The Success of the USL continues!

[Mpenza]

Oh but I agree. I want my club out of the USL ****hole asap before things collapse.

But there is a lot of jealousy in this thread.

[Mr.Impact]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

(sigh)

Put the damn scoreboard out of your mind. I'm not jealous of the Impact. I'm envious of what you got to experience Wed., but that has nothing to do with this conversation.

I just don't want Montreal fans thinking that the USL is good enough for the Impact. It's not. The Impact should be in MLS because MLS would offer the club a far better opportunity to grow long term. Don't be blinded by one party. Demand more. So far it just seems to me that most of you believe that what's happening now will happen every year. The evidence suggests otherwise.

Get a clue from a "real" journalist.

http://www.goltv.ca/blog/lee_godfrey_soccer_blog/76/

Lee is Spot on.

MLS yes, but not at all costs for the Montreal Impact.

[masster]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

[br

I care about the development of the game in this country and I think that the Impact need to be in MLS. Partly because I fear for the future of the USL – at least in its current form. So I don’t want people to be blinded by one win.

How will joining the MLS help the development of players in this country? Unless MLS changes their rules, joining the league could mean the end of the Whitecaps residency program!! Is that going to help development in this country??

[masster]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

My question is, if the rest of us (TFC fans) are supposed to accept the results of the CCL as a demonstration of MTL's superiority over TFC, in doing so, do we simply ignore the only head-to-head results between the two teams, in which TFC came out on top?

This is something I've wanted to ask for a while, and I'm genuinely curious as to the responses I'll receive. How can we ignore the only actual competition between the two sides?

So, if head to head results are what actually matter, I guess the Whitecaps are better than TFC.

I mean come on...I don't believe that, I'm just trying to prove how stupid some of your arguments are.

[masster]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

Convincing yourself that this run is evidence that the Impact are “better off” in USL, which many Montreal posters have done, is the equivalent of a middle age man convincing himself that he’s better off leaving his wife of 15 years to take up with a 22-year-old stripper because she flirted with him one day. It’s damn exciting, but ultimately it lacks substance.

You are wrong here. I agree that the MLS is a higher level league with better play overall, but it is the league that currently lacks (in fact, outlaws) substance. Obviously I am coming from a Vancouver perspective, but giving up autonomy, control of your players and your youth system, not keeping or being able to fully reinvest received transfer fees...these are all characteristics of a league that lacks substance.

[masster]

As an outsider to this Montreal v. Toronto rivalry, here are my opinions on USL v MLS:

1. Overall, MLS as a whole is a higher level of play than the USL.

- This is an undisputable fact and I don't think anybody has disagreed with

2. The top teams in USL could compete in MLS.

- This is the statement that seems to make the TO guys go crazy. I don't understand why. We are not saying that Puerto Rico or Montreal would win the MLS title. We are just saying that they won't be blown out of the water. They probably wouldn't even make the playoffs but they would be no worse then an expanssion team or the LA Galaxy last season.

3. No matter what happens to Portland, Vancouver, Montreal...the future of the USL is not in jeopardy.

- The league's history is longer than that of MLS. There are too many markets that want soccer for there not to be a place for the USL. With markets like Charleston and Cleveland and Austin, it will find its niche and continue to survive.

4. MLS has many positives that should be attractive to Montreal and Vancouver, but we should not ignore its drawbacks.

- The Whitecaps are currently negotiating with MLS about what inclusion in their league would mean for their residency system. Would they have to scrap the program? Would all players become league property? If so, would it be worth it? I can tell you that Bobby Lenarduzzi doesn't think so. I agree with him. If I were Greg Kerfoot, I would wait for MLS to get their stuff in order and start thinking like a real soccer league before I wrote a cheque for $40 million. Even if that meant I had to pay $50 million in the future, at that point, it would be worth it. Not now. Until then, I will be happy with the USL even if it means we never win another game in the Vs Cup.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Impact

What's a "real" journalist? One that you agree with?

[Grizzly]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

One who is unbiased or at least attempts to be so as much as possible. An editorialist may certainly display overt bias but a good journalist should not. Media Guy, I will really miss your TFC fan boy posts when I am in Mexico watching the best team in Canada play in the second leg of the CONCACAF Champions League quarterfinal!

Don't strain your eyes watching your tv/computer screen. As we like to sing in the UM kop:

Where is TFC?

Watching CBC!

This --> is Grizzly with his Mexican tan!

[Gordon]

Congrats to the USL clubs on their fine performance in the CONCACAF Cup thus far. Tragedy about the threadjack.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

Go back and show me how I've written anything in this thread that says anything about TFC. You frustrate me so much. THE IMPACT HAD MORE POINTS THAN TFC IN THE 2008 V-CUP. THEY WON THE TOURNAMENT ,THEREFORE THEY DESERVE TO BE CALLED CHAMPIONS OF CANADA. <Read that 146 times before you respond to another post of mine.

Christ. We're not even having the same conversation.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by RJB

Without a doubt Rudi, those results have to be ignored. Becuase if everyone says that TFC is better than Montreal based on those two results, then can't we also say that Vancouver is better than Toronto because of the 1-0 win and 2-2 draw?

Thankfully someone other than the bigoted neanderthal Mr. Impact has responded to me. I've had a pretty rough weekend, but I'll give it a go here.

RJB (and masster too, since you responded with a similar post), I never actually said that Toronto was better than Montreal. I'd just like to point that out.

My point was that I've been reading a few too many posts from Montreal fans talking about their superiority because of this Champions League run (and not necessarily on this board).

My contention was that, while Montreal has proven in the CCL to be better than a lot of people thought of them, their fans (*some* of them, not even a majority, just the vocal minority) shouldn't be so quick to pull out the superiority card when they couldn't even manage to beat TFC in two tries.

Yes, the same could be said of TFC vis a vis Vancouver, but as I've stated many times in this thread alone, TFC in '08 was at times really f*cking awful, and superior to very few teams (USL included).

quote:Originally posted by Grizzly

One who is unbiased or at least attempts to be so as much as possible. An editorialist may certainly display overt bias but a good journalist should not. Media Guy, I will really miss your TFC fan boy posts when I am in Mexico watching the best team in Canada play in the second leg of the CONCACAF Champions League quarterfinal!

His assertion that some MTL fans are now looking at the USL through rose-coloured glasses because of the CCL run is a very valid point of view, and completely separate from TFC.

The fact that a lot of you can't look past the fact that he has Toronto in his location is your problem, not his. It doesn't change the fact that the USL has had its chance to be the primary developmental tool for soccer in Canada, and has led us as a nation absolutely no where.

quote:Don't strain your eyes watching your tv/computer screen. As we like to sing in the UM kop:

Where is TFC?

Watching CBC!

So you guys sing about a team that isn't even participating in a game you are supposedly supporting?

Wow.

If people started singing about Montreal at a TFC home game vs. [Any team that isn't Montreal], I'd tell them to shut the hell up and pay attention to the actual game taking place in front of them.

That's just me though.

[SthMelbRed]

^all due respect to you, Rudi, but MediaGuy is treated like an arrogant, Toronto-centric twat because that is how he presents himself. If you read the first few posts in this thread, you will see that he alone caused it to to descend to the levels that it has. Appearing on Wayne's World: The Soccer Show is not enough to gain credibility as a poster, or as a self-proclaimed member of the fifth estate. You're wasting your time trying to defend that tool.

[Michael Crampton]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

So you guys sing about a team that isn't even participating in a game you are supposedly supporting?

Wow.

If people started singing about Montreal at a TFC home game vs. [Any team that isn't Montreal], I'd tell them to shut the hell up and pay attention to the actual game taking place in front of them.

That's just me though.

I'd still sing anti-London City songs at TFC if there were any people around who could join in.

[Keano]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

Thankfully someone other than the bigoted neanderthal Mr. Impact has responded to me. I've had a pretty rough weekend, but I'll give it a go here.

I replied to it a little further back... I don't blame for for not wanting to read back through that sea of nagging and bickering though

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by Keano

I replied to it a little further back... I don't blame for for not wanting to read back through that sea of nagging and bickering though

My apologies, Keano. I definitely did not mean to lump you in with Mr. Impact.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by SthMelbRed

^all due respect to you, Rudi, but MediaGuy is treated like an arrogant, Toronto-centric twat because that is how he presents himself. If you read the first few posts in this thread, you will see that he alone caused it to to descend to the levels that it has. Appearing on Wayne's World: The Soccer Show is not enough to gain credibility as a poster, or as a self-proclaimed member of the fifth estate. You're wasting your time trying to defend that tool.

I went to journalism school, make my living writing about sports and have been doing so for several years. In the past I have also covered news. For over a year I covered the native land standoff in Caledonia -- often as the only non-native there. I've interviewed Prime Ministers. I've reported from the press box at the ACC. Would you like to see some clips, son?

And all of that makes me no more a journalist than a blogger that reports from his bedroom. But, if you're looking for some sort of mythical "qualifications" there ya go.

As for It's Called Football. I do that because it's fun and it's something that I feel is desperately needed in this country. I'm sorry that you like to p iss on those that are trying to provide Canadian soccer fans with information and analysis. No one is getting rich by doing it.

[SthMelbRed]

^No, I only like to piss on arrogant twats such as yourself.

[Guest Jeffery S.]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

It may be one who admits when he is wrong, which you do not.

Almost two full weeks bad-mouthing the Impact, their crowd, the stadium, trash talking about them giving away tix free to kids. The most concerted effort to put down the rival team to make your own side look better. At least have the honesty and decency to admit you were totally out of line and completely wrong, apart from being insulting to any intelligent Canadian footie fan anywhere, instead of making excuses for yourself or looking to change the subject constantly.

[TT5]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

(sigh)

Put the damn scoreboard out of your mind. I'm not jealous of the Impact. I'm envious of what you got to experience Wed., but that has nothing to do with this conversation.

I just don't want Montreal fans thinking that the USL is good enough for the Impact. It's not. The Impact should be in MLS because MLS would offer the club a far better opportunity to grow long term. Don't be blinded by one party. Demand more. So far it just seems to me that most of you believe that what's happening now will happen every year. The evidence suggests otherwise.

What you are failing to comprehend is that the MLS may not be the best league around. Players that have played in both leagues have said that the difference in very slight, with the MLS having 1 or 2 more game-breaking type players, or stars, but the rest of the players are interchangeable. The MLS has a better marketing system that the USL. Also look at the CCL... 2 USL teams, 1 MLS team. I may be wrong, but didn't only 2 USL teams qualify? and didn't 4 MLS teams? I would argue that the MLS is a huge upgrade on talent over the USL, although it is marketed as the best in North America.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by Jeffrey S.

Jeffrey,

Are you the pot or kettle?

[Keegan]

The best players on the team don't always win. Player for player Canada is better than Honduras and Jamaica. Who proved to be the better team in qualifying?

Montreal has excellent coaching and if they could bring their current squad to MLS (thus breaking all roster rules) with their depth they would be VERY dangerous putting out good teams every match and not having tired players. I would bet Montreal would make the playoffs. Their CCL run is no fluke! Look at the results over and over again, they aren't surprising teams anymore they are just outplaying them.

[Sam]

quote:Originally posted by Keegan

The best players on the team don't always win. Player for player Canada is better than Honduras and Jamaica. Who proved to be the better team in qualifying?

Montreal has excellent coaching and if they could bring their current squad to MLS (thus breaking all roster rules) with their depth they would be VERY dangerous putting out good teams every match and not having tired players. I would bet Montreal would make the playoffs. Their CCL run is no fluke! Look at the results over and over again, they aren't surprising teams anymore they are just outplaying them.

I completely disagree with this one. Honduras had a much better side than Canada, but thats a whole different debate.

[Philippe]

Ok guys lets all hug and kiss. It is obvious we all love soccer and our home team.

I'm an Impact fan, and although I beleive many USL team would do just great in the MLS, I don't think USL is superior just because of the CCL and Nutrilite results. I know very well that next year might be TFC so let's not make a big deal out of this.

I do wish TFC, VWC and MTL could play in the same league one day...

ALLER L'IMPACT!!!

[SthMelbRed]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

[What's a "real" journalist? One that you agree with?

How about one who doesn't declare himself to be the single, greatest authority on MLS expansion in Canada, repeatedly state that MLS won't accept Vancouver based on its stadium plans, then turn around and write a blog declaring that Vancouver's stadium plan would actually be one of the best in the league when they get in once it became increasingly clear that the 'Caps were going to get in (my apologies for the run on sentence)?

[Trillium]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

My point was that I've been reading a few too many posts from Montreal fans talking about their superiority because of this Champions League run (and not necessarily on this board).

My contention was that, while Montreal has proven in the CCL to be better than a lot of people thought of them, their fans (*some* of them, not even a majority, just the vocal minority) shouldn't be so quick to pull out the superiority card when they couldn't even manage to beat TFC in two tries.

Yes, the same could be said of TFC vis a vis Vancouver, but as I've stated many times in this thread alone, TFC in '08 was at times really f*cking awful, and superior to very few teams (USL included).

His assertion that some MTL fans are now looking at the USL through rose-coloured glasses because of the CCL run is a very valid point of view, and completely separate from TFC.

The fact that a lot of you can't look past the fact that he has Toronto in his location is your problem, not his. It doesn't change the fact that the USL has had its chance to be the primary developmental tool for soccer in Canada, and has led us as a nation absolutely no where.

This is Grizzly posting on Trillium's computer and account.

First of all noone from the Ultras (Mr. Impact is less popular wth us than Media Fool) has been posting arrogant **** here declaring how great we are. We have only been responding to jealous posts from Media Fool and others making negative comments about us and the USL. If we are attacked we will respond.

We won the Canadian Championship competition fair and square. Everyone knew the rules beforehand and what it would take to win and we won. Some TFC fans claim they are better because we never beat them but by that logic another USL team is much better than they are. One could say the number of games was not sufficient to truly determine the best team but a group stage competition is less prone to upsets than a two leg head to head which is what some jealous TFC fans are claiming proves their superiority. I really don't understand what these fans are claiming. Are they completely math challenged? Does the 3rd place team in UEFA Champion's League group stage usually bitch if they beat the 2nd place team twice but lost all the rest of their matches?

Remember TFC barely scraped a win against us when we were a last place team in the USL and getting our ass kicked by every other team in the USL under a coach who had completely lost the team. Then TFC could not beat us at home knowing they needed a win with a biased ref from Toronto. This does not suggest superiority. Media Fool often says show me the proof and I did show him the proof that in the last two years of the US Open Cup the results did not show that MLS and USL had a 1st and 2nd tier relationship. Several MLS teams were eliminated by USL teams. USL improved much more than MLS did on the playing field in the last couple of years, previously I will admit MLS was much better. As an Impact fan I also noticed that a lot of other USL teams especially last year who we used to beat easly were far more competitive.

I personally think the MLS is the better league but the difference is not that big. The top USL teams could play MLS and do better than some of the MLS teams including TFC. Lower MLS teams like TFC would be mid-table in the USL. The problem in MLS is the salary structure. They spend most of their money on a few players who are admittedly better than anyone in USL but the rest of the supporting cast is suspect. That is why Beckham struggles with LA and plays well with Milan. I have said this before but an MLS team has 6 1st division players, 6 2nd division players and 6 3rd division players while a USL team has 18 2nd division players. If MLS started paying the lower players better money and improved their quality they would be far superior to USL.

MLS currently is only moderately better than USL but they are far better marketed and perceived as better. The two leagues have very different strategies and it could be argued which is better but as long as MLS is perceived as the better league that is a huge advantage and the reason why many USL teams want to switch. If the current USL teams wanted to stay in USL and grow this league philosophy I could argue for it's validity but since they do not want to do this I do see that MLS appears to have a better future than USL.

There have been a number of TFC fans who continually post negative and jealous comments about the Impact. Media Fool leads the pack. If you want to do so be my guest, it only looks bad on you. I doubt very many people on this forum who are not TFC supporters give Media Fool any credibility. I recognize that not all the TFC supporters have this attitude but most of those who don't have not chosen to respond on such threads. I think TFC has improved their team for the coming season but so have we and I certainly don't fear TFC when we are currently beating much better teams.

BTW Rudi, as much as I always hate to be teaching you about football culture, every team sings about its main rival regardless against who they are playing. For example I once attended 1860 Munich against Bochum and they sang against Bayern the whole game. The only time they even acknowledged Bochum was to sing "You are sh-it just like the FCB".