July 29: TFC vs. Puerto Rico Islanders (R)

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by MexTFC

Does anyone have thoughts on the best way for TFC to play against PR? If you were CC, what strategy would you use?

Play your game and let PRI worry about what they are going to do.

[Tuscan]

^ I agree. They need to make lots of use on the wings, see if they can give DeRo space. He played in the CCL last year with Huston, and he was one of their better players throughoutt the competition. Now that he's playing for his home club I'm sure the slight bit of extra motivation must be there for him.

I assume they will rest Frei and go with Edwards. Edwards showed he is capable last night against River Plate's reserve side (unless it's a penalty []). I hope they aren't foolish enough to rest a ton of players. Puerto Rico showed last year that they are not to be taken lightly. If CC and Dasovic put out foolish line-ups, TFC will be going home early from the competition.

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by Tuscan

I assume they will rest Frei and go with Edwards.

I'm no keeper so forgive the possibly heretical question, but how much rest does a keeper need, really? Especially a 23 year-old one.

I figured they gave Edwards a start last night because it was as good an opportunity as any to get him some quality minutes and shake off the rust rather than for the specific reason of giving Frei a rest.

I hope TFC go all out for this one.

[Tuscan]

I saw TFC starting Edwards last night as a sign they are planning on using him in upcoming games. As Frei is the #1 I assume he will be starting in the league games and Edwards will be getting the starts vs. Puerto Rico. If Frei and co. all start vs. PRI, it will definitely signal TFC's intent on going deep into the competition (which they'd be crazy not to go for regardless).

[Lord Bob]

I think Edwards probably just played to give him some match practice in case Frei injures himself. I wouldn't read into it.

[TFCRegina]

This team is better than a lot of the MLS sides. Puerto Rico is stacked with ex-MLSers who made the mistake of being greedy and getting cut for this. The Manager is solid as well. TFC needs to bury PR at home and then go back to PR and fight for a draw.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by TFCRegina

TFC needs to bury PR at home and then go back to PR and fight for a win.

FYP.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by TFCRegina

This team is better than a lot of the MLS sides. Puerto Rico is stacked with ex-MLSers who made the mistake of being greedy and getting cut for this. The Manager is solid as well. TFC needs to bury PR at home and then go back to PR and fight for a draw.

The ex-MLS players of Puerto Rico didn't get cut because they were greedy but left the league in favour of USL because MLS doesn't pay well throughout its payroll and is very top heavy salary wise. This is what MLS will have to correct if it is to become a true 1st division and the reason why USL teams are competitive with MLS teams and often beat them. If MLS raises its salary cap a million and uses that million to pay the 7th to 20th player they will then be far superior to USL and have some parity and depth in their teams.

I think this tie is 50/50. TFC has more star players but the Islanders are more solid throughout the lineup and play better as a team. They also have a better coach than TFC in Colin Clarke (the guy I hope the Impact will hire if they ever fire NDS).

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by leafdolfan

Would you personally rather have TFC win the MLS Cup of the Champions League?

My Personal choice: Champions Cup

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

The ex-MLS players of Puerto Rico didn't get cut because they were greedy but left the league in favour of USL because MLS doesn't pay well throughout its payroll and is very top heavy salary wise. This is what MLS will have to correct if it is to become a true 1st division and the reason why USL teams are competitive with MLS teams and often beat them. If MLS raises its salary cap a million and uses that million to pay the 7th to 20th player they will then be far superior to USL and have some parity and depth in their teams.

I think this tie is 50/50. TFC has more star players but the Islanders are more solid throughout the lineup and play better as a team. They also have a better coach than TFC in Colin Clarke (the guy I hope the Impact will hire if they ever fire NDS).

A question for you Grizzly - How many TFC players do you think make less than $50,000? Without looking it up, answer here. I'll post the correct figure later.

Here is a list of seven TFC players that do not see much time. How many do you think would be out of place in USL? Give your reasons.

Brian Edwards

Gabe Gala

Emmanuel Gomez

Frad Ibrahim

Amadou Sanyang

Marco Velez

O’Brian White

[Cheeta]

You know I wouldn't be surprised if the Big Heads upstairs at BMO Field are super keen on CCL. They are in effect two matches away from going into the group stage of the touney.

They're within reach of bringing 3 playoff matches to BMO against international clubs. Bit of prestege attached to that. Especially as the MLS playoffs aren't a sure thing just yet. And regardless of what happens with MLS this year, should TFC fall short of making the playoffs or stumble in them,a CCL group stage appearance can easily be spun in a very positive fashion.

As to PR, fu'k em. Cummins should get the lads to pin the ears back and just go right at them. See how they well they handle that.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

A question for you Grizzly - How many TFC players do you think make less than $50,000? Without looking it up, answer here. I'll post the correct figure later.

Here is a list of seven TFC players that do not see much time. How many do you think would be out of place in USL? Give your reasons.

Brian Edwards

Gabe Gala

Emmanuel Gomez

Frad Ibrahim

Amadou Sanyang

Marco Velez

O’Brian White

Not here to play your games. According to the salary figures released at the start of the year TFC has 6 players under $50 000. 5 between $50 000 and $100 000 and 10 above $100 000. If you include Gomez and Sanyang then it would be 8 under $50 000. New England for example has 11 players under $50 000 and two others only slightly above it. KC also has 11 under $50 000.

Of your list I think Edwards and Gala would be good USL players but then again they could both be MLS starters as well. Velez was a crap player in USL and is a crap player in MLS. The others I haven't seen play. On the other hand how many TFC players would be above USL level? I would only say in order of ability Guevara, Serioux, DeRo and Frei. Maybe Dichio and Brennan but both are starting to slow down. Certainly some others would be good to very good USL players but I am talking about those who are a cut above USL and there are not that many. In talking about the level of USL I am of course not considering Austin, Cleveland and Minnesota who are really below the level of the rest of the league this year.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

I'm not playing any games. There are five players that make less than $50,000 - And that includes the Gambians and Brian Edwards, who makes $1,500 less than $50,000. Plus one of TFC's poverty line guys -- Nana -- is a regular starter. It's that second column you have to look at Grizz. That’s how much they actually take home.

On a top end USL roster there are 4-5 guys that could play cover roles on most MLS teams. MAYBE 1-2 of those could start. How many USL players make more than $50,000?

My point is here that your thinking is flawed. The bottom 10 guys on TFC make as much, if not more, than the majority of guys on a USL-1 team.

[Grizzly]

If that is the case then why have quite a number of MLS players left in favour of USL? Several have stated publicly that they got better offers from the USL than MLS. As TFCRegina rightly pointed out, Puerto Rico is full of former MLS players and you will see next week that they have the quality to play MLS. A lot of guys at that salary level will prefer USL to MLS even if USL is only offering $10 000 a year more. If MLS teams were to offer these players $10 000 more than USL the overall level of MLS would improve dramatically. New England alone has 9 players making under $35 000 even in the 2nd column. As I have said before MLS is top heavy and spends most of its money on the top players and much less on the suporting cast. Looking at the TFC salary figures though one certainly sees that they are really overpaying a lot of players compared to what they contribute on the field though Nana is a bargain at $34 000 and Gala would be as well if they ever played him.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

If that is the case then why have quite a number of MLS players left in favour of USL?

I would like you to provide me a list of these players.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

If that is the case then why have quite a number of MLS players left in favour of USL? Several have stated publicly that they got better offers from the USL than MLS. As TFCRegina rightly pointed out, Puerto Rico is full of former MLS players and you will see next week that they have the quality to play MLS.

Have you looked at the list of former MLSers Puerto Rico has on their team?

Only Dominic Mediate got anything close to regular playing time when he was in DC, and even he was hardly a standout. It's obvious that they joined PR for playing time and not just for money (although I hope Kyle Veris makes more at PR than he did in LA).

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Have you looked at the list of former MLSers Puerto Rico has on their team?

Only Dominic Mediate got anything close to regular playing time when he was in DC, and even he was hardly a standout. It's obvious that they joined PR for playing time and not just for money (although I hope Kyle Veris makes more at PR than he did in LA).

Yes but where I criticize the MLS is the starters from 7 to 11 and the depth players. A very typical scenario is a young player joins an MLS team, makes peanuts, shows that he has decent skills after a couple of years and then gets a better offer from a USL team and goes there. The MLS team is then forced to hire a similar inexperienced guy and the cycle repeats instead of the player staying with the team and getting more and more playing time in the following years. If the MLS is going to claim it is the top tier league in North America then it should be the number one address for all players that have the ability to play in the league. The USL is full of players who are of MLS calibre, they might not be the top starters and some would be only depth players but many are better than those fulfilling the roles right now.

I don't have the time or interest to make MediaGuy a list of all the players but off the top of my head a few examples are Justin Moose who said in an interview he asked DC United to release him so he could sign a better contract with the Caps (DCU tried to work out some loan deal but it didn't work so they let him go). Our own Matt Jordan had a number of MLS offers this summer but did not find them adequate to leave the Impact. In TFC's case they wanted to keep both Rosenlund and Hemming but couldn't offer them a decent salary due to cap restrictions and various MLS rules (a senior member of management told me this personally) and both turned down their offer. If they can't keep the players they want to keep then there is a problem with the current system. These are some of the reasons why the playing level of MLS is not where it should be and certainly not where the MLS claims it to be. It is also why USL teams are quite competitive with MLS teams and MG will be pleased to see the USL teams were once again very competitive in this year's Open Cup.

[Tuscan]

Why hasn't Puerto Rico pursued MLS expansion yet? They are obviously one of the top sides of USL every year (at least since I've been paying attention and I'm awesome so that time period is all that matters), and have the fan support to offer a positive club to the MLS mix. Why have they stayed in USL-1 for so long? Surely there must be some incentive in going from USL-1 to MLS aside from giving the local community a 'top tier' team?

[Grizzly]

Actually they do not have the fan support to go MLS. They have only drawn over 5 000 once this year for the season opener. One game they got barely over 2 000. Attendance is usually between 2 500 and 4 000. Playoff and CCL attendance is usually better but I would have major doubts how long such attendance could be sustained. Soccer is not the number 1 sport in Puerto Rico. Plus their stadium only seats 12 500 and while expandable is a converted baseball stadium that would need major renovations to turn it into a proper soccer stadium.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

[

I don't have the time or interest to make MediaGuy a list of all the players but off the top of my head a few examples are...

So instead of looking for facts to back-up your thinking, you are going to point to anecdotal evidence (which ignores the fact that the majority of players that go from MLS to USL were cut by the MLS team?

Let me put this to you bluntly. The 11-20 players on USL rosters are NOT better than the 11-20 players on MLS rosters. This idea that there are tonnes of guys who are stuck in USL because of the MLS cap and roster rules is pure fallacy. At best, there are several players that are interchangeable (only because they are older, with less promise, than the MLS player in a similar position).

Maybe I'll put the list together today so we can end this ridiculous urban myth once and for all.

[Cheeta]

quote:Originally posted by Tuscan

Why hasn't Puerto Rico pursued MLS expansion yet? They are obviously one of the top sides of USL every year (at least since I've been paying attention and I'm awesome so that time period is all that matters), and have the fan support to offer a positive club to the MLS mix. Why have they stayed in USL-1 for so long? Surely there must be some incentive in going from USL-1 to MLS aside from giving the local community a 'top tier' team?

Fan support has been awesome? I'll be honest with you, I was under the impression the PR wasn't exactly a football hot-bed. I'm sure they've got their share of dedicated footie fans but is there really enough of them out there to be drawn into supporting an MLS franchise. At twice or more the ticket prices? Don't know.

And who's going to pay the expansion fee? Blah, blah, blah, and all the other usual financing arguments.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

It is also why USL teams are quite competitive with MLS teams and MG will be pleased to see the USL teams were once again very competitive in this year's Open Cup.

What's your definition of very competitive?

USL teams were 4W, 7L versus MLS teams in this year's Open Cup, and managed to get one team into the semifinal. All four of those wins came in the third round where MLS teams play their complete second XI. There were no USL wins over MLS in the quarterfinal or semifinal.

Houston and DC cruised through the competition playing almost all reserves. Houston eventually lost to Seattle (still with largely a reserve side), but they were not troubled by Austin (admittedly a terrible USL-1 side) and they pasted Charleston (the current co-leader of USL1) in Charleston 4-0 while starting nine reserve players.

I realize Houston is the top team in MLS, but I wouldn't have mentioned them had they not walloped the co-leader of USL-1 with such ease. I can only imagine what would have happened had they started Pat Onstad, Wade Barrett, Richard Mulrooney, Craig Waibel, Brad Davis, Brian Mullan, Ricardo Clark, Stuart Holden and Brian Ching.

[jonovision]

MLS sides also lost to two USL-2 teams. I don't know MLS rosters well enough to judge the strengh of sides, but the lineup fielded by Chicago in their loss to Wilmington contains at least 4 or 5 names that I recognized from a match against TFC earlier this year.

CHICAGO FIRE: GK-Andrew Dykstra, D-Brandon Prideaux (Tim Ward 29), D-Bakary Soumare, D-Daniel Woolard, D-Austin Washington (Marco Pappa 68), M-Mike Banner, M-Baggio Husidic, M-Peter Lowry (Chris Rolfe 76), M-Justin Mapp, F-Patrick Nyarko, F-Stefan Dimitrov.

Ward, Soumare, Pappa, Nyarko, Rolfe, Mapp and Prideaux and Woolard are all among the top 15 minute-getters for the Fire this season. This may be an anomaly, but I imagine some of the other losing MLS sides fielded comparable lineups in terms of starters vs reserves.

As another example, 9 of the starters for Chivas USA in their 3-1 loss to Charleston are among the top 15 in minutes for that team.

These are the only examples I have investigated so far.

Surely some MLS teams that have lost to lower division sides may not have fielded their best XI. But the idea that they only lose when they are not taking the competition (or the opposition) seriously is a total myth and a weak one at that.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by jonovision

Surely some MLS teams that have lost to lower division sides may not have fielded their best XI. But the idea that they only lose when they are not taking the competition (or the opposition) seriously is a total myth and a weak one at that.

It is generally the case, no matter how "weak" you think it is.

Of course some MLS teams have lost when all things were equal, that's the game. It happens all over the world.

That said, the majority of MLS losses to lower division sides in the US Open Cup have come when the MLS side (rightly or wrongly) have taken the competition lightly by playing their scrubs.

You cannot simply discount the fact that all four MLS losses this year to lower sides came in the first round that MLS enters the competition, which is when they generally use the Cup fixtures as a glorified reserve league.

I don't agree with MLS teams when they do that, in fact I wish they would respect their national cup more than they do. That said, I can see why they do, considering the small rosters.

[TFCRegina]

USL didn't have a single home game against an MLS team in the Open Cup guys. And it's not a home and home series. Saying USL isn't as good based off of their 4W, 7L record in the Open Cup is a joke. Home ground goes to the side that pays more.