July 29: TFC vs. Puerto Rico Islanders (R)

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

So instead of looking for facts to back-up your thinking, you are going to point to anecdotal evidence (which ignores the fact that the majority of players that go from MLS to USL were cut by the MLS team?

Let me put this to you bluntly. The 11-20 players on USL rosters are NOT better than the 11-20 players on MLS rosters. This idea that there are tonnes of guys who are stuck in USL because of the MLS cap and roster rules is pure fallacy. At best, there are several players that are interchangeable (only because they are older, with less promise, than the MLS player in a similar position).

Maybe I'll put the list together today so we can end this ridiculous urban myth once and for all.

I would concure with this. A few years back there was anecdotal evidence that Gabriel Gervais made 50K playing for the Impact. And, at the same time was employed (I believe that he has a degree in Engineering) for one of Saputo's other business interests in the off-season. You wont find anything out there in regards to USL salaries but the general consensus is that Gervais's situation was some sort of benchmark or standard for USL deals for players. Also, he was talented and fixture on the backline and also earned some call up for Canada. So that 50k was not paid for entirely from club's soccer operations but other parts of the company business. So for other players less talented player, what is the salary they'd get from just playing for the club? and can you live off of that salary by just playing soccer?

Most of the Lynx players that we knew of had supplemental interest such as teaching in high schools or playing in the indoor leagues in the off-season. Furthermore there were the variety coaching clinic that were the staple of club and for which you can imagine paid a substantial sum to the club and player. So players in USL strike me more as independent contractors, with different things always on the go, and whereby your salary from soccer alone is not enough to support you. And I do believe that that salary by Gervais was a standard.

For further proof, i would refer to Grant Wahl's (the Beckham experiment) recent book whereby it was stated that Alan Gordon ( a standout in USL BTW with Portland)was earning in that 30-40K range with the galaxy. As a result, he was living in an appartment with two other teammates and was coaching a kids team and had to travel great distances to get there because he needed that extra income to survive. But when they boosted his salary to something like 79K, then he moved out and got his own place and quite the kids coaching job that he had on the side. Hence, if good USL salaries were anywhere near the 50K range, then why did he leave Portland to begin with? Recall that Portland was one of the more successfully run clubs in USL. And why is it that he no longer needed the extra income when he hit 70K benchmark? And, finally we are talking about a recognizable name from his days in USL.

Some other facts. USL gate attendances are about a third that of MLS. Take that MLS salary cap number and multiply by a third Or if you think that its better in places like Montreal and Rochester, take 50% as number. Then Consider sponsorships and advertising. Just looking at it visually and look at the shear number of sponsors that you see MLS versus the USL and then look at type of sponsors. USL sponsors tend to be very local and the advertising expenditures is always going to be affected by crowd size and audience. Most MLS sponsors tend to be international companies with a world wide reach. So even if you want to be generous to the USL, lets say that its a further one third that of MLS. Now what number do you come up with? divide that by 20 players. See what kind of number you come up with for a salary budget and per player. You can boost a bit given that some USL markets like Montreal and Rochester draw better but not by that much and consider the number of give away tickets.

So I come with something like 10-25K.

Conclusion, it looks to me that just about every player in the USL would jump at the opportunity to earn even 50K in one season. and there is no way that an MLS club couldn't fit that kind of salary under the cap if it's a player that they really want and feel can improve their team. And if that's the case, then how can someone suggest that the MLS salary structure keeps USL players from moving up unless one believes professionally run clubs are not interested in improving and/or that individual professionals in a capitalist society are not interested in making more money.

PS.: there are some many other factors that I left out in in my calculations that I could have added but I dont feel like writing book.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by TFCRegina

USL didn't have a single home game against an MLS team in the Open Cup guys. And it's not a home and home series. Saying USL isn't as good based off of their 4W, 7L record in the Open Cup is a joke. Home ground goes to the side that pays more.

I'm saying USL isn't as good based on 14 years of evidence. The current Open Cup was brought up by someone else.

And what do you mean USL didn't have a single home game against an MLS team in the Open Cup? I mentioned Houston's win in Charleston, and in fact, three of the four of USL victories over MLS sides took place in the USL side's home stadium:

Chicago Fire 0-1 Wilmington Hammerheads (Legion Stadium. Wilmington, NC)

Columbus Crew 1-1 (AET/PSO) Rochester Rhinos (Marina Auto Stadium. Rochester, NY)

Chivas USA 1-3 Charleston Battery (Blackbaud Stadium. Charleston, SC)

A quick look at the US Open Cup site shows that six of the eight MLS-USL matchups in the third round (the first round MLS enters the competition) were hosted by the USL side.

In total, there were 11 MLS-USL matchups this year, and seven were hosted by USL sides.

Why would MLS teams who don't take the US Open Cup seriously want to outbid their opponents for the right to host the games?

[youllneverwalkalone]

It seems quite obvious to me that the current MLS cap limits the depth of the clubs and can contibute to upsets and early exits in the cups. Clearly there are top players in the USL who could be depth players in MLS. I did some work for the Football Manager series, and was given a file at the beginning of the '08 season with salary information on the Caps which was deemed to be reliable. The range for the first team players was between $50-100k. The market would dictate that many of these players are going to be better than the MLSers making less than $50k. Granted, Kerfoot likely over pays somewhat in order to get a full-time commitment from his players.

[canucklefan]

Regarding next game against PR, and possibly three other games at BMO Field, I hope BMO turf will have a negative impact on PR and the opponents who aren't familiar with artificial turf. I was surprised that TFC dominated River Plate last week and maybe BMO turf didn't favour River Plate's game as they probably played on artificial turf for the first time in their lives.

[Mr.Impact]

quote:Originally posted by canucklefan

Regarding next game against PR, and possibly three other games at BMO Field, I hope BMO turf will have a negative impact on PR and the opponents who aren't familiar with artificial turf. I was surprised that TFC dominated River Plate last week and maybe BMO turf didn't favour River Plate's game as they probably played on artificial turf for the first time in their lives.

Puerto Rico also plays on Turf, and it's better quality then the crap they play on at BMO. River Plate if you can call it that, was really their youth team.

[tmcmurph]

PRI rested a lot of their starters including their goalie last night against Vancouver. Paid for it with a 4-2 loss as well but they will have their 'A' game ready for you guys. Bring your 'A' game as well and you should win.

Watch out for PRI's speed. They have some very fast players.

[canucklefan]

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Impact

Puerto Rico also plays on Turf, and it's better quality then the crap they play on at BMO. River Plate if you can call it that, was really their youth team.

That's something I couldn't check, River's line up against TFC, but I could recognize at least, Fabianni in attack (a last year starter), also the return of Ortega. Also I was expecting to see Falcao but I've just learned he's now a FC Porto player. Anyway, I can garantee you that Fabiani and Ortega are key players for River Plate.

[RS]

So Nana Attakora is out for the match on Wednesday, and Serioux and Guevara are 'doubtful'

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090727&content_id=6087302&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

[MexTFC]

If Guevara does not play, TFC is going to have a tough time of it, unless Vitti can step up in that role. If PR bunkers, I suspect TFC will try and attack down the flanks. With DeRo attacking which ever back seems weaker on film.

[michaeltfc91]

---------------------Frei

-----Velez------Wynne-----Garcia------Brennan-----

-------------Cronin--------Robinson---------------

-------Barrett----De Rosiario----Vitti------------

--------------------Gerba

- I switched Velez and Wynne because we need a fast center back for this game from what I'm hearing

- Only useful sub now is Dichio

- Gomez, Ibrahim, White, Gala, Edwards, Sanyang are our only other subs due to injuries and are all WAY too young and inexperienced to play

[MexTFC]

quote:Originally posted by michaeltfc91

---------------------Frei

-----Velez------Wynne-----Garcia------Brennan-----

-------------Cronin--------Robinson---------------

-------Barrett----De Rosiario----Vitti------------

--------------------Gerba

- I switched Velez and Wynne because we need a fast center back for this game from what I'm hearing

- Only useful sub now is Dichio

- Gomez, Ibrahim, White, Gala, Edwards, Sanyang are our only other subs due to injuries and are all WAY too young and inexperienced to play

Sorry, not sure what happened to my previous post.

Anyways, from what I have seen, when TFC plays a bunker/counter team like this, CC likes to put DeRo on the wing. So I think you will see Vitti play the central role.

[RS]

No way does Wynne play centre back on Wednesday.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

No way does Wynne play centre back on Wednesday.

That could be the scariest suggestion I've ever heard.

[Sam]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

No way does Wynne play centre back on Wednesday.

I don't think I've ever seen such a technically poor player rated as highly as Wynne. The guy has a lot of pace and is an exceptional athlete, but on the ball and defending wise the guy is sub par.

[michaeltfc91]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

That could be the scariest suggestion I've ever heard.

What happened to everyone being scared about their speedy strikers?

With Velez and Garcia playing center back there is no speed and they will get beat. Play Wynne as a center back when defending so he can defend the fast guys. If Puerto Rico uses tall strikers, play Velez and Garcia at CB.

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by michaeltfc91

What happened to everyone being scared about their speedy strikers?

With Velez and Garcia playing center back there is no speed and they will get beat. Play Wynne as a center back when defending so he can defend the fast guys. If Puerto Rico uses tall strikers, play Velez and Garcia at CB.

PR's strikers range from 5'10'' to 6' 1'' so reasonably tall and all are fast. The 6' 1'' guy is Nick Addlery who didn't do much with the Caps but has been pretty good since joining PR both in CCL and the USL (not to mention that he went out drinking and womanizing with Grizzly once ). He has 4 goals in 14 USL games. Their leading scorer, however, is not a striker but defender Cristian Arrieta who is 6' 2'' and has 7 goals in 21 games. BTW this is the guy who PRI replaced Velez with and who I mentioned as a big upgrade on Velez in some of our USL/MLS comparison threads. He is a far better player than Velez and has played Serie B in Italy. That is what happens when you have a competent guy like Colin Clarke in charge of your team instead of an incompetent like Mo Johnson or Nick De Santis.

[nolando]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

PR's strikers range from 5'10'' to 6' 1'' so reasonably tall and all are fast. The 6' 1'' guy is Nick Addlery who didn't do much with the Caps but has been pretty good since joining PR both in CCL and the USL (not to mention that he went out drinking and womanizing with Grizzly once ).

Must have pretty bad taste in women ;>

[yankiboy]

Greetings from a Puerto Rican Islander supporter!

We have been looking forward to this match ever since we drew TFC. They were supposed to give us a friendly down in Bayamon as part of Marco Velez signing but they never came through.

We are really hoping to give the Reds two good matches. Many of us cheer for TFC because they gave Velez a chance and because we respect the flava that TO has brought to MLS.

WE LOVE MARCO VELEZ.

Marco Velez is without a doubt a very HUGE fish in a small pond which is just to say that the guy and his family (his mom, dad, brother, nephews, etc--STILL attend Islander home games) are avid Island supporters even though Marco has gone on to a bigger stage to ply his trade. He is an icon in Puerto Rico and some people who don't follow the sport know him from his media interviews.

He is the captain of the dormant Puerto Rican national team and the greatest player to date that the Island has produced in the modern era; some of the kids of Puerto Rican raised in the States and other places have the potential to be even better but thet are younger and not there yet).

You can ask my four year old daughter about Marco and she will tell you that he plays in the defence for TFC and that he is the captain of the Puerto Rican National Team and comes from Carolina, like her (even though she was born in the States--it's her mom who is also from Marco's hometown).

People use Marco as an example of hardwork and blazing a trail. So it will be a very fascinating homecoming for Velez. When he got red carded for the Alecko Eskandarian incident, he was flown home and honored at an Islanders game for his success with TFC.

This time will be very different. We LOVE Marco and many of us cheer for TFC but when the two sides face (unless your last name is alread Velez or you want it to eventually become Velez), we are pretty clear about where our support lies. When it is all over, no matter which way it turns out, we will still love Marco and I think that most of us will still follow TFC as long as he is there.

[yankiboy]

As far as out tactics go tonight, I expect it to be more of the same:

We play tight and organized, and it starts from the back. That is the Colin Clarke way.

Our keeper Bill Gaudette is just plain sick sometimes. Cristian Arrieta who is great going forward and is know to find the back of the net--is also an excellent lateral defender.

We will try to keep our shape and play the ball forward through Noah Delgado and Jonny Steele.

We will pick our moments to counter-attack. I know that Nicolas Addlery was mentioned as an offensive weapon but I would also say keep an eye out for one of our Hatian internationals, Fabrice Noel. He loves to run at guys. Kendall Jandeosingh also likes to run at guys and if he doesn't start then depending on how we are doing if going forward to score to win or try and salvage a draw is crucial, he may come off the bench.

Corners will and set plays in the area of the TFC attacking third will crucial. It wouldn't surpise me if a defender like Arrieta or John Krause manages to score or assist of a header.

Krause might be the defender who will be most responsible to try and stop DeRo. Maybe a guy like Sandy Gbandi or James Marcelin (the latter showed very good form playing for Haiti in Gold Cup this month--the best that I can remember him playing and he did stuggle in CCL matches before--maybe they will show us something extra.

I expect for us to struggle with the turf a bit. It is a different quality than what we play on in Montreal and Portland (we are not comfortable on the turf but your is of higher quality than those other places that I mentioned).

We will try and offer a workman like effort and try to head back to Bayamon with at least a draw. We will attempt to avoid chasing the game. Better to go home 0-0 then down 2-0 or 3-0.

So there you have it, the Yanki-Yank Preview from and Islander supporter's angle.

Good Luck to both teams.

[Ivan]

Thanks Yankiboy. I know there is talk of starting Gomez tonight in light of Marco's poor form of late, but you would have to think he would be pumped to play this series.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by yankiboy

I expect for us to struggle with the turf a bit. It is a different quality than what we play on in Montreal and Portland (we are not comfortable on the turf but your is of higher quality than those other places that I mentioned).

Er... Montreal has natural grass, and I believe has only played on artificial turf at home once in its 16 year history (the quarterfinal home game against Santos Laguna earlier this year).

You might mean Rochester.

Our turf is technically the highest quality of FieldTurf available, but it's been so overused (an average of 16 hours per day in the winter months) that it's badly worn down and likely in worse condition than Rochester's turf.

[yankiboy]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Er... Montreal has natural grass, and I believe has only played on artificial turf at home once in its 16 year history (the quarterfinal home game against Santos Laguna earlier this year).

You might mean Rochester.

Our turf is technically the highest quality of FieldTurf available, but it's been so overused (an average of 16 hours per day in the winter months) that it's badly worn down and likely in worse condition than Rochester's turf.

Definite Botch! So right you are--

I was thinking of the stadium formerly known as Rinos Stadium formerly PAETEC in Rochester now named Marna Auto so something or other...

My bad. Although you could NEVER confuse the two cities, I sometimes confuse the parks and clubs because both of them OWNED us in USL1 play until last year...

[yankiboy]

Anybody have any idea if DeRo is going to start or not? That could be key. Gerba worries me as well.

I could easily see a situation where Dicchio and one of our muchachos gets into it or with Guevara.

Our guys don't back down. I know that we are battle tested in this tournament but because it is an MLS club, they might be more wound up to try and prove something. Call it the USL chip on the shoulder syndrome... The truth is, our club always has something to prove when we play ininternational competition. Which is a good thing when they manage the emotions...

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by yankiboy

Anybody have any idea if DeRo is going to start or not? That could be key. Gerba worries me as well.

I could easily see a situation where Dicchio and one of our muchachos gets into it or with Guevara.

Our guys don't back down. I know that we are battle tested in this tournament but because it is an MLS club, they might be more wound up to try and prove something. Call it the USL chip on the shoulder syndrome... The truth is, our club always has something to prove when we play ininternational competition. Which is a good thing when they manage the emotions...

Expect our first team out there tonight against you guys.

Guevara, Serioux and Attakora will miss the game due to injury, though.

[yankiboy]

Rudi, thanks fo the injury info...