Whitecaps- TFC, June 2 - Pre-Game & (R)

[Vancouversoccerman]

Thought I'd get us past the CCL Spot and focus on Tuesday's HUGE match. It's definitely among the biggest played in both club's history.

I think man management has a huge role to play this weekend. Guevera, Wynne & Nash are all unavailable for Tuesday through call-ups & suspension. Marlon James is likely injured as well.

TFC is away to Houston Saturday.

Whitecaps are away to Portland Saturday.

Taking nothing away from the Leagues, it's pretty common for USL teams to play 2 in 3 nights. TFC has had a busy schedule as well.

Roster-wise, how should the two teams manage the weekend? Does TFC slack against Houston? Do the Whitecaps play younger players vs. Portland? Or can both teams play their best against both?

Montreal did our country proud in the CCL, but this may be the be the biggest domestic match played in our country in a long time.

Discuss.

[michaeltfc91]

This game should be a great one between the 2 best teams in the country. I would like TFC to bench some players against Houston, but I know they won't. I think TFC will use this line-up for both games:

VS. Houston

Barrett- Vitti

De Rosario-Guevara-Robinson-Cronin

Brennan-Velez-Serioux-Wynne

Sutton

VS. Vancouver

Dichio-Barrett

De Rosario-Robinson-Cronin-Ricketts-Vitti

Brennan-Serioux-Velez-Attakora

Sutton

They're not going to rest any players for the matches and Dichio and Attakora will fill in for Guevara and Wynne against Vancouver on international duty. THis works out well because Attakora is Canadian and Dichio wants to win this tourney too. They'll fill in good for us.

My prediction is 1-1

Gage in the 34th

De Rosario saves us in the 82nd

[rdroze]

quote:Originally posted by michaeltfc91

VS. Vancouver

Dichio-Barrett

De Rosario-Robinson-Cronin-Ricketts-Vitti

Brennan-Serioux-Velez-Attakora

Sutton

Ah, yes, the ingenious 4-5-2. That Cummins is one tricky fella; Carver would've never thought of that one.

[michaeltfc91]

quote:Originally posted by rdroze

Ah, yes, the ingenious 4-5-2. That Cummins is one tricky fella; Carver would've never thought of that one.

lol, take out Vitti / Ricketts

[TFC07]

The biggest game in our recent history? This game should be interesting. I think this game will end up in a draw.

[finchster]

Who's going? I just picked up some tickets for three friends and myself today. I will be the guy heckling Vitti relentlessly

[Vancouver Fan]

Both teams are sucking tonight. Clearly they must have Tuesday night on their mind. It's going to be fun and the weather should be a lot better than the Toronto home match.

[Lord Bob]

I am desperate to find a way to get out of work and find enough cash to make a jaunt over to stand in the south side. I am not hopeful.

[tmcmurph]

Yea this weekend was another "3 out of 9 points" weekend for canuck clubs. We'll get a 9 pointer sometime!

So neither the Caps or TFC looked good defensively Saturday and both will be missing important players.

Will this one be broadcast online or TV anywhere?

[rdroze]

Live on Rogers Sportsnet.

[Trident]

This the biggest Canadian vs Canadian club game THIS YEAR, and might be the biggest of these respective clubs ever, but it is most certainly not the biggest club game played in Canada, or even the biggest club game of 2009.

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Trident

This the biggest Canadian vs Canadian club game THIS YEAR, and might be the biggest of these respective clubs ever, but it is most certainly not the biggest club game played in Canada, or even the biggest club game of 2009.

Did anybody suggest otherwise?

[Trident]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

Did anybody suggest otherwise?

I didn't know in which sense the OP was using the word Domestic.

I think he meant canada v. canada, so I said it's the biggest domestic game this year, since I believe last years cup deciding montreal-toronto game was much bigger than the upcoming one, since it won the cup in the last game.

If he meant any game featuring a domestic club, then he is way off, both historically and even this year.

[Daniel]

@Trident

Chill.

This is a big game. Let people talk about it.

I know that Montreal's hoping to play spoiler on June 18 if Vancouver can get a result.

[Trident]

quote:Originally posted by Daniel

@Trident

Chill.

This is a big game. Let people talk about it.

I know that Montreal's hoping to play spoiler on June 18 if Vancouver can get a result.

Relax Daniel, I don't know why you seem to think I'm saying this to troll, because I'm not.

Time to rafa benitez out some facts:

Montreal Toronto was bigger last year(Canadian v Canadian)

Montreal-Santos Laguna was bigger this year(Canadian v. anyone)

It's ok Daniel, no need to say anything more.

[loyola]

Let's ignore the troll here and get back on topic.

This should be an excellent game, it's do or die for both teams, I'm looking forward to it!

I expect TFC to start Dichio as their target man, he was rested against Houston. IMO that was an indication of the importance of the game for TFC.

The other good thing about this game is we should have the chance to see 3 young Canadians prospects starting with Gage, Haber and Attakora. All 3 of them are U-20's and could be starting.

[RS]

I'd say Attakora will definitely start given that Wynne is on international duty and Robinson may be out due to a concussion.

[jimmynow]

this game is not do or die for both teams.

Vancouver must win. TFC can tie and still move on.

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090601&content_id=5084756&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

I believe they can still lose and move on with a win against Montreal, but I'd have to see the second tiebreak rules on that.

[Vancouversoccerman]

I have to say, after this weekend, tomorrow's match could be a race to the bottom. Both teams are in horrible form, and I think whoever can create something resembling a coherent attack will take it.

I don't have any written source, but I was talking with a Whitecaps staffer who mentioned that TFC can clinch with a draw, as the first tie-breaker is head-to-head record in the competition. There's nothing on the CSA site to back that up, though.

[Tuscan]

It's do or die for the Caps. Time for Haber to step up and make a name for himself. If Barrett scores again I will freak, let a Canadian decide this tourney! (Ok so if Dichio or another non-Canadian player barries one I won't be too irked, I just can't stand seeing Barrett on the field. Ever.)

[finchster]

quote:Originally posted by Vancouversoccerman

I have to say, after this weekend, tomorrow's match could be a race to the bottom. Both teams are in horrible form, and I think whoever can create something resembling a coherent attack will take it.

I don't have any written source, but I was talking with a Whitecaps staffer who mentioned that TFC can clinch with a draw, as the first tie-breaker is head-to-head record in the competition. There's nothing on the CSA site to back that up, though.

According to the CSA press release last year.

http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/media/viewArtical.asp?Press_ID=3107

All three teams will play four games - two at home and two on the road. There will be three points awarded for a win and one point awarded for a draw. In case two teams are tied on points after four matches, the winner will be decided first by goal differential, then if necessary by most goals scored, then if necessary by most away goals, then if necessary by the drawing of lots.

That says no, but according to the TFC website

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20090601&content_id=5084756&vkey=news_t280&fext=.jsp&team=t280

Toronto FC and Vancouver are tied on six points in the Nutrilite Canadian Championship but the Whitecaps have only one game remaining. A draw in Tuesday's match would leave both teams on seven points, but TFC would be crowned champions because the first tiebreaker is the greater number of points in matches between the two teams. Toronto FC beat Vancouver 1-0 at BMO Field last month with an early goal from Kevin Harmse. The Reds wrap up the tournament with a game in Montreal on Thursday, June 18th.

I think it is kinda BS they came up with this just this year with no notice

[Toronto Ruffrider]

A member of the Red Patch Boys sent a letter to Richard Scott of the CSA, inquiring about the tiebreaker procedure for this competition. Here's the procedure in full:

Teams are ranked according to...

1. Most points in all group matches;

2. If two or more teams are tied, then the team with the greatest number of points in matches featuring tied teams;

3. If teams are still tied, then the greater goal difference in matches featuring tied teams;

4. If teams are still tied, then the greater number of goals scored in matches featuring tied teams;

5. If teams are still tied, then greatest goal difference in all matches;

6. If teams are still tied, then greatest number of goals scored in all matches;

7. If teams are still tied, then drawing of lots.

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=13965

I don't know if this tiebreaking procedure was in place last year, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was and all of the press releases and wiki articles were wrong. Last year's procedure didn't make much sense to me, as I never understood how overall away goals could be used as a tiebreaker in a league-style competition. The procedure described above is more in-depth, in keeping with what a lot of leagues around the world use.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

quote:Originally posted by finchster

I think it is kinda BS they came up with this just this year with no notice

The lack of notice wreaks of BS, that's true. I'm glad I now know what the tiebreaker procedure officially is, but we should have all known a long time ago.

For what it's worth, tomorrow's game will almost certainly decide which team - Toronto or Vancouver - wins the Voyageur's Cup. Here are how the scenarios would work out:

1) Vancouver wins by two or more goals. In this case, Toronto could potentially tie Vancouver on overall points and it would be tied on head-to-head points, but it would lose on head-to-head goal differential. In short, Vancouver would clinch the V Cup.

2) Toronto draws or wins. In either case, Toronto would finish with at least as many points as Vancouver, but it would advance on head-to-head points. In short, a result would earn Toronto the V Cup.

3) Vancouver wins by one goal. This is the only scenario in which the Toronto/Montreal match will mean anything in the final standings. If Vancouver wins by one, Toronto will have to beat Montreal by three or more goals in order to win the V Cup on overall goal differential. If Toronto beat Montreal by two goals, then total goals overall would be used as a tiebreaker.

[Tonka]

quote:Originally posted by Toronto Ruffrider

The lack of notice wreaks of BS, that's true. I'm glad I now know what the tiebreaker procedure officially is, but we should have all known a long time ago.

For what it's worth, tomorrow's game will almost certainly decide which team - Toronto or Vancouver - wins the Voyageur's Cup. Here are how the scenarios would work out:

1) Vancouver wins by two or more goals. In this case, Toronto could potentially tie Vancouver on overall points and it would be tied on head-to-head points, but it would lose on head-to-head goal differential. In short, Vancouver would clinch the V Cup.

2) Toronto draws or wins. In either case, Toronto would finish with at least as many points as Vancouver, but it would advance on head-to-head points. In short, a result would earn Toronto the V Cup.

3) Vancouver wins by one goal. This is the only scenario in which the Toronto/Montreal match will mean anything in the final standings. If Vancouver wins by one, Toronto will have to beat Montreal by three or more goals in order to win the V Cup on overall goal differential. If Toronto beat Montreal by two goals, then total goals overall would be used as a tiebreaker.

I interpret it differently.

http://www.canadasoccer.com/news/viewArtical.asp?Press_ID=3669 based on this CSA story.

Head-to-head goal differential only comes into play if three or more teams are tied. Obviously we will not have three teams tied so no matter how much Vancouver wins by TFC will still have a shot at bettering their overall goal differential in Montreal.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Tonka

Yeah...

Vancouver wins by 1 - TFC must win by three in Montreal (Van would be +3, TFC +1)

Vancouver wins by 2, TFC must win by 5.

Etc.

I interpret it differently.

http://www.canadasoccer.com/news/viewArtical.asp?Press_ID=3669 based on this CSA story.

Head-to-head goal differential only comes into play if three or more teams are tied. Obviously we will not have three teams tied so no matter how much Vancouver wins by TFC will still have a shot at bettering their overall goal differential in Montreal.