had a great match) I think TFC can still go to the group stage. It could get wild Tuesday.

[Mr.Impact]

I'm looking forward to the march up in coaching stratagies between Chris Cummins and Nick Dasovic vs. Colin Clarke and Adrian Whitbread. TFC has to find a way to break down that wall. Puerto Rico on the other hand, has to find a way to keep the game scorless as long as possible, and then look for the counter.

[Macksam]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

They lost because the team simply wasn't good enough. Add one or two different players and the chances are the team would still have failed because one player does not a TEAM make and the TEAM was just not good enough. Get it, I can't state it much more simply Rudi, sage or otherwise?

We weren't good enough, but we were definately better than PR. It was just unlucky for the most part. PR didn't look threatening what so ever apart from the goal. TFC could've scored three goals if they just had the bounces go there way. That's what most of the guys here are saying. If both teams played like that again, nine times out of ten we would win.