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Whitecaps- TFC, June 2 - Pre-Game & (R)

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Richard Newbie

Richard

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quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead

Nothing personal, but if they are going to games regularly and supporting the team with their money they don't deserve much finger pointing or call outs from anyone, especially from those who don't attend games.

^ What he said.
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nolando Veteran

nolando

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Fair enough -- look, it's true that one fan might make a difference, but from my point of view, one of the only main drawbacks of watching any level of a game at Swangard, as much as I love the environs, is the typical type of person that goes to Swangard...you know, golf claps and "White" ... "Caps" cheerers...I think in this case I am entitled to criticise while being criticised at the same time, if that makes any sense. The lack of an atmosphere for a lot of meaningless league games is a real drawback, and whether or not I am there in voice is irrelevent.

I can't wait to see what kind of atmosphere the MLS Caps will have at home, but I fear the worst given so much of the current "fanbase" and the fact that, renovated or not, it will still be BC Place

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Grizzly Newbie

Grizzly

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Nolando, you are either a part of the problem or a part of the solution. If you are not attending games you are more a part of the problem than the people who are attending the games, quietly but nevertheless still attending them. There is no one quieter than someone who is not there. If you want to change the atmosphere at Swangard go to the games and do your part to make it louder. In Montreal as the supporter's section gets bigger and bigger we are noticing more sections starting to join in the chants where before people would hardly even pay attention to the games. The guys who have accomplished this didn't do so by sitting at home and bitching about a lack of atmosphere at the stadium, they did it by going to the games and changing the atmosphere at the stadium.

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nolando Veteran

nolando

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Look. I'm a diehard MNT fan and have never pretended to be a Caps fan, and have never desired to be one. For the record, I don't feel better or worse than them - international football is more my thing, I guess. I like watching the odd Caps game out of curiosity, especially when it involves a lot of Canadian talent.

I criticise the majority of Caps fans the same way that I might criticise the majority of Calgary Flames fans, or BC Lions fans, or Tragically Hip fans for that matter. The very demographics of the fan base, especially the kind of atmosphere they create as a collective whole, turns many people away from the club. I have no desire to be a part of the change, but that doesn't take away from the validity of my criticism, particularly when I have been there and seen it with my own eyes. It's like saying I can't offer informed criticism of my union or my government because I am not a sitting member. I watch the Caps (and TFC, for that matter)very closely from afar, a perspective that allows me to, once in a while, offer a perspective that some of those too close to the scene seem to have trouble seeing. I couldn't help but notice, for example, that the "I can't hear an effing thing, Shhhh" and "Quiet bus to Port Moody" chants are much more fitting for the seated Caps "fans" on the westside (95% of any Caps home crowd, in other words) than for the sprinkling of away fans who make it out to the odd game. Hate me for saying it but you know it's true.

The Caps FO is responsible for the main solution, and they could do that by intentionally catering to 18-40 y/o soccer-bred men like the main fan base of most proper football clubs, rather than attempting to draw out so many soccer Moms with bored little kids. Their advertising slogan may as well be, "Soccer. Good clean fun for the whole family." Granted, they seem to have made things easier for Southsiders over the last couple of years and maybe they are heading in the right direction so that you might have a stadium fuller of Southsider types years down the road. All I'm saying is that a stadium full of Southsiders would be a beautiful thing.

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Guest Jeffery S.

Guest Jeffery S.

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I have sat in the main stand at Swangard, and there are a few reasons it is so quiet. There are many very legitimate soccer fans, including knowledgable ones, but they are not going to go to the Southside where visibility is in fact pretty terrible. They actually do want to watch the match. You know this, and know that the soccer mom slight is not fair, when Vancouver faces a bad ref, because that is when the main stand does in fact jeer a lot. So there are a lot who are into it.

It is totally mixed, by age, type of fan, and they have never done much to promote a youth support stand, which would work wonders, Vancouver could do with more than one supporter group and one in the main stand.

Another problem: the main stand is a long way from the field, with the track it is hard to feel close to the action, you feel like you are shouting or cheering from a long way away. Cheers often fall flat. Those led by the silly mascots on the track in front are lame.

Another: there is no physical connection between Southside and the main stand, in fact the Southsiders tend to set up not behind the goal but beyond the goal from the main stand, beyond the far post as it were. The distance is far, and it is not easy to contage from a distance.

Another "problem": the Southside seems to have renounced the possibility of taking on itself the task of leading cheering and chants at Swangard for the WHOLE stadium. The rivalry is a bit infantile at times, I don't see how is benefits the Southside to have to mock the main stand. Those claiming there is nothing to be done are wrong, it is a question of will, and maybe a more mature vision. When Vancouver gets to MLS the whole way of viewing things has to change, IMO, the equivalent of the Southside has to see itself as the catalyst for the entire stadium, not its rival. We have seen at BMO and even Saputo that this can work, in part, not entirely satifactorily, but it can work. It works the world over as well, so there is no excuse. Am I saying that maybe some of the chants have to be general, repetitive, not x-rated and even a bit fluffy? Yes, definitely. Years ago, at Empire Stadium this was the role played by the section over the south-west corner, which was the driving force behind a lot of the audible support in the rest of the stadium.

On more stands: let's wait until we qualify, first, the whole discussion is foolish. Why should Montreal play hard when they are out, why couldn't Toronto come back. But if we do, let's see who the rival will be, before worrying about extra stands. Only if Vancouver does qualify and gets past the first round into the group stage, those three home matches vs. potentially incredible competition--maybe Mexican, maybe MLS--will mean the Caps will have to put something together fast between the first and third week of August.

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DarnCherry Newbie

DarnCherry

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As a born again newbie southsider, I've noticed that they have moved directly behind the goal, no longer right of the right post. There are only three sets of bleachers in the south ends, and they are all pushed up together behind the goal.

I've noticed no rivalry with the grandstand. I'm not sure how you can lead the grandstand in chants from that distance. That's not an excuse, it's a fact.

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Guest Jeffery S.

Guest Jeffery S.

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quote:Originally posted by Krammerhead

As a born again newbie southsider, I've noticed that they have moved directly behind the goal, no longer right of the right post. There are only three sets of bleachers in the south ends, and they are all pushed up together behind the goal.

I've noticed no rivalry with the grandstand. I'm not sure how you can lead the grandstand in chants from that distance. That's not an excuse, it's a fact.

Behind the goal low down is a ****ty place from where to see a game. Are the combination of being a vocal supporter and poor visibility really that necessary?

The Southside despises the main stand, that is a simple reality. It is apart, and that is part distance, and part being, thinking and acting apart. The main stand obliges by being despicable, but having that mascot makes it worse.

Neither of these set-ups has any future at BC Place.

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DarnCherry Newbie

DarnCherry

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quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Behind the goal low down is a ****ty place from where to see a game. Are the combination of being a vocal supporter and poor visibility really that necessary?

The Southside despises the main stand, that is a simple reality. It is apart, and that is part distance, and part being, thinking and acting apart. The main stand obliges by being despicable, but having that mascot makes it worse.

Neither of these set-ups has any future at BC Place.

I watched a couple of games from standing on those bleachers and have since moved down to stand at the front of the fence, both to have a better view and to avoid trying to balance on the rickety bleachers which tends to hurt my back.

I don't see how the setup could be the same at BC Place.

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Johnnie Monster Newbie

Johnnie Monster

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quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

The Southside despises the main stand, that is a simple reality.

Care to qualify this statement?

I'll agree that the Southsiders take the piss on the grandstand's hockey-style chants led by Winger, but there's no beef to speak of with regards to the individual fans. If anything we would much rather hear more noise coming from that lot.

When Southsiders get into cranky discussions concerning "soccer moms" it has nothing to do with the soccer moms personally, or anyone else in the grandstand for that matter. Our gripes have always been around the fact that the club spent years ignoring the obviously viable teen / adult male demographic and instead focused exclusively on "family oriented soccer-tainment" with clowns and balloons and salsa bands - stuff that has SFA to do with football.

The result? During those years the club saw negligible attendance gains and remains firmly shackled to its minor league, fourth tier sporting image.

There was also TREMENDOUS bitterness when our beer garden was suddenly opened to the masses and became a playground for unsupervised brats.... and the little haven we few traditional supporters had to enjoy ourselves was invaded by said soccer moms who had security on our asses about the language we were using.

But back on track - those beefs are done. The club has done extremely well these past few years in their dealing with us, and their staff now seem to understand the importance of football loyalty and fostering traditional supporters culture.

As for the grandstand... "give us a wave!"

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canadianfoot Newbie

canadianfoot

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I have seasons ticket in the Bronze section even thou I usually attend only half the games(the rest I give aay to friends) I must say I enjoy the game more there than in the Grand Stand. It's much closer to the action and to the Southside which keeps me always upbeat. I haven't seen any animosity between Southsiders and Grand Stand. But rmbr it is quite common in a stadium for different groups to have their unique chants and "force" the other sections to join in. Eg. asking a question & waiting for a predetermin answer. I believe that if one is able to get 20 guys into the bronze section for a few games you would soon have an extra section that would singalong. And rmbr the Bronze side is closer to the pitch than the Grand Stand.

As for MTL I am not worried I don't believe they will let TFC sin in 4goals. No way.......

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masster Mentor

masster

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quote:Originally posted by nolando

Fair enough -- look, it's true that one fan might make a difference, but from my point of view, one of the only main drawbacks of watching any level of a game at Swangard, as much as I love the environs, is the typical type of person that goes to Swangard...you know, golf claps and "White" ... "Caps" cheerers...I think in this case I am entitled to criticise while being criticised at the same time, if that makes any sense. The lack of an atmosphere for a lot of meaningless league games is a real drawback, and whether or not I am there in voice is irrelevent.

Nolando, it was nice to see you there on Tuesday and would love to have you in the Southside more often. Regardless of that fact though, I agree with all of your points.

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